• '16 '15 '10

    Japan can attack Pearl Harbor on J1 with enough force that it can occupy the space and not fear counter-attack.  Is this move wise?

    On the plus side, it destroys some USA navy and isolates the remaining American ships off WUSA.

    On the negative side, it puts the Jap fleet and especially the Jap ACs out of position far away from the money islands, which ought to slow down Japan’s economic expansion.

    Thoughts?


  • In a currently ongoing game, I did a J1 Pearl by strafing with planes and subs, then landing on carriers just out of US reach, blocking SZ 26 with a destroyer.

    It seemed to slow down the US considerably, but it also prompted an all-out KJF strategy which I’m now facing the consequences of, on my lonely island.


  • Zhukov, this is a VERY bad idea. The US is SO powerful that you should avoid bringing them into the game until it’s absolutely necessary. IF the UK or Anzac player does something in Round 1 that allows you to deal a big blow to them, then you attack the UK/Anzac on Turn 1. But, most decent UK/Anzac players won’tdo this. And what I mean by big blow is, take Anzac by Round 2 or 3. Or, kill the UK navy on Round 2. Most Japan players will wait until Round 2 or 3 to take the money islands, which brings the US into the war. My recommendation is wait until Round 3 to take the money islands, bringing the US into the war. The US comes into the war on the Collect Income phase of Round 3, if they’re not declared war on earlier by Japan. I would concentrate on China the first 2 rounds. And then, depends on what your Axis strategy is? Take 6 VC’s in Asia or 8 VC’s in Europe. If 8 VC’s in Europe, have Japan attack Russia up north and through China and SBR the Russian IC in Rus through China to help the Germans.


  • pro s japs declaring war on j1:

    -japs can expand really fast, and also will get india early sacrificing less air.

    -japs will have a solid pac win threat, forcing usa to commit really much in pac.

    con s:

    -uk can safely buy a fac for egy on uk1 so no more africa / early middle east for axis

    -china can get huge.

    ps: check cow s japs strat subject for a detailed discussion.

  • TripleA

    no do standard j1, hawaii has no value, worth 1 dolla. go for the country that matters take india.  you can avoid dealing with america for at least the first 3 rounds. just attack pinoyland do my standard j1 dow opener.

  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    @Cow:

    no do standard j1, hawaii has no value, worth 1 dolla. go for the country that matters take india.  you can avoid dealing with america for at least the first 3 rounds. just attack pinoyland do my standard j1 dow opener.

    ??  Hawaii is an NO to USA and Japan - it’s a 12 IPC per turn swing


  • @Gamerman01:

    @Cow:

    no do standard j1, hawaii has no value, worth 1 dolla. go for the country that matters take india.  you can avoid dealing with america for at least the first 3 rounds. just attack pinoyland do my standard j1 dow opener.

    ??  Hawaii is an NO to USA and Japan - it’s a 12 IPC per turn swing

    japs cant take  hawaii in first round, can only stack sz26 as zhukov said at the first message of this thread (which is actually a really suboptimal move btw).
    hence hawaii worthing only 1 (j1).

  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    For the convoy, OK, gotcha

    It’s gotta be sub-optimal, yes.  Japan doesn’t control the naval base in Honolulu for J2.  Only sinking 4 boats - none really expensive.


  • @Commando:

    If 8 VC’s in Europe, have Japan attack Russia up north and through China and SBR the Russian IC in Rus through China to help the Germans.

    But then US dedicates heavy Atlantic buy from US 2 on and italy gets locked down quickly while UK/US set up for the 1-2 punch on WGer or can-open denmark for a strike at the capital.

    IF russia even falls, cairo/london are fortresses.  Its VERY tricky to go on an all in Sino-Russian Strategy.

  • TripleA

    I tried pearl… it doesn’t work out usually.

    I don’t understand why but it ends up not going so good.


  • It might be because Japan needs to focus on one enemy at the time 😉

  • 2021 2020 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    I considered it too, but agree with the others: do not try it. Japan is better letting US come after it once it has made its gains and money in Asia. Hawaii leaves you on the wrong side of the pacific, with your best asset, the fleet, stretched and liable to destruction.


  • @wittman:

    I considered it too, but agree with the others: do not try it. Japan is better letting US come after it once it has made its gains and money in Asia. Hawaii leaves you on the wrong side of the pacific, with your best asset, the fleet, stretched and liable to destruction.

    Japan is better off never facing the US Navy in the Pacific.  With that said, you can get your fleet a significant head start on its way to Calcutta and if you decide the odds aren’t in your favor, just keep moving towards Egypt.

    It pairs real well with a German move towards Moscow, shortening the game that the Allies get to play for in Europe.

    As for DoW, J2 or J3 seems to make more sense as you aren’t focused on winning in the Pacific, but getting your fleet around to Calcutta and either taking it or skipping it to land your TT convoy in Iraq.  The US has a hard time taking Japan if from J3 onward you just invest IPC in defending your capital and getting Bombers out of Japan, into China and then either hitting Calcutta or skipping across it.

    I’ve had 7 TT with Inf/Art land in Egypt and staged for Egypt on the next round.  The 1-2 Punch of Italy and Japan pretty much assures Egypt is in Axis hands right around the time Germany should be planning on taking Moscow which = GG for the Allies.

    I personally prefer this route over anything else and India is helpless to stop your fleet from skipping right past it once it goes into Inf Defensive mode with the obvious feign to take Calcutta.  The US is way too far behind to catch up even its initial early purchases if you keep yourself along the coastline of the South Pacific with your Navy.

    At worst, the US convoys Japan for 8 IPC for that 52+ IPC it spent trying to kill your navy early on, but Japan isn’t there to win an economic battle in this move, but in it to assist Italy in easily taking and holding Egypt before the Allies can realistically get themselves into the Med to even try to reclaim it (let along address the full Japanese Navy that likely lost zero to no ships from the start).


    • Soulfein

    uk can safely buy a fac for egy on uk1 so no more africa / early middle east for axis

    Wonder why that is ? How can they “safely” do it ? What bout sealion ? Or am I missing something ?

    PPP


  • Sealion is almost in irrelavent since US easily reinforces England before germany can land and/or mass bombers to smash the transport stack/navy.

    Assuming a J1 attack occurs.


  • Ahh ty ghr2, but how do u normally do with US if u see J1 attacack, UK does fac en egypt and germany goes for sealion! What is your purchase with US ? Cant seem to figure out what the best buy is to preven/help UK!

    Ty PPP

  • '16 '15 '10

    @Commando:

    Zhukov, this is a VERY bad idea. The US is SO powerful that you should avoid bringing them into the game until it’s absolutely necessary. IF the UK or Anzac player does something in Round 1 that allows you to deal a big blow to them, then you attack the UK/Anzac on Turn 1. But, most decent UK/Anzac players won’tdo this. And what I mean by big blow is, take Anzac by Round 2 or 3. Or, kill the UK navy on Round 2. Most Japan players will wait until Round 2 or 3 to take the money islands, which brings the US into the war. My recommendation is wait until Round 3 to take the money islands, bringing the US into the war. The US comes into the war on the Collect Income phase of Round 3, if they’re not declared war on earlier by Japan. I would concentrate on China the first 2 rounds. And then, depends on what your Axis strategy is? Take 6 VC’s in Asia or 8 VC’s in Europe. If 8 VC’s in Europe, have Japan attack Russia up north and through China and SBR the Russian IC in Rus through China to help the Germans.

    Every game is different, but typically i want to hedge my bets and go for both Atlantic and Pacific wins (hard for allies to stop both), so I’m declaring J1 or J2 (normally J1).  Waiting for J3 seems like such a handicap on Japan that I’d only do it in special circumstances…like if I needed to increase Germany’s Sea Lion odds, or if Allies give me a big opportunity for an attack in China/Siberia on J2 that I want all my units for.

    Hell if I’m Allies I’ll sometimes declare on Japan UK2 for the extra 15 ipcs in NOs, given that USA will still get the extra income on USA3 and if Japan doesn’t declare on USA J3 then they won’t take Philippines (+7 for usa).

    I tried pearl… it doesn’t work out usually.

    I don’t understand why but it ends up not going so good.

    It’s an awkward place for the Japanese fleet to be sitting at the end of J1.  And, it takes 2 turns go get back to a more strategic spot.  Without those ACs close to the Indies, it is harder to grab islands and protect transports.

    Also, Japan won’t be able to take Borneo J1 (since if they don’t have the AC in sz50 they’ll need the full 3 inf 2 art arm to safely take Phi)…so that’s an 8 ipc swing for Allies.

    But even with these drawbacks I wonder if destroying much of the USA fleet and keeping USA stalled off WUSA for a turn or 2 is worth it anyway.

  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    @Zhukov44:

    Hell if I’m Allies I’ll sometimes declare on Japan UK2 for the extra 15 ipcs in NOs, given that USA will still get the extra income on USA3 and if Japan doesn’t declare on USA J3 then they won’t take Philippines (+7 for usa).

    Problem with UK2 DOW on Japan is USA can’t sail away from the USA in the Atlantic until US4.  Assuming J DOW on UK/ANZ on J3, USA can launch to Europe/Africa on US3.

    Right?  I’m just starting to play Alpha3 and getting used to the way it plays in the first 4 rounds.
    You guys talking about everything from J1 to J4 DOW and Sealion/no Sealion etc etc is about making my head spin.

    Great point by Zhukov I think to be ready for Europe OR Pacific win.  If you go all out for one theater and give up on the other, Allies will quickly adjust.  Would seem Axis best chance is to prepare for victory in either.  That way if you get good dice in one of the theaters or if your opponent makes a blunder, then you can shift to it, or whatever.  If you plan and focus on one theater, you are forfeiting one of your 2 chances to win.

    That said, if you’re playing someone you’ve never played or someone not very experienced, and they have no idea what you’re going to do, you can probably snag a win easily by going all out for one theater and catching them off guard.  There are always those gimmicky wins you can get when people aren’t experienced with the game yet (Like AA50-1942 flying most Jap air to EUk on J2 or J3 or whatever to prevent Russian counterattack, giving you the Caucasus to take and hold and game over)

  • '16 '15 '10

    @Gamerman01:

    @Zhukov44:

    Hell if I’m Allies I’ll sometimes declare on Japan UK2 for the extra 15 ipcs in NOs, given that USA will still get the extra income on USA3 and if Japan doesn’t declare on USA J3 then they won’t take Philippines (+7 for usa).

    Problem with UK2 DOW on Japan is USA can’t sail away from the USA in the Atlantic until US4.  Assuming J DOW on UK/ANZ on J3, USA can launch to Europe/Africa on US3.

    True.  There is the inconvenience of not grabbing Brazil on USA3 (assuming Uk can’t get it on UK3).  Beyond that it’s not a big deal, since in my experience USA is spending primarily in the Pacific early on and Allies normally aren’t ready to move forward in the Atlantic on Round 3 anyway.  If UK declares UK2 and Japan doesn’t declare on usa J3, then USA can still move its fleet to the sz off Queensland, which is almost as strategic a spot as off the Carolines.

    Of course, if Germany is going Sea Lion, then there are a different set of considerations, and UK should be wary of declaring on Japan prematurely.


  • @PeterPaaPan:

    Ahh ty ghr2, but how do u normally do with US if u see J1 attacack, UK does fac en egypt and germany goes for sealion! What is your purchase with US ? Cant seem to figure out what the best buy is to preven/help UK!

    Ty PPP

    Alot of people would say mass bombers first turn or 2, and just enough fodder in the pac to hold the west coast for the next couple turns.  The mass bombers can be used to save uk, or counter the japanese or german fleets.  Or us could land some air on gib or iceland to reinforce UK, or build some atlantic carriers so that they can park in range of sz 110/109 to counter.
    India/anzac will be able to contest the islands for a while and give japan a hard time.  It really depends on how much japan sends to hawaii. And germany’s first turn buy.

    Sry for the delay PPP, some how this post got on the high resoultion map thread.


  • Mass Subs is more entertaining on US1, with a mix on US2 of SS and Bombers.  It plays a good counter to all the aircraft Japan has in the Pacific and works as a good convoy tool either off Tokyo or Rome (saves the UK from having to get SS to convoy Italy out of the game).


  • Japan only declares war on the USA turn 1 if they hate Germany and want to kill their chances of winning. Here is why. You shift USA builds to Germany and you can easily find some area to invade Europe with, Germany has to focus so much on defense that taking Moscow becomes a pipe dream, thus they are being pounded on both sides. The USA can build so much each turn that they can kill both oceans.


  • I’m quite new to these boards but knowledgable about the game, I too thought it was crazy at first but I’ve been doing some testing on this strat and it might actually be viable. In any case some of the counters people are suggesting will definitely not work. Buying all atlantic or all bombers will mean your fleet is annihilated J2. Buying subs is close, may be viable. The key is being able to leave your fleet at hawaii another turn, which is also close, depending on the buy and the dice. If you can take hawaii J2, you can pick up the NO and your fleet is in a great position to go after ANZAC next turn. This sets you up very nicely for a Pacific win if the US does a heavy atlantic build, which also means Germany is safe from any of the usual disadvantadges of a J1 declaration. I’m not saying this would be my preferred strategy, but it may not be as bad as you’d think.


  • Assuming a J1 DOW and a Japanese fleet sitting on or around Hawaii, how many turns will it take for the US to neutralize Japan in the Pacific?  3?  4?  Its about the equivalent of waiting a few turns as Japan before the US can DOW.  The tradeoff is Japan gains very little economic advantage and just keeps the US busy in the Atlantic until Japan loses most of its fleet that it cannot replace.

Suggested Topics

  • 5
  • 7
  • 4
  • 12
  • 4
  • 8
  • 6
  • 72
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

31
Online

15.5k
Users

36.8k
Topics

1.5m
Posts