• (Warning you are going to need trustfull people to play with) I always thought it was interesting that you could always know where your enemies subs are, this rule eliminates that. You have to keep track of where your subs should be located but no one else will know where your Subs are located, but for balance you have to resurface every 4 turns and if an enemy destroyer goes over you during there turn you must surface for the remainer of that turn.  Please add any input to balance this please say so.

  • Interesting idea but it seems to me like it would take a lot of bookkeeping.

  • Tried this many times in the past. Really slows the game down. U.S. and Japan resorts to flooding the pacific with all subs. Great idea in theory, just not practical. Try this instead. Destroyers and planes must make a detection roll of dice before subs can be attacked. On roll of 1 or 2 sub or subs are detected and can be attacked. If sub attacks  first, defending destroyers must make succsesful detection roll on 1-3 becouse sub fired shot so defending ships already know sub is in area and maybe what direction torpedeo came from. If subs are not detected or as i refer to as “pinned” be sonar, sub is considered to have slipped away. Seems complicated, but after one or two games it becomes standard proceedure and is not a big deal. Just like escorts and interceptors were introduced into SBRs. I have found that this will simulate what your looking for without having to track subs on seperate pieces of paper the whole nite.

  • I think what you really want to play is the ‘blind’ A&A variant. It requires two copies of the board, and a moderator to keep track of enemy unit interactions. Very enjoyable, albeit time-consuming! I’ve written a thread on how to run it on BGG, you can find the link on these boards:


  • an old expansion for classic called for something similar. but it was 2 turns off the board a third turn on the board. even came with an index card sized tracker to keep track of how long it’s been off the board. You had to keep track of movements you made with each sub with a piece of paper. And had to make detection rolls to find them if they are off the board. If they were on the board no detection roll was needed. At anytime a player can call into question that the subs are where they are suppose to be and one allied player (of the axis choosing) and the other axis player. work together to track the subs movements and judge to make sure the rules aren’t broken. If the subs controller cheats he loses the sub. if either side gives away where a hidden sub is hiding the rulebreaker losing 12 ipcs worth of units and the opponents choosing which units. The expansion came with little white stickers so you could number the sea zones in classic. Ahead of it’s time in that respect. Normally the axis picked the russian player and would show them every round what was going on with there subs to avoid confussion later. It was alittle fun to be russia and know where everyone’s sub were and watch as everyone tried to find them. made the game light hearted. It gave the german player and russian player something they could look at each other and laugh about as they were trying to kill each other.

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