Will they come out with an A&A Pearl Harbor



  • now they have done battle of the bulge, D-Day, Guadalcanal but i’m wondering if they will come out with a Pearl Harbor Version, and if so, is it something you guys would like? or not like ?



  • i don’t think so. It’s not a pivotal battle where both sides had a good chance of winning and there would be limited to no reenforcements. I think Midway is a better opition and that’s a long shot.


  • 2016 Customizer

    Yeah, Pearl Harbor is not a “battle” persay. As Yavid pointed out, there’s really not much tactical fighting to be done.



  • Spitfire is right, it its not a battle. it is more like duck shooting, but whith that diference that the “duck” can’t fly away. 9 from 10 games will be victory for Japan, and the 1 is only because the dice hate the jap player.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yes that’s coming out.

    Just get a barrel and find some ducks and start shooting with shotgun, they should get sunk in no time.

    Slap on AA logo on side and complain about typos in the rules and enjoy the new sculpts of pre-made blown up old Geezer WW1 Battleships.

    You gotta be kidding me with this.


  • Customizer

    Oh, I don’t know, it could be made into a fun game. They could come up with different scenarios. For instance, Admiral Nagumo decided against sending a 3rd wave. I think it was due to fears that his task force had been detected and was under risk of being attacked. Anyway, if he had sent a 3rd wave, how much more damage would they have caused?
    Also, what if the US carriers had been there in Pearl? How bad would the US have been set back then?
    On the other hand, what if the US forces had been better alerted to the Japanese attack? Maybe the US forces could have defended better, destroyed more Japanese planes and not allowed so much destruction.
    Better yet, what if the US had somehow gotten advance notice of the impending attack? Imagine the Japanese attack planes flying into a deadly trap. Imagine the 8 US battleships and other warships steaming up to blast the Japanese task force. The Japanese navy could have been stopped in it’s tracks before the war even got going.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Imagine the 8 US battleships and other warships steaming up to blast the Japanese task force.

    Yea at a maximum of 21 knots, while the Japanese force escapes at 30-34 knots….


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Battle of the Coral Sea, with some kind of “fog of war” element would be bad-ass.

    You could use naval markers, and then have concealead ship groups, or something.


  • Customizer

    I believe the “Coach” from HBG was planning on doing a Pearl Harbor game with many different variables before he got so busy with all of his other projects. It sounded interesting, fun and competitive in a way. Sort of see how well you do against certain “scenarios”, real and imagined. I will buy it whenever it’s produced(Hint, Hint).

    “Tall Paul”



  • give the guy a break… Why wouldn’t it be possible to make a pearl harbor game? The point of all these games is to change history, right? You can add many different scenario’s…


  • TripleA '12

    For what it’s worth, I don’t think we’ll ever see a Pearl Harbour game as it’s based on one battle over a very small area, and would most likely not constitute any land forces. At least D-Day was spread over several fronts and land units can take part. I think Pearl Harbour would just be too limited in scope. I mean, what would the map look like? I just can’t imagine it.

    I’m not knocking you Scarapis, it’s a good idea - I just doubt very much that it’ll ever see the light of day.



  • Actually i’ve seen war games which covered a much smaller area in size, and as for people who say so the Japanese win or the outcome will always be the same, then why bother playing wargames? people do not play wargames for being historically accurate, but play them for the strategy to change the outcome.

    as to area, lets face it, the only fighting did not occur in the Harbor itself, but at airbases and such too.

    Pearl Harbor:

    Can the US get it right this time, or will the Japanese still prevail.

    The ultimate What If.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Scarapis:

    Pearl Harbor: Can the US get it right this time, or will the Japanese still prevail. The ultimate What If.

    The answer would depend on the rules.  To be realistic, they’d have to create a situation in which the US player didn’t know that the Japanese player was about to attack.  If the US player is allowed to play the game using his hindsight knowledge of what happened historically, the game wouldn’t be realistic.



  • @CWO:

    @Scarapis:

    Pearl Harbor: Can the US get it right this time, or will the Japanese still prevail. The ultimate What If.

    The answer would depend on the rules.  To be realistic, they’d have to create a situation in which the US player didn’t know that the Japanese player was about to attack.  If the US player is allowed to play the game using his hindsight knowledge of what happened historically, the game wouldn’t be realistic.Â

    Well there is 2 ways this can be played, one the US learns of the attack or two every turn before japan actually hits pearl harbor the US rolls a die on a certain number they discovery the attack, any other number they only see a flock of geese on their radar scopes.


  • Customizer

    Guys,

    Just think what a Pearl Harbor game COULD be. The defending Americans would follow their historical “story-line” until they arrive at certain decisive moments where you could throw a die for a possible alternative reaction.

    Example: When the USS Ward attacks a Japanese mini-sub at the entrance to the harbor before the attack the US immediately reacts by going on full alert, instead of the historical complete lack of reaction prior to the attack.

    There were literally DOZENS of historically accurate DECISIVE MOMENTS that could have turned the attack from a Japanese rout into a possible American victory. There are many, many outcomes for this scenario and I would imagine the games would end diferently most every time. THINK ABOUT IT.

    “Tall Paul”



  • some a&a variants i would like to see would be…

    Midway
    Stalingrad
    North Africa Campaign:  War in the Desert  1940-1943  including Operation Torch
    Eastern Front 1941-1945
    Crusade in Europe:  Western Front 1944-1945
    Invasion of Japan:  Operation Downfall…(hypothetical game)
    Philippines Campaign:  ie the Battle of Leyte Gulf
    Kursk:  Largest Tank battle of the war
    The Battle of the Atlantic
    Battle of Britain
    Operation Barbarossa
    Iwo Jima/Okinawa

    Just some ideas and examples


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Gargantua,

    Fog of war is a pain in the arse, even with 3 people doing it.  two maps, different rooms and one guy/gal referring and displaying what’s visible…

    I think they’ve WWIIed the game out.  Unless they want to release a World War II - The Aftermath with England and USA vs Russia and the Eastern Territories (Romania, Bulgaria, etc).  A sort of “What if Patton convinced Eisenhower to press the attack?” deal


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @RJL518:

    some a&a variants i would like to see would be…

    Midway
    Stalingrad
    North Africa Campaign:  War in the Desert  1940-1943  including Operation Torch
    Eastern Front 1941-1945
    Crusade in Europe:  Western Front 1944-1945
    Invasion of Japan:  Operation Downfall…(hypothetical game)
    Philippines Campaign:  ie the Battle of Leyte Gulf
    Kursk:  Largest Tank battle of the war
    The Battle of the Atlantic
    Battle of Britain
    Operation Barbarossa
    Iwo Jima/Okinawa

    Just some ideas and examples

    Have you seen the games available from HBG? We cover a number of those…



  • @RJL518:

    some a&a variants i would like to see would be…

    Midway
    Stalingrad
    North Africa Campaign:  War in the Desert  1940-1943  including Operation Torch
    Eastern Front 1941-1945
    Crusade in Europe:  Western Front 1944-1945
    Invasion of Japan:  Operation Downfall…(hypothetical game)
    Philippines Campaign:  ie the Battle of Leyte Gulf
    Kursk:  Largest Tank battle of the war
    The Battle of the Atlantic
    Battle of Britain
    Operation Barbarossa
    Iwo Jima/Okinawa

    Just some ideas and examples

    OMG i would love an Operation Downfall game.


  • Customizer

    @Cmdr:

    I think they’ve WWIIed the game out.  Unless they want to release a World War II - The Aftermath with England and USA vs Russia and the Eastern Territories (Romania, Bulgaria, etc).  A sort of “What if Patton convinced Eisenhower to press the attack?” deal

    We tried that once. USA had beaten Japan in the Pacific and UK took Berlin. I don’t remember which one captured Rome.
    At first it was tough on the western Allies because Russia had built up a LOT of tanks and had most of them in the Eastern Europe and Balkans territories. But with US and UK having all the German and Italian factories, it was only a matter of time.
    France kept buying infantry to move up and help defend US/UK possessions. The US still had a lot of transports to ship more stuff from E USA to add to the stuff being built in W Germany and Italy. Needless to say, US and UK totally dominated the seas, no Russian presence at all (What little navy they had was sunk by Germany long ago). UK managed to land a force on Norway and push the Russians back there. Meanwhile, Russia’s closest factories were Leningrad and the Ukraine, so their lines were too long.
    On top of that, the US was also shucking a small force from the east from their factory in Japan. Russia’s territory kept shrinking until eventually Moscow was surrounded.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Well, if it were to be a codified game, there would have to be some thought as to balance.

    I could see it being balanced with the Russians starting out in prime control of Europe, but the Allies controlling both the air and sea…I could envision the Russians pushing the allies out of Europe initially with the Allies pushing back in since Russia then has to protect Norway, France, NW Europe, Denmark, Germany, S. France and the Italies against incursion.

    I would think it would be fun…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Japan, of course, would be American territory….Maybe China would be Russian?


  • Customizer

    I was hoping we might discuss a Pearl Harbor game and thus generate some possible rules/scenarios/etc. as well as interest in it’s production.

    “Tall Paul”


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I’m just not sure it’s all that feasible.  To be honest.  Maybe if it was a sort of Fortress America type of game, where you have preset reinforcements and America wins by out surviving Japan (America with unlimited reinforcements but finite territory)

    Something like 8 Land Zones, Japan needs all 8 to win (none of them are capitols sort of like no capitol in China)
    Japan’s limited to something like 500 IPC worth of reinforcements, and if America can kill all the Japanese and all the Japanese reinforcements, then they win.


  • Customizer

    That sounds kind of fun and interesting, but it also supposes a Japanese invasion of Hawaii which wasn’t their intent. The attack on Pearl Harbor was only an air strike against US Air Bases and the Pacific Fleet. Japan had no plans for actually invading Hawaii, at least not at that point. Still an interesting idea.

    What about a WW2 style Fortress America game? You could have Japan be the Western Invader, Germany the Eastern Invader and Italy the Southern Invader. Make it just like Fortress America where each player gets 60 units split up between Infantry, Artillery, Mech Inf, Tanks, Fighters, Tac Bombers and Bombers. America would also get Partisan reinforcements, perhaps represented by HBG Marine Infantry units, or the Marine Infantry from the old Pacific game if you have them. Heck, they could even be represented by the Light Grey Axis Minor Infantry since Partisan units in the new Fortress America game are grey. Another idea would be to use the Light Green Neutral Infantry from HBG. Even Chinese Infantry would work in a pinch.
    Perhaps the Laser Complexes could be replaced by Atom Bombs. USA gets some sort of marker to represent an Atom Bomb base each turn, placed in a US controlled city, and they get so many Atom Bomb strikes per turn, depending on how many Atom Bomb Bases they have. When Invaders capture cities with A Bomb Bases, they destroy them immediately. A low-yield Atom Bomb would be enough to destroy 1 military unit and could possibly fail, thus the roll of the dice.
    Perhaps the USA should also get AA Guns for defense. A certain number of AA guns in each city and only in cities and don’t count toward the 5 unit per territory limit. They act as normal AA guns in Global, up to 3 shots per gun or 1 shot per attacking aircraft, whichever is lower, and can be taken as casualties in defense. If you don’t like the Atom Bomb idea, perhaps AA guns could be the extra defense ability for USA. Each city starts with a certain number of AA guns, maybe 2, and each round USA gets a new AA gun to place in any city they still control. Again, AA guns would not count toward the 5 unit per territory limit.


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