Factories on Islands?



  • So maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see it say in the rulebook that factories on islands is forbidden.

    This is bad bad bad news….
    Too many games went haywire in revised when Japan ploped down a factory in the east indies, and cranked out 4 units a turn down there and started flinging them at Egypt.



  • Wow, just looked again, and didn’t see placement on islands being forbidden.

    This is bad.  😢


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I don’t think it’s that big of a deal.

    Everyone does it in Anniversary, and that’s just Normal.



  • @oztea:

    Wow, just looked again, and didn’t see placement on islands being forbidden.

    This is bad.�  😢

    I agree.



  • The 1940 fix of no factories on islands was one of the biggest moves forward in gameplay for A&A.
    Now that Australia isn’t an island, we really don’t need ICs to be allowed to be built on islands.
    It’s just going to turn an already potent Japan into a unit slinging monstrosity.

    At least in 1940 and 1941 Japan didn’t start with the DEI or Borneo, so even then slapping down an IC takes a while.
    Now they can consolidate around an island, plop down an IC, and shuck units back and forth from a 4 IPC territory.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    ICs can be built on any territory worth at least 1 IPC. Number of units built there is the IPC value of the territory less any damage to the IC.



  • Still….this will bring us back to the dark ages of A&A



  • @oztea:

    Still….this will bring us back to the dark ages of A&A

    I think your using a bit hyperbole.  Game isn’t even out yet and your spreading doom and gloom. A little early for that.


  • Customizer

    I say bring it on. Less tanks on the mainland means Ivan lasts longer. You don’t like the Japanese in Egypt? Stop them.



  • Problem is, east indies doesn’t warrant that kind of industrial capacity.
    A big honking Japanese fleet guarding a shuck of 2 tanks 2 Infantry each turn….that the allies can’t threaten by land…and is really far away from the US.

    That was how all our old games of Revised went down.
    Japan needs production capacity? What gives them the best bang for their buck?
    2 IPC territory in China?
    3 IPC territory in India?

    Or the 4 banger island that the allies can’t ever get to.

    My stomach turns just to think about it.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Oh but the Japanese pumping tanks out of Manchuria and India, that blitz across siberia, china, and the middle east in a single move doesn’t bother you? 😛

    It’s all part of the fun brother!



  • Manchuria is 3 IPCs, not 4.
    And isn’t in a position to transport Infantry AND Tanks to combat zones 2 spaces away. (on any of 3 continents)

    Tanks in Siberia are on a set path…you know where they are going and they will outrun their infantry.

    2 INF, 2 TNK every turn at East Indies is going to get loaded on to 2 transports and sent to Egypt. And the 2 transports off the coast of Egypt will return to the East Indies sea zone and wait to pick up next turns buy. (or India instead of Egypt, or Persia and on to Stalingrad)

    The japanese territories on the coast have all been reduced to 2 (except manchuria) so that each factory you buy for them only nets you 2 production spaces (not three)
    Thus making Manchuria the best spot for a factory (because you get the most spaces to place at)

    Except East Indies is BETTER.

    It can’t be attacked by land
    It can build 4 units (fitting neatly into 2 transports)
    It is within range of Africa, Asia, and Australia
    You can industrialize it on your first turn

    Thats the real problem…that Japan STARTS with these money islands, and can turn them into an production hub equal in output to the Caucasus over the span of one turn.


  • 2018 2016 '13 '12

    So will this make the axis too powerful? Is the game broken before it even comes out?

    Or will Japan be too weak without this ability? I suggest we wait and actually play the game before deciding that it’s broken. Besides Anti-aircraft artillery will probably fix all of this, right?

    If it becomes a big deal in gameplay just houserule factories on islands out. That’s what I always do.


  • Customizer

    I think you are putting too much value on Japan being able to put an IC in the East Indies. Yeah, 4 units each turn is pretty good, but you have to keep transports around to get them off that island and you have to keep some warships around to protect those transports. That can be easier said than done if USA decides to get aggressive with their navy in the Pacific.
    Also, if most of your fleet is around the East Indies, what do you have protecting the Home Islands?
    Overall, I think a factory in Manchuria will do Japan more good. Plus, you can put another one in India after you capture it.



  • What if Japan puts an IC in East Indies it is either a great move or they are building it for the USA. If the US wants it they can go get it. I like the idea of letting you put complexes on islands it adds to the game. I think too many times people get bogged down into thinking this game should play the way the war actually went. I think the beauty of it is that you can change history not be ruled by it.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I think the beauty of it is that you can change history not be ruled by it.

    YES!



  • How much does it change though with UK having the IC in India?  Africa will hold for sure, so now India just has to defend itself. (I can only assume that’s where the second IC is since half the card is covered).  UK may have less units out there, but it has at least a head start on builds and China as a meat shield (along with whatever survives as a fleet).



  • IMHO if UK pours a bunch of money in India that is less money they can throw at Germany. My buddies try that a lot and if I am Germany I welcome it. That means I can steamroll Russia.



  • have you seen the map…they most likely HAVE the complex in India from the start…so they better pour money into it…and what you going to do, build a fleet right away for Germany to sink it?  The UK fleet is exposed on all sides now…I would love to see it work out, but based off the map and the lack of units in the SZ around it, you won’t see a fleet there till UK3 when America can show up on US3…and since it looks like India and Burma aren’t heavily defended from the get go (based off of not seeing a lot of words on their approximate lines {although it could say 10inf, and I wouldn’t know), a free complex for Japan is ALWAYS a terrible idea.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    I can tell you from playing the game, don’t count on having a UK fleet around London by UK1. Luftwaffe has 6 fighters and a bomber…



  • @Variable:

    I can tell you from playing the game, don’t count on having a UK fleet around London by UK1. Luftwaffe has 6 fighters and a bomber…

    And by the rulebook for what was showing, that’s at least 2FTR, 1 BMR able to hit that poor old BB…and that’s not even factoring the SS…they have a term for this…surrounded. (or frak’d or F$&^'d).



  • There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

    Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
    Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

    Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.



  • @oztea:

    There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

    Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
    Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

    Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

    I agree.  Oztea succinctly makes the case.



  • @oztea:

    There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

    Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
    Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

    Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

    I whole heartly agree.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    I think getting the factory building right is the most important part of A&A, seeing as how Economics is a major factor in play. I thought that is why Global Major IC building was amended in Alpha to prevent Majors cropping up everywhere. We do not want silly gaming. Everyone complains the Axis always win and then you see why. A Japanese factory inbetween Australia and India could be a killer move. (Of course we all did it in nniversary.)


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