The US tries to rule the world… but chaos seems to follow



  • well friends, the list is long. wherever the US went to ‘sort things out’ and clean house with military means, all that it brought is more chaos. lets look at the list of achievements:

    • after WWI: US decided not to joing the League of Nation it forces on the rest of the world and therefore undermines long lasting peace efforts.

    • after WWII: US commitment to nuclear weapons starts the atomic arms race, which on several occasions leads to an out-break of nuclear war (e.g. cuba missle crises)

    also: Establishment of the state of Israel, and you can see the success of that every week-end, when some idiot blows himself up in a bus!

    • Vietnam: the US supports a dictatorial south vietnam regieme, which leads to a civil war that costs 10000’s of lives

    • Afghanistan: the taliban are gone… from the surface but there is still no stable order.

    • latest example: Iraq, motivated by cheap oil, americans and iraqis have to die, and the dying continuous.

    So then… the US is the only power that can make reasonable military and foreign political adventures. but as the list suggests wouldnt the world really be safer, if the US would build strong realtions with its partners
    and use its strength to build consensus?

    SO what are the answers???



  • Is this supposed to be a poll, or are those bullet points? I think those are all valid statements. As far as your list, I guess I agree with you there as well, except for the “nuclear war” thing-it’s only a nuclear war if you actually use the weaponry. As far as answers, we already know that no answer is going to please everybody, so we have to go with what we feel is best. (Applies to everyone.) And chaos…well, it’s been a while since I’ve been in school, but I remember entropy: the tendency of a system towards disorder/chaos. So maybe there’s nothing we can do about it, except hope/pray that everything turns out okay in the end.



  • also: Establishment of the state of Israel, and you can see the success of that every week-end, when some idiot blows himself up in a bus!

    Ummm… this was mainly the work of UK, not USA…

    Anyways, I’m really not keen on these types of topics. How can we really know how shitty this world is (if at all), without first experiencing other consequences that could’ve been worse, better, or even the same. There’s no way of knowing.



  • @Grigoriy:

    And chaos…well, it’s been a while since I’ve been in school, but I remember entropy: the tendency of a system towards disorder/chaos.

    We had that in different threads already.
    The increase of entropy is only “mandatory” for closed systems, which means systems where no energy is put into. Surely, our world does not classify as ‘closed’.



  • We had that in different threads already.

    Sorry, I missed those threads.

    The increase of entropy is only “mandatory” for closed systems, which means systems where no energy is put into.

    Just because it’s not mandatory, doesn’t mean it can’t still happen.

    Surely, our world does not classify as ‘closed’.

    Well, that all depends on your point of view. 🙂



  • @Grigoriy:

    The increase of entropy is only “mandatory” for closed systems, which means systems where no energy is put into.

    Just because it’s not mandatory, doesn’t mean it can’t still happen.

    But that would release energy into the system. And systems strife towards the point of least energy. This contradicts an increase.

    Surely, our world does not classify as ‘closed’.

    Well, that all depends on your point of view. 🙂

    Hmmm…… well parts of the world seem to be closed … to reason and such :)… but all in all, we as the planet earth have the sun which increases its entropy quite a lot each day, and sends the energy to us, fortunately. … which then easily can be converted to oil or 230 V 🙂 (that was for LJ, in case he reads this 😉 )



  • Hmmm…… well parts of the world seem to be closed … to reason and such … but all in all, we as the planet earth have the sun which increases its entropy quite a lot each day, and sends the energy to us, fortunately. … which then easily can be converted to oil or 230 V (that was for LJ, in case he reads this

    Well, I was going to argue that the Earth, if viewed from space, would present a closed system, but your “sun” rebuttal closes that off…could I present the Solar System as a system that’s closed?



  • Yup. THe solar system can be taken as closed. The impact of other energy (from other stars) is rather small.


  • Moderator

    Should the US rule the world?
    Can’t get your stance…



  • My stance? Why would we want to bother with the rest of the world? We can’t even deal with our own sh*t. If any country (with a large enough population) could successfully claim that they were, in all respects to a country, perfect, then maybe, just maybe, they might be worthy enough to transfer their system to the world. Then agian, probably not. 😉


  • Moderator

    talking to hanso… but thanx for the input



  • This was too much fun…
    @Haso_d_foo:

    after WWII: US commitment to nuclear weapons starts the atomic arms race, which on several occasions leads to an out-break of nuclear war (e.g. cuba missle crises)

    **Several!?!**Since when does ‘one’ equate to “several!?!” Define the word and give more than one example.
    @Haso_d_foo:

    Establishment of the state of Israel, and you can see the success of that every week-end, when some idiot blows himself up in a bus!

    Previously discounted.
    @Haso_d_foo:

    Vietnam: the US supports a dictatorial regime, which leads to a civil war that costs 10000’s of lives.

    Thanks to a Democrat named JFK who moved the military from an advisory roll to that of active combatants!
    @Haso_d_foo:

    Afghanistan: the taliban are gone… from the surface but there is still no stable order.

    Did the American colonies have a “stable order” after July 4, 1776? H-E- double toothpicks NO! They didn’t even have a working governmental structure planned until 1787(The Declaration of Independence, which was not ratified until 1789!) So you give a 16th century theocratic society one year to jump to the equivalent of a 20th century republic?(I’m not gonna expect it to be as wonderful as France :roll: ) Think again.
    Haso_d_foo"] …Iraq, motivated by cheap oil, americans and iraqis have to die, and the dying continues.
    What? So you object to to an attempt at peace that costs about 24,000 fewer Iraqis lives a year? However, regretfully it has cost as many American lives since March(5 months) as the American military loses every year in training accidents!

    Case dismissed.

    History does not long entrust the care of freedom
    to the weak or the timid
    . - Dwight Eisenhower



  • Maybe Im interpreting this wrong, but the US were the first to have the Atomic Bomb, so it was really Russia’s commitment to nuclear weapons. not to mention that the very term “arms race” makes it between more than one country. in this case, Russia and the US. at the time, both Super Powers.

    As to Afghanistan not having social order, talk to El Jefe, than look at Japan and Germany. Nuff said.


  • Moderator

    uh Janus…. the US forced the Russians into a nuclear arms race…



  • well my knowledge on the subject is not great, perhaps youd care to enlighten me?


  • Moderator

    By the time the Atom bombs were dropped we were in affect out of allied status and into Neutral(russia and US)… the atom bombs gave Russia the scare to start create them (atom bombs)



  • thats not forcing them into it. and to my knowledge, the crises derived from the nuclear weapons were the fault of Russia, not the US



  • The Soviets weren’t in on the Bomb project, but they knew something was up. Soviet intelligence penetrated the Manhattan project as early as 1943. (rememberr Julius and Ethel Rosenberg? They were executed for passing atomic secrets to the Soviets). The Cambridge spies- MaClean, Burgess, and Philby all highly placed in British diplomatic and intelligence circles passed on atomic secrets to the Soviets as well.


  • Moderator

    @Janus1:

    thats not forcing them into it. and to my knowledge, the crises derived from the nuclear weapons were the fault of Russia, not the US

    who showed that they had them first…



  • So what? I created the world’s first Tank. Does this mean I’m directly responsible for the arms race that follows it?



  • No, but it could mean you’re responsible for breaking the stalemate in the trenches and ending World War I… :lol:


  • Moderator

    I sayed SHOWED



  • i never do this….but…

    I sayed

    You sayed?

    I cant resist……

    “Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?”

    😄


  • Moderator

    LOL



  • the US is the most generous nation on the earth.

    Hanso didn’t mention the Marshall plan which was millions spent to help rebuild Europe after WW2. We even gave Marshall plan $$ to the Germans and the Japanese. (The Soviets opted not to participate).

    Afghanistan- do you really think it is better to leave the Taliban in charge?

    Vietnam- do you really think Norht Viet nam was a democratic nation?

    Hanso forgets all the time the US has intervened to help Muslim people in the last 10 years. Ethiopia, Somalia, Kuwait, Serbia, Iraq…

    Dude, get it right!


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