Face-to-Face Tournament Rules

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    @smo63:

    But I am not sure why there is so much negativety when it comes to the discussion on the boards vs. when one talks about it FTF.  Again, I believe MM might have said it somewhere bad in a thread long ago, it sure is nice to hide behind the screen of your computer when one really doesn’t know understand the concept of what is being discussed? :mrgreen:

    Part of it is Internet snarkiness.

    The other part is the problem with medium and circumstances of posting online. I wouldn’t say that people are hiding but they are hidden by some amount of anonymity and more do by physical distance. Online you have less of a personal relation with the folks on the other end. When there is disagreement, the issues of this really come out. Everybody, has a few voices online. One is fairly close to our conversational voice, which peeks out every so often. Another is the distortion of your true voice, i.e. “that’s not what I meant when I said …” voice. It’s usually more harsh and seemingly more negative. One more is the reaction to somebody else’s distorted voice an this is where tension grows and sparks fly.

    It’s tough to get it right. I think we’re doing a better job by doing things that would be redundant in a face-to-face conversation: saying you grok what the other person said, allowing people to have opinions, realizing that you just might disagree and there’s nothing that can be done, and allowing blue sky brainstorming. If it ain’t broke, that’s not a fun conversation so poke holes, brainstorm, and maybe we just end up at square one but in the process maybe we learn something. Maybe somebody who has never experienced these things comes along and learns something too. A newcomer may have all of these questions and more but the online public discussion may help them understand why.


  • Well, I guess it was too good to be true, eh?

    We had a wonderful GenCon with events going on non-stop and tons of new faces. Yup, we got a lot of feedback on things - most of it good and constructive. New faces will provide that. And yet, then, here, I get to read about all the things that were wrong or that sucked or that people who were not even there did not like….sigh…

    I think we have covered how playing FTF is a LOT different than playing on-line and why the two have to be set up differently. Further, I think we have covered why playing in a FTF tournament with limited amounts of time is a LOT different as well from playing ‘regular’ FTF.

    Q - you said that you don’t like this or that and you will never play in the tournaments because they are not set up exactly as you would want them to be. Well - that is YOUR loss. You miss out on a lot of fun that many other people who realize and accept certain parameters need to be in place. I hate to say this - I really do - but there is a large part of me that hopes you DO never play - because I would not want to have to listen to you, in person, complain about how much the tournament you just played in sucks so badly.

    You also say that Greg (and by proxy, me) have not given you a good reason to NOT use computers and dice calculators at FTF events. I’ll take the low hanging fruit and respond by saying you have provided NO good reason to do so. But, if you insist…

    a) it will slow the games down as people watch the other team input 20 different combinations of one less infantry or one more tank over and over to get to the exact balance they want.

    b) there is no room at the tables for anything except MAYBE a smart phone or iPod / iPad. Things are already cramped in many cases - having a space for a laptop (or two) just isn’t realistic in most cases.

    c)  Using a computer to make decisions for you rather than on their own SKILL at playing the game. That may be my “a-ha” moment. Part of the SKILL of playing A&A is figuring out what to buy and when and what to attack with and when. Using a computer to make those decisions for you seems to cheapens this. You talk about ‘purist’ form of playing the game - I am pretty sure using a calculator to determine how you play the game is kinda far from ‘pure’.

    d) Lastly, and this will sound arrogant - Greg has been running A&A tournaments without them for 19 years now and with the exception of a few people who have never even played in his events, there ain’t a lot of discussion and pushing to do it. You know - the ole ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ concept. Greg can say we are not going to use them because I think he has earned that right.

    I think I can speak for Greg when I say that our biggest concerns coming out of GenCon were a) formatting tournaments in such a way to allow people to play in more than one if at all possible b) changing the format of the qualifiers for the AA50 tournament in some way c) determining what changes to the AA42 2nd Edition tournament are needed (if any) based on our feedback and d) if we should add a 1941 tournament to the schedule next year and if so how to prevent ourselves from losing what little sanity we have due to too many things going on at once!

    I hope someday you do decide to play in the tournaments and accept them for what they are - an imperfect - but damn fun way to spend a weekend (and I defy you to find ANY GM at GenCon or otherwise that provides as much in prizes and give-aways that Greg does - certainly not when you consider the overall population of players in all his events).

    If we truly got a sense that we would somehow grow our ranks by making changes to the way things are done, do you not think we would do that? I can GUARANTEE you based on doing this with Greg for 5 years now and talking to many, many players, that adding things like chess clocks, battle simulators and the like will most likely drive people AWAY from the events, not draw them IN.

    I am self-imposing an end to more of this type of discussion because I think I have said everything I can on the topic. Know that your comments are always welcome - but that they would be much better received if they were provided in a more constructive fashion.

    Now - where did I put my dice - still haven’t found them from unpacking!!

    MM


  • My comments in BLUE

    Q - you said that you don’t like this or that and you will never play in the tournaments because they are not set up exactly as you would want them to be. Well - that is YOUR loss. You miss out on a lot of fun that many other people who realize and accept certain parameters need to be in place. I hate to say this - I really do - but there is a large part of me that hopes you DO never play - because I would not want to have to listen to you, in person, complain about how much the tournament you just played in sucks so badly.

    Believe me, if I play it will only be because I agree to the terms of the tournament.  At this point, I am not satisfied with them.  G40 seems to be OK- mainly because I created it.  I’m entitled to my opinion, so I don’t understand why you have to bash one’s freedom of speech. :?

    You also say that Greg (and by proxy, me) have not given you a good reason to NOT use computers and dice calculators at FTF events. I’ll take the low hanging fruit and respond by saying you have provided NO good reason to do so. But, if you insist…

    a) it will slow the games down as people watch the other team input 20 different combinations of one less infantry or one more tank over and over to get to the exact balance they want.

    That is assumption- allow it for a year and then judge not the other way around.

    b) there is no room at the tables for anything except MAYBE a smart phone or iPod / iPad. Things are already cramped in many cases - having a space for a laptop (or two) just isn’t realistic in most cases.

    No space???  False- it can be downloaded as an app on your phone.  In fact, if I played with one, I would teach and allow my opponent to use it- its simple.  Very weak point you make here.

    c)  Using a computer to make decisions for you rather than on their own SKILL at playing the game. That may be my “a-ha” moment. Part of the SKILL of playing A&A is figuring out what to buy and when and what to attack with and when. Using a computer to make those decisions for you seems to cheapens this. You talk about ‘purist’ form of playing the game - I am pretty sure using a calculator to determine how you play the game is kinda far from ‘pure’.

    Again, I just don’t see it that way.  It takes nothing away from the “SKILL” of anything.  I see calculators were allowed in the tournys (at least according to djensen’s pics)- battle calcs are only faster.  You guys have already allowed calculators. :?  As far as “pure”- ok, I agree, but “pure” is not playing AA up to only 4-6 rounds- that’s like playing a half of a game.  OK, so the winners are “champions” of a “half-game”.  At least that’s the way I see it.

    d) Lastly, and this will sound arrogant - Greg has been running A&A tournaments without them for 19 years now and with the exception of a few people who have never even played in his events, there ain’t a lot of discussion and pushing to do it. You know - the ole ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ concept. Greg can say we are not going to use them because I think he has earned that right.

    I agree, its his tourny- he has the final say.  If you really don’t like my comments or criticisms then you guys shouldn’t let it bother you so much- or don’t read the forums.  Instead, you give even more attention to it.  Please, stop the hate.  Its not productive.  I’m entitled to my opinion as you yours.  We agree to disagree.  Let it go.

    I hope someday you do decide to play in the tournaments and accept them for what they are - an imperfect - but damn fun way to spend a weekend (and I defy you to find ANY GM at GenCon or otherwise that provides as much in prizes and give-aways that Greg does - certainly not when you consider the overall population of players in all his events).

    Wait a minute, didn’t you just say you DIDN’T want me to come.  A little emo here maybe.  I might come.  If I come and play then that means I will have agreed with the tourny conditions.

    If we truly got a sense that we would somehow grow our ranks by making changes to the way things are done, do you not think we would do that? I can GUARANTEE you based on doing this with Greg for 5 years now and talking to many, many players, that adding things like chess clocks, battle simulators and the like will most likely drive people AWAY from the events, not draw them IN.

    Chess clocks yes only because of the costs.  Battle Calcs- No, its no different then the calculators you guys allow- only faster.  Have you ever played with one???  Don’t knock it til you try it.

    I am self-imposing an end to more of this type of discussion because I think I have said everything I can on the topic. Know that your comments are always welcome - but that they would be much better received if they were provided in a more constructive fashion.

    Hey, I try. :wink:


  • Sigh, it didn’t take long to lift my ban, did it?

    My only comment is this - we did NOT allow calculators - Dave indicated he wished at times we did for purposes of buying units - NOT a battle calculator.

    My thoughts on how changes to the tournaments will affect things are based on years of experience and observation. Will I be right - maybe, maybe not. But - my experience tells me I am probably right - I have played in enough, watched enough and talked to enough people to have a pretty good sense of what will fly and what won’t.

    And yeah - you caught me - I said DON’T play and then said DO. I guess I meant DO - I think you are missing out :)

    MM

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    @questioneer:

    Believe me, if I play it will only be because I agree to the terms of the tournament.  At this point, I am not satisfied with them.  G40 seems to be OK- mainly because I created it.  I’m entitled to my opinion, so I don’t understand why you have to bash one’s freedom of speech. :?

    Not to turn this political but despite what some politicians say, criticizing an opinion is most definitely NOT bashing or restricting freedom of speech. He can disagree without as a matter of freedom of speech himself. Finally, sigh, you are outspoken on some things, your opinion has been noted but if the majority of people want it or like it one way, then there’s not much you can do but accept it as reality and play G40 instead. ;-)


  • My only comment is this - we did NOT allow calculators - Dave indicated he wished at times we did for purposes of buying units - NOT a battle calculator.

    What happened here???  9th or 10th picture???
    http://www.headlesshorseman2.com/id12.html

    My thoughts on how changes to the tournaments will affect things are based on years of experience and observation. Will I be right - maybe, maybe not. But - my experience tells me I am probably right - I have played in enough, watched enough and talked to enough people to have a pretty good sense of what will fly and what won’t.

    So you haven’t tried it???- your resume doesn’t mean anything if you haven’t tried it or given it a shot in a tournament.

    And yeah - you caught me - I said DON’T play and then said DO. I guess I meant DO - I think you are missing out :)

    meh…I won’t drive 400 miles to play some few half-games- no, I got great gamers and friends here that play and the best players at AA.org.
    MM


  • @djensen:

    @questioneer:

    Believe me, if I play it will only be because I agree to the terms of the tournament.  At this point, I am not satisfied with them.  G40 seems to be OK- mainly because I created it.  I’m entitled to my opinion, so I don’t understand why you have to bash one’s freedom of speech. :?

    Not to turn this political but despite what some politicians say, criticizing an opinion is most definitely NOT bashing or restricting freedom of speech. He can disagree without as a matter of freedom of speech himself. Finally, sigh, you are outspoken on some things, your opinion has been noted but if the majority of people want it or like it one way, then there’s not much you can do but accept it as reality and play G40 instead. ;-)

    Tell that to MM

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    @questioneer:

    I agree, its his tourny- he has the final say.� If you really don’t like my comments or criticisms then you guys shouldn’t let it bother you so much- or don’t read the forums.� Instead, you give even more attention to it.� Please, stop the hate.� Its not productive.� I’m entitled to my opinion as you yours.� We agree to disagree.� Let it go.

    I’m with you on this. Part of it is just the fact that talking on a forum is different that discussing it in person. This conversation would’ve taken 15-20 minutes in real-life with much less tension. It can be hard to disagree with civility in the forums. I think it helps to throw in smileys to give a queue that you’re  8-) and not  :x

    If disagree but I picture you in a jovial manner instead of a menacing manner, it helps a ton.


  • Ahh…in that case… 8-) and  :-D


  • "END TIME RULE: (See End Time Rule Handout) this is how game will end within the time constraints of the event.
    "

    Do you have any idea where to find this End Time Rule Handout?

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