Powerful opening German moves?



  • I played the first turn of the second edition 1942, and noticed some opening German moves that seem overly strong to me. Anyone see the downside to any of these?

    1. Send 4 subs and the battleship to sea zone 7 and kill the British battleship and transport. This one is almost 100% odds. You could probably also get away with diverting 2 subs to zone 10 to take out the Brit destroyer and transport if you sent a couple fighters To sea zone 7. This move alone basically crushes the British Atlantic fleet before they even get to move.

    2. Send 2 tanks, 2 infantry and a bomber to Egypt via amphibious move, bringing transport and battleship to zone 17. This kills the Brit destroyer in the process. Odds are 80% or more for this to work. I had 2 ger tanks left afterwards. From here it’s easy to start rolling through Africa.

    3. With no British navy to threaten western Europe, begin moving almost all forces east to Russia.

    I hope there is a counter to this because it seems overly powerful to me.

    Zak



  • Not to knock your strat, but 4 subs going after the Brit BB/tpt seems like over kill, and I think you could make better use of them. Most ppl are attacking the US dd and 2 tpts w/2subs so it delays the US getting to Africa (if it works). The other 2 subs and air go after the BB/tpt. Just my 2 cents.

    BTW it would be a German cruiser, not Battleship coming out of the Baltic.

    I think Egypt is doable, I get odds just above 71%



  • 1.  How do you even get your BB past the UK Cruiser? Do you mean the Baltic CA? You don’t need to put your CA in such easy “whacking” distance…besides the CA should be used to hit Karelia G1.  The subs should foucs on the UK BB and either the UK or US DD/Trans fleet. Â

    2.  G1 Egypt is just over 70%…while it may be good to get rid of the FTR to help out Japan, you actually should only come out with 1 tank and the bomber…If you wait till G2, I’m sure Egypt will be a lot less empty and will be easier to hit without sacrificing so much.

    3.  You easily forget about the US.  Any threat in the Atlantic the Germans have can easily be neutralized US1 with 4DD.  I didn’t think of this (credit goes to Robbie358), but if you think about it, 5DD and CA can move to UK on US3, so therefore, UK3 could drop a nice fleet, especially if you only buy for India, an dump a fleet in UK SZ…Hit Russia hard fast, but keep planes/subs nearby to counter any UK2 drop.



  • @Mallery29:

    3. � You easily forget about the US. � Any threat in the Atlantic the Germans have can easily be neutralized US1 with 4DD. � I didn’t think of this (credit goes to Robbie358), but if you think about it, 5DD and CA can move to UK on US3, so therefore, UK3 could drop a nice fleet, especially if you only buy for India, an dump a fleet in UK SZ….Hit Russia hard fast, but keep planes/subs nearby to counter any UK2 drop.

    Figure UK1, you get 2FTR (don’t lose your other two FTRs)…UK2, spend only for India (unless you need to get one FTR back), knowing that you’ll need 28 for UK3, then on UK3, drop 2 CVs and load them up with your FTRs…so on US3 you have 5DD/CA/2CV/4FTR…pretty good meat shield right there…



  • @Mallery29:

    @Mallery29:

    3. �� You easily forget about the US. �� Any threat in the Atlantic the Germans have can easily be neutralized US1 with 4DD. �� I didn’t think of this (credit goes to Robbie358), but if you think about it, 5DD and CA can move to UK on US3, so therefore, UK3 could drop a nice fleet, especially if you only buy for India, an dump a fleet in UK SZ….Hit Russia hard fast, but keep planes/subs nearby to counter any UK2 drop.

    Figure UK1, you get 2FTR (don’t lose your other two FTRs)…UK2, spend only for India (unless you need to get one FTR back), knowing that you’ll need 28 for UK3, then on UK3, drop 2 CVs and load them up with your FTRs…so on US3 you have 5DD/CA/2CV/4FTR…pretty good meat shield right there…

    Streaming again…my apoligies…if Germany had 2 Bomber, 3FTR, 2 subs (just random combo I had), it’s 97% in favor of the Allies.



  • Yeah, my mistake, I meant Baltic cruiser, not BB.

    Not sure what you mean by 4 USA DD in turn 1.  The us has almost no fleet in the Atlantic at the start.  And I’m not forgetting about the USA, but in my experience it takes about 4 turns before they can start dropping  significant amts of stuff in Europe, and Russia can sometimes be dead or nearly dead by that point.

    Wrt to Egypt , I am surprised to hear that it opens up on g2.  Do you tend to just evacuate and leave it to the Germans?  in my experience if Germany cracks Africa, they become too powerful, and the Brits lose too much income to be effective.

    I dunno, it seems like the allies are setup to get absolutely creamed on turn 1, and I found it hard to recover.  I should also mention that Japan took all 3 USA held china territories on j1 with relatively light losses.



  • I would expect J1 to hit China hard…
    I’m saying US1 buy 4DD…you take the CA and 4DD (5 if G1 didn’t take it out) and your 2-3 trans with you to Canada on US2, then on US3 (after UK3 buy of 2 CV), you position your US fleet with the UK fleet.  As I said, the Germans will have to muster a hell of a lot to hit it.  Anything off the Russian front is a gift to the Allies. If you wait to G2, you have a BB, 3inf/2tank/1art…I think the Brits would use the FTR against the E. Indies fleet, so I would expect the tank and art to disperse… you are going to lose Africa, the question is when do you get it back?  The tank would be better served in India, and make a stand there (and if the UK fleet was successful in the Pacific, then give headaches to Japan).  Allies got creamed in 42.1, so why change anything?  If Germans aren’t in position to stop the 5DD/CA/2CV/4FTR on G4,  then they’re risking a lot…because more UK/US ships will be on the way…so France better be heavily stocked with D.  Force the Allies to risk Belgium sacking units, head North complicating the supply lines, or force them to go via Africa (be wary of Med though).



  • 2 Subs are going to beat that lone US destroyer every day of the week.
    The US atlantic fleet might as well start on the sea floor.



  • @oztea:

    2 Subs are going to beat that lone US destroyer every day of the week.
    The US atlantic fleet might as well start on the sea floor.

    I agree. Not sure why they give the US 2 tpts just to get sunk. If it was only one tpt then it might get spared. Germany might hit the Canadians instead sometimes.

    A good fix IMO would be to split the subs. Slide one to sz8 (can still reach all UK stuff). Then cut one US tpt. Maybe even swap the US dd for the cruiser so the sub gets a surprise attack. With only 1 sub able to hit the US mini fleet it’s less of a target.

    BTW the unthinkable happened in our 2nd game (still playing it). The US tpts survived the 2 subs. Both subs, and the US dd went down. It was riveting LOL

    I know this will only happen like 1 out of 8 times (mutual destruction and tpt survives)



  • Or move that lone US transport to SZ 18 (almost the Gulf)….where a tremendous amount of shipping was lost during the early stages of the war.

    If Germany goes full bore, it can kill every allied vessel between the Panama Canal and the Suez canal on G1.
    1 SS attacks SZ 11
    1 SS attacks SZ 10
    Fighters and subs attack SZ 7
    Fighters attack the cruiser in SZ 14
    Battleship attacks the destroyer in SZ 17



  • I don’t know why any of this US fleet issues is new stuff…it virtually the same, except it was a CA in 42.1, not a DD protecting the US fleet.  Still, even if it is sunk G1, a placement of 4DD with the CA NCM up there will make them run like hell…in 42.1, the sub that killed the US fleet was dead US1…it’s just a delay of one turn.



  • Oz, Splitting the US tpts could work. Germany could still attack them both, w/1 sub killing lone tpt, and 1 sub vs 1 dd & tpt isn’t a sure thing. Its about 40% win, 40% lose and 20% mutual destruction (tpt survives). So its really 60% stacked against Germany, so on second thought I’m not sure I like that solution.

    I think they wanted the US to be set back to give Germany some time in the Med, and to get UK on its heels. I don’t think they wanted a US tpt to survive G1 on the Atlantic side. I think its silly to give them 2 tpts to begin with though just to get sunk, but if one survives it could throw things off.

    Mallery29, that’s all fine and dandy, but spending everything in the Atlantic will cause problems w/Japan in the Pacific. I guess you can pull everything back and just let Japan run wild for a couple turns. Maybe you can slow them down after you get stuff going in Europe (to early for me to tell).



  • That’s where the India complex has to be THE factor…put a hole in the Japanese fleet and build build build build in India…make it so tough for the Japanese to come through…and this only needs to be one buy for US in Atl to offset the German threat…once US1 has turned the sub threat back home, the US can position itself in different ways…I’d like to see how it plays out, but now that the US fleet isn’t destined to die turn 1, it does slow Japan down…I just hate trying to split money in 42 play…42.1 was all in to a side…I realize with the Russian front changed up and the SZ change, The gringos have more precedence to put money into the Atlantic more at least on turn 1 to keep the German planes off Russian lines more…I still would have 10 after my 4DD, so a DD or sub could go on the other side, but, I could see another transport as well in the Atl…



  • @Rad_King:

    I played the first turn of the second edition 1942, and noticed some opening German moves that seem overly strong to me. Anyone see the downside to any of these?

    Also remember this is a game of time…the axis are supposed to be strong…quick victories favor the axis…long games favor the allies. I’m not saying go prevent Defense for the allies (cause we all know that never works in football anyways), but the allies have to be VERY careful in what battles they choose in the beginning…Russians and India need to make use of the art units to make their small battles count for a lot…until the dirty americans can get involved.



  • @Mallery29:

    @Rad_King:

    I played the first turn of the second edition 1942, and noticed some opening German moves that seem overly strong to me. Anyone see the downside to any of these?

    Also remember this is a game of time…the axis are supposed to be strong…quick victories favor the axis…long games favor the allies. I’m not saying go prevent Defense for the allies (cause we all know that never works in football anyways), but the allies have to be VERY careful in what battles they choose in the beginning…Russians and India need to make use of the art units to make their small battles count for a lot…until the dirty americans can get involved.

    it has always been survive and get built up for the allies. the axis better make gains early. A&A has always been exactly as you said.



  • In my first game Japan was going for Hawaii for the win, and forces exchanged on the island, leaving the US in control.
    US fleet built up, then retook the sea zone with only a battleship remaining and put some men on the island to hold off the next invasion.

    However, this victory seems like it will be short lived.
    The US has only 1 transport and 2 INF in Canada, and the UK only has 1 transport and needs to start trading Paris. back and forth.
    Japan already has India.
    And Germany is about to gain the upper hand and take West Russia now that the infantry stacks have arrived, thus sealing in Moscow.

    its a really tight game, but the Germany has almost all of Africa, and is an economic juggernaut.
    All the allies can do is hope to stave off defeat, the chance to win looks really far out there.



  • Kind of curious to see how much longer the Allies can really hold out….Unless the US can make a strike for the Phillipines, victory seems all but inevitable for the Axis…I have warmed up to this Honolulu VC…while I won’t play VCs, it makes the Pacific more interesting than the predecessor.



  • The US can’t do anything but trade boats with Japan.
    And they can’t send more than a trickle to Europe, to help the beleaguered UK.

    Germany only lost one sub (in SZ 7) on G1, and UK attacked the Japanese fleet near java and only killed the carrier.
    Very bad game for the allies.



  • @oztea:

    The US can’t do anything but trade boats with Japan.
    And they can’t send more than a trickle to Europe, to help the beleaguered UK.

    Germany only lost one sub (in SZ 7) on G1, and UK attacked the Japanese fleet near java and only killed the carrier.
    Very bad game for the allies.

    Yeah that UK1 attack on the Japanese fleet can go really bad. I think it may be better for the UK to pull back and weather the storm to conserve her power for later. It looks real enticing though. Think you said it best when you called it a trap  😮

    We have played a couple games of Anniversary over the last week and I would point out that in the 42 set-up the German subs are split so only one can hit the US mini fleet off the coast of E US (they can’t even hit it in the 41 version of AA50 for good reason). I know its comparing apples to oranges, but thought I’d throw it out there. I don’t own the original Spring 42 version, so not having played it I don’t know if both German subs could hit the E US mini fleet.



  • Wild Bill, in 1942 1st ed. I believe Germany only has 1 sub in the atlantic instead of two so it’s a more riskier attack.



  • Ok then 2 subs in 1942SE going after the Americans is lame then. So spiting the subs (keeping one in sz9, and the other goes to sz8), and removing one US tpt would be one solution.



  • @oztea:

    The US can’t do anything but trade boats with Japan.
    And they can’t send more than a trickle to Europe, to help the beleaguered UK.

    Germany only lost one sub (in SZ 7) on G1, and UK attacked the Japanese fleet near java and only killed the carrier.
    Very bad game for the allies.

    I’ve played twice as Allies with the US going full Pacific and won. First one the UK attacked SZ17 instead of 37 and sunk the German Med fleet, second one the UK attacked SZ37 and won. On both scenarios Japan just runs into a lot of problems trying to conquer the Indian IC and to stop the US in check. On Europe Germany went naval on both and the UK merely bought fighters (and ground units for India) and forced it into a naval race which helped the Soviets in preventing Germany deploying enough ground forces to control Karelia.



  • @IKE:

    Wild Bill, in 1942 1st ed. I believe Germany only has 1 sub in the atlantic instead of two so it’s a more riskier attack.

    Not riskier…either you hit the cruiser or you don’t…it’s 50/50…good enough odds to stymie the allies.



  • Hobbes, played first 42 as the Axis…I think the only thing Japan should/can do is take the China and Russian back yard (the 3IPCs), and just stalemate the Indian complex…from there on out, continue to defend against India and build naval to offset the American builds…any offensive attack against India would weaken Japans defense against India…as long as UK and Japan are trading IPC at this standoff, that means less IPCs being used against Germany’s West Front.  I am kind of curious what you are using for the first 3 Japan turns.  I couldn’t put myself in a position to take anything besides the Russian/Chinese territories and left Germany to do the work.  J1 was 2Trans/CV (saved 2), then I started pouring troops in (3inf/2art/tank)…I kind of got owned going after the American plane in China (he rolled the 2(2s), and the 1(4) taking both my inf and a FTR…I though that would cost me the Pacific, but I overcame the American Naval (wasn’t full blown KJF, but was a significant force).



  • May have to refine my buys on G1…little bitter about the UK Bomber/DD destroying my BB…knew this would happen.  had 3inf/2art/tank/bomber/SS…I guess this is where Ukraine is going to come into play…I anticiapted Russia going for Ukraine, didn’t, so I had my plane…now if I keep that plane, I can afford to possibly sack one against the Brit CA in the Med and say f-it and go for Egypt anyways.  Even if I escape with just the Bomber, I’m going to consider that a victory.  I thought about still doing G2 Egypt by adding a DD to prevent the DD fighting my BB, but I don’t want the UK fleet in the med either (while this would GREATLY help my Jap strat, I can’t handle uncontested entry…) at least if they wanted to go after the BB, they risk losing 1-2 units to gain entry into the Med, and I can sack that… Will have to play a few more times, but was very happy about controlling the Atlantic (America got greedy trying to go after all my subs with its 4DD…NEVER leave your wingman…DDs got wiped out and Atlantic stayed mine for a long time).  Time for nap!


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