• @Mallery29:

    Why I feel staacking Burma is bad on UK1:
    UK: 4inf vs. Japan: 4inf/2art/1tank/1FTR at Burma with potential of BB shore shot (from Japan)
    Japan then uses the rest of its forces to hit the two Chinese territories w/o the FTR (inf/art/FTR/Bomber at Yunan, 5inf/FTR at Anwhei). Sure, you give up Kwangsi to one American, but Burma will fall. �� Any counter on UK2 at Burma will be destroyed by a second wave of Japanese troops on J2(2trans bought J1). �� If you are going to move the Russian FTR to Egypt, I would just pull out of Burma and do what you say about moving troops to India. �� You’ll be in a better position to defend/attack (keep your inf fodder to protect your tank buys) without stacking Burma(your transports will get sacked eventually, but your reinforcements will provide you a solid wall against the Japanese . �� If you send the FTR to Egypt, I’m not so sure about hitting Ukraine (likely an attack will fail losing lots of Russians, better to hold the line at Caucus/West Russia). �� I’m ok with sending the FTR to Egypt, but I highly recommend NOT attacking Ukraine…just be prepared for a possible stack in Ukraine.

    Ok, cool enough, I forgot that the sea area on FIC includes Burma too, so forces from Japan could attack Burma with those from FIC. But, it doesn’t change much, we can just leave 1 INF on Burma, and then let 4 INF stay on India, buy 3 Tank, land 1 possible FTR on India after E-Indies battle + UK bomber goes to Caucasus.

    I would adjust then, what I get from Egypt with the transport. I would get the Artillery to India with the transport, and rather blitz 2 spaces from Egypt to Iran with the UK Tank. That way, UK gets another unit, which is the artillery, directly to India while the tank is right behind there on Iran, and can strike Burma on UK2. So basically, if Japanese go into Burma with 4 INF, 2 Art, 1 Tank, then it’s not gonna be good for them on UK2 where you can strike back with 4 INF, 4 Tank, possibly 1 FTR, 1 Bomber, 1 Art which will also boost 1 INF in attack. And then UK can build another 3 Tanks before it’s J2 turn. Alternatively, UK could buy 1 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank on India and build DD and a Carrier and land FTRs on it on London. London already has 3 FTR there when UK2 starts, since I bought one on UK1.

    1 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 1 DD, 1 Carrier = 35 IPC. Which is 3 IPC saved from UK1 + 31 IPC income + 1 IPC from taking New Guinea on UK1.

    Yes, it’s a possibility not to strike Ukraine, or another tank can be added into an attack since Russian FTR has to go to Egypt. But that would leave Russia with 2 Artilleries and 1 Tank safe only, after Germany takes Ukraine back, so it’s tough to decide if Russia should attack Ukraine since FTR goes to Egypt, but it has to go there, it gives UK so many advantages when Egypt is safe.

    I would let the Russian INF I have from Kazakhstan which I moved to the area with the U.S FTR on it on R1, take the Kwantung on R2 turn, and rather use 2 US INF and FTR to strike back at Yunnan, since Japan can only attack it with 1 INF, and 1 Art, Japan possibly losing that 1 INF, and taking Yunnan with only 1 Art.

    OR

    Make a wall on Sinking with 2 US INF and 1 FTR + 1 Russian INF from Novosibirsk + Russian FTR from Egypt flying to Sinking on R2. That would draw away Japanese FTRs from FIC if Japan wants to attack 3 INF + 2 FTR which is a good force.
    If we make a wall on Sinkiang, a US Bomber should be moved to Alaska, so that on US2 that bomber can join 2 US INF and FTR attacking around in China. Alaska will be protected by 1 US INF, 1 UK INF and 1 UK Tank. US Fleet can also position itself on Iwo Jima on US1.


  • Yeah, I wouldn’t hit Burma if you left your inf in India…that’s all I was saying was to save your inf for India…if you left Burma open, I  probably wouldn’t land troops there anyway, and just give a territory buffer between the two opposing forces…this is where my other thread about the E. Indies complex comes into play whether anybody has done it/had success or failures with it to counter this massive quick buildup in India.

    As for for Ukraine, even with the two tanks at Ukraine and the two FTRs, Ukraine is still a hard battle, so removing a FTR makes it even more risky…still do-able but I’m not going to hold my breath in expecting the German FTR to be killed or Ukraine to fall.

    I don’t think the Russian guy in China is needed. Once you do your massive buildup in India, Japan isn’t going to advance right away to go for India (IMHO, the aggressor usually fails and the defender can overrun), so that Chinese territory is just going to get sacked. You are better off either reinforcing the Russian front, staying still,  or sending that guy to India. China would just be a suicide mission for that one Russian guy.


  • @AxisBrutality:

    1. I looks like just taking W.Russia or W.Russia and Ukraine is the safest bet. Although that Moscow FTR need to go to Egypt, in order to be 100% sure that Germany can’t do anything in Egypt, which helps the UK being able to attack the E.Indies fleet. I think it’s a key unit Russia has to “reserve” for the UK on R1 and land back on Moscow or Caucasus on R2. Or else Germany can be tempted to attack Egypt without that Russian FTR and then, UK won’t be able to do anything with E.Indies with just on UK FTR on India, so UK needs both FTR from India and Egypt.

    The advantage of preventing Germany of going after Egypt is pretty obvious but at the same time…

    1. Germany has only 75% odds of winning Egypt - roughly 1 on every four times it will fail and UK will sink the German fleet.
    2. UK only has 64% odds of winning SZ37, or two in three, so this attack is a more riskier than the German one and it basically leaves Africa to the Germans and the Japanese transport on SZ61 left alone.
    3. If Germany attacks Egypt then the UK can at least counter it once and destroy the German armor left there.
    4. If Germany does not attack Egypt then most likely it will create a stack on Libya to pressure Egypt on G2 - and with no UK fleet on the Indian Ocean and a KJF in progress that means that it will be impossible to reinforce Africa from the Germans.
    5. Which may not be a bad thing since it will divert units from the Russian front but at the expense of the UK’s income dropping and Germany turning into a monster.

    See? I’m not entirely convinced of the necessity of Soviet FTR on Egypt… (plus it takes it away from the Russian front) or at least the game can be more interesting without it there.

    1. How about this, I am not saying it’s better than the above strategy, I am just brainstorming. What if Russia takes out Ukraine and Belorussia, and isolate German forces in W.Russia ? It would be kind of fun to do that move just to test out, how that plays out taking out Belorussia and Ukraine, while Germans are isolated i W.Russia.
      There is no way for Germany to take on Moscow or Caucasus with 3 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank but they could strike Arkangelsk, however, Arkangelsk will be reinforced with 2 INF from Evenki. And if they strike Arkangelsk, there will be fewer German forces that can take Leningrad. Germany would have to let 1 German INF stay at W-Russia or else Russian tanks can just blitz through on R2. � It would be interesting to try.

    Ukraine still ranks number one to me because of the destruction inflicted upon the Germans (6 units destroyed) plus it protects Caucasus. If you don’t attack West Russia, then the move is for the Germans to take control of Karelia, without Russia being able to contest it on R2. Belorussia is a nice alternative to the Ukraine but it can still leave the Caucasus vulnerable to a German attack.

    But back to the safe option 1). When Russia does what I argued for, I think we agree, then UK can attack the Japanese E.Indies fleet. Now, I’ve found out how to put more pressure on Japan on FIC, so that Japan has to commit most of their forces to defending FIC. With E-Indies fleet gone and dead, UK can move 3 INF from India to Burma, now UK has 4 INF on Burma.

    Besides 4 UK INF on Burma, UK can move 1 INF from Iran to India. UK Transport from India should get a tank from Egypt to India. Then UK can buy 3 Tanks, 1 FTR + 1 INF or save 3 IPC, but UK should buy 3 Tanks and 1 FTR. � Put those 3 Tanks on India, that makes UK having 4 Tanks on India and 1 INF + 4 INF on Burma. � � Move 1 INF from Syria to Egypt, so that UK has 2 INF + 1 Artillery there. � 1 FTR which has been bought, should be put on London. � Whatever is left of UK Fleet after the attack on E-Indies should land back on India if any UK FTR survived.

    And finally, a UK bomber should fly to Caucasus, making it able to strike FIC on UK2 with 4 Tanks, 4 INF and possibly 1 FTR if it survives after the E-Indies attack.

    So the whole thing is extremely connected to what UK can do based on what Russia has done for the UK on R1, which should be flying a Russian FTR to Egypt, that’s all Russia has to do, and then it’s UK showtime:)

    Nasty. Question is, who does Russia defend from Germany?


  • will also boost 1 INF in attack. And then UK can build another 3 Tanks before it’s J2 turn. Alternatively, UK could buy 1 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank on India and build DD and a Carrier and land FTRs on it on London. London already has 3 FTR there when UK2 starts, since I bought one on UK1.
    1 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 1 DD, 1 Carrier = 35 IPC. Which is 3 IPC saved from UK1 + 31 IPC income + 1 IPC from taking New Guinea on UK1.

    Any UK1-2 buys will be immediately sunk regardless of your planes on the carrier. � Germany has too many subs/planes to sack any UK fleet, especially since I would buy a bomber/SS on G1, and one SS on G2. � The rest goes to inf/art. � If you save money on UK turns, a UK3 drop may be possible, but w/o US assistance in a KJF strat, the UK will have to have a lot saved up to drop on UK4 to make a worthy stand. � In KGF, you could drop UK3 w/o any problems (US3, US ships arrive).
    And taking New Guinea is a waste of troops for India. � Eliminate the E. Indies fleet then NCM the transport w/2inf for a UK2 drop off in India. �

  • TripleA

    ukraine or bust all day everyday.


  • @Hobbes:

    @AxisBrutality:

    1. I looks like just taking W.Russia or W.Russia and Ukraine is the safest bet. Although that Moscow FTR need to go to Egypt, in order to be 100% sure that Germany can’t do anything in Egypt, which helps the UK being able to attack the E.Indies fleet. I think it’s a key unit Russia has to “reserve” for the UK on R1 and land back on Moscow or Caucasus on R2. Or else Germany can be tempted to attack Egypt without that Russian FTR and then, UK won’t be able to do anything with E.Indies with just on UK FTR on India, so UK needs both FTR from India and Egypt.

    The advantage of preventing Germany of going after Egypt is pretty obvious but at the same time…

    1. Germany has only 75% odds of winning Egypt - roughly 1 on every four times it will fail and UK will sink the German fleet.
    2. UK only has 64% odds of winning SZ37, or two in three, so this attack is a more riskier than the German one and it basically leaves Africa to the Germans and the Japanese transport on SZ61 left alone.Â
    3. If Germany attacks Egypt then the UK can at least counter it once and destroy the German armor left there.
    4. If Germany does not attack Egypt then most likely it will create a stack on Libya to pressure Egypt on G2 - and with no UK fleet on the Indian Ocean and a KJF in progress that means that it will be impossible to reinforce Africa from the Germans.
    5. Which may not be a bad thing since it will divert units from the Russian front but at the expense of the UK’s income dropping and Germany turning into a monster.

    See? I’m not entirely convinced of the necessity of Soviet FTR on Egypt… (plus it takes it away from the Russian front) or at least the game can be more interesting without it there.

    Nasty. Question is, who does Russia defend from Germany?

    –----------------------------------------------

    I see your point regarding German odds at taking Egypt, but I’ve seen that Japan is pretty sick like hell if that E-Indies fleet is not taken out. That extra BB, Carrier and 2 FTR are brutal and enables Japan to strike all 3 U.S. territories in China, and I don’t like that. I’ve played it out twice, and each time Japan destroys everything in Asia if the E-Indies fleet survives.

    On the other hand, if we destroy the E-Indies fleet + go for a ground combination as I mentioned, then Japan will have problems with FIC which would be under constant threat. USA can on US2 choose to take Phil or Borneo, + US forces do survive in Tibet, 2 INF + FTR, so at least US has some forces there, which 1 or 2 Russian INF can support, making a wall on either Tibet or Sinkiang. It’s a nice extra force + 5 Russian INF further north-east + India building forces.

    I chose to build 1 FTR on London, rest which is 3 Tanks on India. Saved 3 IPC. I would take New Guinea with 2 Australian INF, so UK should have 35 IPC to buy for on UK2. On UK2 and definitely on UK3, UK needs a fleet, which can survive, extremely important, they should be supported by U.S ships built on Eastern US. That US fleet in the Pacific will already give Japan enough nightmare that USA can pretty much built most of the forces on Eastern U.S.

    So Russia has to hold for 2 rounds at least, it should not be a problem, London can send 2 FTRs over to Arkangel to support Russians.
    And bomber goes to Caucasus on UK1. And since UK will build tanks and other units on India, it’s easy to strike back on Syria if any Germans land there or to support Caucasus if really critical.

    I don’t know if you attack U.S. ships on eastern U.S on G1, because if you do, then UK ships on Eastern Canada survives. Either way, U.S or UK ships will survive. UK can send to Morocco 1 Tank or U.S. can dump in 4 units on Western Africa.


  • Better to take on the US ships w/2 subs vs. the UK DD/Trans…better value for kill (plus it setsback the US).  Besides, what is one UK DD going to do against the remaining SS/Luftwaffe…it will be 3 turns before the UK can muster a fleet in the Atlantic.

    Honestly, even if I lost the Egypt FTR, I’d still go for E. Indies.  Mutual destruction is all I care about. And if I lose the Egypt FTR, there’s still no guranatee Egypt will fall.  Germany is not going to sack the Bomber to take Egypt.  UK can reinforce Egypt enough with 2inf w/o hurting the Indian defense.  More resources poured into Egypt by Germany, the better for Russia.


  • Just finished all the calculations for the possible R1 attacks and combat results and then use them to calculate a possible G1 counterattack on West Russia (why WRus? check this:http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25203.0).

    The Soviets have 4 ‘safe’ openings for R1, listed in an order of low to highest risk of a German WRus counter, assuming average losses while conquering WRus (2-3 INF)

    1. West Russia
    2. West Russia and Belorussia
    3. West Russia and Baltic States
    • With these 3 options Caucasus may fall to the Germans on G1 but the Soviets can send the Moscow FTR to Egypt
    1. West Russia and Ukraine - no FTR to Egypt but Caucasus remains in Soviet possession

    And there’s also the ‘risk’ openings. With those the odds are either low or WRus falls on G1:
    5) West Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia (65% odds of all 3 attacks succeeding)
    6) West Russia and Finland (West Russia will be crushed on G1)
    7) West Russia and any other two territories other than Ukraine and Belorussia. (low odds of all attacks winning, WRus G1 crush)
    8) Not attacking West Russia

    Now, the question is, which one of the first four to choose? Send the fighter to Egypt and most likely Germany will take Caucasus or/and stack Ukraine on G1, giving her 4 IPC and forcing the Soviets to abandon Karelia… decisions, decisions…


  • @Hobbes:

    Just finished all the calculations for the possible R1 attacks and combat results and then use them to calculate a possible G1 counterattack on West Russia (why WRus? check this:http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25203.0).

    The Soviets have 4 ‘safe’ openings for R1, listed in an order of risk of a German WRus counter, assuming average losses while conquering WRus (2-3 INF)

    1. West Russia
    2. West Russia and Belorussia
    3. West Russia and Baltic States
    • With these 3 options Caucasus may fall to the Germans on G1 but the Soviets can send the Moscow FTR to Egypt
    1. West Russia and Ukraine - no FTR to Egypt but Caucasus remains in Soviet possession

    And there’s also the ‘risk’ openings. With those the odds are either low or WRus falls on G1:
    5) West Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia (65% odds of all 3 attacks succeeding)
    6) West Russia and Finland (West Russia will be crushed on G1)
    7) West Russia and any other two territories other than Ukraine and Belorussia. (low odds of all attacks winning, WRus G1 crush)
    8) Not attacking West Russia

    Now, the question is, which one of the first four to choose? Send the fighter to Egypt and most likely Germany will take Caucasus or/and stack Ukraine on G1, giving her 4 IPC and forcing the Soviets to abandon Karelia… decisions, decisions…

    Let’s introduce option 5) which is an extention of option 4) Take West Russia and Ukraine AND send FTR to Egypt. This is the best thing Russia can do.

    Ukraine can be attacked with 3 INF, 1 Art, 3 Tank, 1 FTR, that should be more than enough to take it.
    With this attack there is 85,6% chance according to calc, that Russia will win this, and have at least FTR alive, most probably 1 Tank taking Ukraine. Basically Russia has to sacrifice 1 more tank than usual in order to ensure that UK can have a lot of fun and great options which will help also Russia.


    1. West Russia and Ukraine - no FTR to Egypt but Caucasus remains in Soviet possession

    Now, the question is, which one of the first four to choose? Send the fighter to Egypt and most likely Germany will take Caucasus or/and stack Ukraine on G1, giving her 4 IPC and forcing the Soviets to abandon Karelia… decisions, decisions…

    –-----------------------------

    Let’s introduce option 5) which is an extention of option 4) Take West Russia and Ukraine AND send FTR to Egypt. This is the best thing Russia can do.

    Ukraine can be attacked with 3 INF, 1 Art, 3 Tank, 1 FTR, that should be more than enough to take it.
    With this attack there is 85,6% chance according to calc, that Russia will win this, and have at least FTR alive, most probably 1 Tank taking Ukraine. Basically Russia has to sacrifice 1 more tank than usual in order to ensure that UK can have a lot of fun and great options which will help also Russia.


  • Hobbes, are those risk from high to low or low to high German counter? I’m assuming its high to low.

    I would think Baltic would be the worst one of the four to do since you can get all tanks and most units into a Baltic attack/staging in Ukraine for Germany.


  • @AxisBrutality:

    Let’s introduce option 5) which is an extention of option 4) Take West Russia and Ukraine AND send FTR to Egypt. This is the best thing Russia can do.

    Ukraine can be attacked with 3 INF, 1 Art, 3 Tank, 1 FTR, that should be more than enough to take it.
    With this attack there is 85,6% chance according to calc, that Russia will win this, and have at least FTR alive, most probably 1 Tank taking Ukraine. Basically Russia has to sacrifice 1 more tank than usual in order to ensure that UK can have a lot of fun and great options which will help also Russia.

    Already considered that option but you need both FTRs. To attack WR under the WR+UKR scenario you have these options:

    • 9 INF, 2 ART, 2 ARM or 9 INF, 2 ART, 1 ARM to West Russia
    • 3 INF, 1 ART, 2 ARM, 2 FTR or 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 ARM, 1 FTR or 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 ARM, 2 FTR to Ukraine

    The problem with sending 3 ARM to Ukraine (which come during the calculations) is that West Russia can quite easily be vulnerable to a G1 attack. An average of 3 Soviet INF lost while taking WR means that Germany can attack WR on G1 with everything at its range and try to kill the Soviet stack (at a big price for the Luftwaffe but this move completely devastates the Soviets) with 82% odds on regular dice, 100% if playing low luck.
    If want to send the Moscow FTR to Egypt, then you have to attack Ukraine with 3 ARM and pray… first that you take Ukraine (80% odds), then that you don’t lose more than 2 INF on the WR attack…

    You can find below a pic of the results table. In yellow are the average remaining units on WR after R1. The values in red represent German odds for WR on G1 above 80%.

    R1 and G1.png


  • @Hobbes:

    @AxisBrutality:

    Let’s introduce option 5) which is an extention of option 4) Take West Russia and Ukraine AND send FTR to Egypt. This is the best thing Russia can do.

    Ukraine can be attacked with 3 INF, 1 Art, 3 Tank, 1 FTR, that should be more than enough to take it.
    With this attack there is 85,6% chance according to calc, that Russia will win this, and have at least FTR alive, most probably 1 Tank taking Ukraine. Basically Russia has to sacrifice 1 more tank than usual in order to ensure that UK can have a lot of fun and great options which will help also Russia.

    Already considered that option but you need both FTRs. To attack WR under the WR+UKR scenario you have these options:

    • 9 INF, 2 ART, 2 ARM or 9 INF, 2 ART, 1 ARM to West Russia
    • 3 INF, 1 ART, 2 ARM, 2 FTR or 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 ARM, 1 FTR or 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 ARM, 2 FTR to Ukraine

    The problem with sending 3 ARM to Ukraine (which come during the calculations) is that West Russia can quite easily be vulnerable to a G1 attack. An average of 3 Soviet INF lost while taking WR means that Germany can attack WR on G1 with everything at its range and try to kill the Soviet stack (at a big price for the Luftwaffe but this move completely devastates the Soviets) with 82% odds on regular dice, 100% if playing low luck.
    If want to send the Moscow FTR to Egypt, then you have to attack Ukraine with 3 ARM and pray… first that you take Ukraine (80% odds), then that you don’t lose more than 2 INF on the WR attack…

    A counter attack against Russians on W-Russia can only be done with with 3 German INF, 2 Tank, 4 FTR and 1 Bomber.  Russians should have 6 or 7 INF, 2 Art, 1 Tank. German force is stronger but Germany has a low INF-shield, half of it’s attack are planes.

    Now, if you go all out on Russia in W-Russia, only 1 FTR with 1 Bomber can threaten potential UK Fleet outside London. Since UK DD and Transport survives after G1, 2 Carriers stacked with 2 UK FTRs and 1 US FTR, again might get a green light, because most of the German FTRs, has to land on Belorussia, Baltic States or Poland, which makes UK Fleet beyond range of attack on G2.

    That’s one thing. Second thing is that Russia could attack Ukraine and Belorussia, and isolate W-Russia as I suggested. Then no Russian stack can be threatened what so ever. Russia will have 5 INF on Moscow with 1 Art, 1 Tank. Then Russia can buy 8 more INF, so basically, Germans in W-Russia can’t do much against Moscow or Caucasus for that matter, and Leningrad is under pressure anyway, so it doesn’t matter if 3 German INF invades Leningrad from Belorussia or W-Russia. I’ll also block Arkhangel with 2 Russian INF from Evenki, I can take 1 INF from Moscow, and make that 3 INF on Arkhangel. So basically, the shield will be complete and Russian FTR from Moscow, can freely fly to Egypt.


  • If you play into a multiple land grab situation with the Russians, you will lose more troops overall and not able to counter G1 when you lose Belorussia and Ukraine again.  Sure you can take Ukraine back R2, but now the G1 NCM from Germany/France can stack in Belorussia and Karelia will be gone as well.  The multiple land grabs weaken Russian counters.  West Russia can be hit on G3 without needing to take W.Russia (withdraw after first wave) to provide Karelia a shield from a West Russia attack (essentially, unless UK/US help out, Russia will never be in a position to take back Karelia).


  • @AxisBrutality:

    A counter attack against Russians on W-Russia can only be done with with 3 German INF, 2 Tank, 4 FTR and 1 Bomber. � Russians should have 6 or 7 INF, 2 Art, 1 Tank. German force is stronger but Germany has a low INF-shield, half of it’s attack are planes.

    5 fighters: NW Europe, Norway, Germany, Bulgaria and Poland, landing in Belorussia if necessary. This is a trade-off: Germany sacrifices part or most of the Luftwaffe to get the initiative and the numbers necessary to push the Soviets against the ropes and outnumbered on the ground.
    This is a strategy already known for the 1st Edition of the game, check on the Articles Submission section the Spring 1942 Case Blue Axis Strategy. And it is one of the best KJF counters by the Axis.

    Now, if you go all out on Russia in W-Russia, only 1 FTR with 1 Bomber can threaten potential UK Fleet outside London. Since UK DD and Transport survives after G1, 2 Carriers stacked with 2 UK FTRs and 1 US FTR, again might get a green light, because most of the German FTRs, has to land on Belorussia, Baltic States or Poland, which makes UK Fleet beyond range of attack on G2.

    Which also means that almost no UK units are build on India, making it easier to an early Japanese push - and I’d trade that and control of Karelia and the Eastern front (which a successful WR attack on G1 allows) for having an UK fleet on the Atlantic - it is impossible to prevent it if the Allies want it, this way the Axis get 2 great trade-offs in return.

    That’s one thing. Second thing is that Russia could attack Ukraine and Belorussia, and isolate W-Russia as I suggested. Then no Russian stack can be threatened what so ever. Russia will have 5 INF on Moscow with 1 Art, 1 Tank. Then Russia can buy 8 more INF, so basically, Germans in W-Russia can’t do much against Moscow or Caucasus for that matter, and Leningrad is under pressure anyway, so it doesn’t matter if 3 German INF invades Leningrad from Belorussia or W-Russia. I’ll also block Arkhangel with 2 Russian INF from Evenki, I can take 1 INF from Moscow, and make that 3 INF on Arkhangel. So basically, the shield will be complete and Russian FTR from Moscow, can freely fly to Egypt.

    I don’t agree you can defend Caucasus under those conditions - 4 INF and 2 FTRs are no match for 5 German ground units, plus planes, plus the Med fleet (if the Black Sea is open). Plus you’re giving up Karelia to the Germans, along with Belorussia (permanent +4 income for Germans, -4 for Soviets on round 2, and add to those values 2 from Ukraine if Caucasus falls on G1), which is definitely something you want to delay as quickly as possible, since afterwards it will be impossible to retake it for a long time.
    This is the whole propose of the G1 attack on West Russia - to punch the Soviets hard and be able to use the IC on Karelia - if the Soviets don’t attack WR on R1 they are merely making it easier for the Germans to achieve those aims.


  • Which also means that almost no UK units are build on India, making it easier to an early Japanese push - and I’d trade that and control of Karelia (which a successful WR attack on G1 allows) for having an UK fleet.

    I don’t agree you can defend Caucasus under those conditions - 4 INF and 2 FTRs are no match for 5 German ground units, plus planes, plus the Med fleet (if the Black Sea is open). Plus you’re giving up Karelia to the Germans, along with Belorussia (permanent +4 income for Germans, -4 for Soviets on round 2, and add to those values 2 from Ukraine if Caucasus falls on G1), which is definitely something you want to delay as quickly as possible, since afterwards it will be impossible to retake it for a long time.
    This is the whole propose of the G1 attack on West Russia - to punch the Soviets hard and be able to use the IC on Karelia - if the Soviets don’t attack WR on R1 they are merely making it easier for the Germans to achieve those aims.

    –----------------------------------

    Exactly, that’s why Russian FTR has to GO to Egypt, I mean, do you have any other suggestion? Without that FTR, Germany can attack Egypt, and both E-Indies UK strategy, and possibly Meditteranian UK strategy which I will test out this weekend, is going down the toilets. You seem to recognize how Germany and Japan get a LOT stronger if they can’t be checked between Egypt - India, I consider this actually Southern Russian Flank, which is UK’s task to defend so that Russia can concentrate on eastern front.

    Either way, that Russian FTR is going down to Egypt, no matter what. UK can’t do squat without that. Germany can sabotage one excellent, possibly two excellent strategies for the UK by allowing an attack on Egypt. Can’t let that happen.

    Since Russian FTRs can NOT land on W-Russia on R1 anyway, and since Germany can in theory attack any Russian stack they want, I’ve checked it on the CALC now, then I can’t see how that 1 Russian FTR can do anything good in Russia.

    The only thing I see you are against is that you are not sure if Russia will win an attack in Ukraine, they will, I ran the sim on dskelly, 85% chance that Russia will win that.
    If Russia just sits and waits with Russian stack on W-Russia or whatever, Germany can attack no matter what, even if you and I concentrate it all on W-Russia only, Germany still wins an attack by 66%.

    At least this way, Russia knows that by taking out Ukraine, there is no immediate threat to Caucasus, Germany has 1 less FTR, and then Germany can choose if they want to attack the Russian stack on W-Russia or not. Either way, Germany can attack it as mentioned with 66% odds anyway. Nothing Russian can do about it, absolutely nothing. Just as Germany and Japan can’t do nothing when Russian FTR goes to Egypt, Egypt is safe and E-Indies fleet most likely dead for Japan.

    So it’s a matter of risking your Russian stack, but as I calculated on dskelly, Russian stack is under threat ANYWAY, no matter what you do, lowest odds for Germans at 66% and up to 85% or so, and 85% is the same odds Russians have when they take out Ukraine.

    Maybe W-Russia should only be taken BARELY, so that there is no Russian stack there for Germany to attack, saving 1 Tank for Russia and rather lose 1 or 2 extra INF.

    W-Russia can be attacked with let’s say 8 INF, 1 Art. That should do the trick. Originally I have 9 INF + 3 INF on Caucasus which take care of Ukraine. So I can use 8 INF, 1 Art and will lose 4 to 5 INF or so. So I have 1 extra Art + 1 Tank “saved”. So it’s up to Germany if they want to attack 4 INF with 1 Art. But at least it’s not a stack.

    To sum it up = Attacking Ukraine = 85% Russia win
    To sum it up = Attacking W-Russia “barely” - 8 INF, 1 Art = 89% Russia win , 1 INF, 1 Art and 1 Tank saved.


  • @AxisBrutality:

    To sum it up = Attacking Ukraine = 85% Russia win
    To sum it up = Attacking W-Russia “barely” - 8 INF, 1 Art = 89% Russia win , 1 INF, 1 Art and 1 Tank saved.

    What kind of Victory is it when you have no units left?  all it takes is 3inf in Belorussia and FTRs/Bomber to wipe out W Russia and take back Ukraine?  You just sacked so many Russian units to take WRUS, that you negated your R1 buy.  You are in the hole.  Karelia falls G1 and now you’ll never get it back…the point of taking WRUS/Ukraine is to make the dirty Germans pay for countering.  Yeah, you may win at 85%, but that’s just straight odds…you have to account for the dice, and you’ll be lucky to be left with any of that.  You just gave Moscow to Germany.


  • @AxisBrutality:

    Exactly, that’s why Russian FTR has to GO to Egypt, I mean, do you have any other suggestion? Without that FTR, Germany can attack Egypt, and both E-Indies UK strategy, and possibly Meditteranian UK strategy which I will test out this weekend, is going down the toilets. You seem to recognize how Germany and Japan get a LOT stronger if they can’t be checked between Egypt - India, I consider this actually Southern Russian Flank, which is UK’s task to defend so that Russia can concentrate on eastern front.

    Either way, that Russian FTR is going down to Egypt, no matter what. UK can’t do squat without that. Germany can sabotage one excellent, possibly two excellent strategies for the UK by allowing an attack on Egypt. Can’t let that happen.

    A question of trade-offs. To me having the chance to doing a 66% attack on UK1 may not be worth the 82% risk of a G1 attack on West Russia.

    Since Russian FTRs can NOT land on W-Russia on R1 anyway, and since Germany can in theory attack any Russian stack they want, I’ve checked it on the CALC now, then I can’t see how that 1 Russian FTR can do anything good in Russia.

    The only thing I see you are against is that you are not sure if Russia will win an attack in Ukraine, they will, I ran the sim on dskelly, 85% chance that Russia will win that.
    If Russia just sits and waits with Russian stack on W-Russia or whatever, Germany can attack no matter what, even if you and I concentrate it all on W-Russia only, Germany still wins an attack by 66%.

    At least this way, Russia knows that by taking out Ukraine, there is no immediate threat to Caucasus, Germany has 1 less FTR, and then Germany can choose if they want to attack the Russian stack on W-Russia or not. Either way, Germany can attack it as mentioned with 66% odds anyway.

    Nothing Russian can do about it, absolutely nothing. Just as Germany and Japan can’t do nothing when Russian FTR goes to Egypt, Egypt is safe and E-Indies fleet most likely dead for Japan.

    So it’s a matter of risking your Russian stack, but as I calculated on dskelly, Russian stack is under threat ANYWAY, no matter what you do, lowest odds for Germans at 66% and up to 85% or so, and 85% is the same odds Russians have when they take out Ukraine.

    Maybe W-Russia should only be taken BARELY, so that there is no Russian stack there for Germany to attack, saving 1 Tank for Russia and rather lose 1 or 2 extra INF.

    W-Russia can be attacked with let’s say 8 INF, 1 Art. That should do the trick. Originally I have 9 INF + 3 INF on Caucasus which take care of Ukraine. So I can use 8 INF, 1 Art and will lose 4 to 5 INF or so. So I have 1 extra Art + 1 Tank “saved”. So it’s up to Germany if they want to attack 4 INF with 1 Art. But at least it’s not a stack.

    To sum it up = Attacking Ukraine = 85% Russia win
    To sum it up = Attacking W-Russia “barely” - 8 INF, 1 Art = 89% Russia win , 1 INF, 1 Art and 1 Tank saved.

    Maybe you never have had the experience before but if the Soviets lose the West Russia stack on G1 then they are knocked out for 2-3 game rounds and an experienced Axis player should be able to conquer and hold Caucasus with Germany on rounds 2-4. with Japanese fighter assistance.

    In fact, if the Soviets send their fighter to Egypt then West Russia G1 is even more attractive as a German counter.


  • A question of trade-offs. To me having the chance to doing a 66% attack on UK1 may not be worth the 82% risk of a G1 attack on West Russia.

    Maybe you never have had the experience before but if the Soviets lose the West Russia stack on G1 then they are knocked out for 2-3 game rounds and an experienced Axis player should be able to conquer and hold Caucasus with Germany on rounds 2-4. with Japanese fighter assistance.

    In fact, if the Soviets send their fighter to Egypt then West Russia G1 is even more attractive as a German counter.

    –----------------------------------

    As I said, I am gladly open to suggestions. However, as mentioned no Russian FTR can land on W-Russia.
    So what do you suggest, just taking W-Russia and concentrate it all on W-Russia, correct ? But that still gives Germany 66% to kill the WHOLE stack, Germany has the money to go for it, and yes, I know Russia will be toast then, that’s why I want to take W-Russia barely, and save 1 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank so that I have something besides 2 FTR to conterattack with, besides those 8 INF I buy + 2 moving from Evenki to Ark and 1 INF from Novo to Moscow.

    It’s not fun for the UK nor the U.S. watching Egypt die, and then Japan gets crazy and kills everything in East-Asia, 4 territories, then it’s not even the point to hold India, just give up and buy 3 FTR on London. And by J3, whole Asia and Middle East is dead, now Russia have to pour serious INF forces already on R3 to the East, they can’t afford that.


  • Who cares about Africa now when you already have an IC in India?

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