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HBG Rail Station & Railway Markers [Acrylic Markers] : How should we use it?



  • Hi

    HBG has now released both Rail Station and Rail Markers :

    http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/HBG-Train-Station-Marker-Acrylic_p_732.html

    http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/HBG-Rail-Marker-Acrylic_p_724.html

    • What should they cost?
    • How should they be used?
    • How many territories should be allowed to Rail through?
    • Should Territories IPC value have something to say according to Rail Capacity?

    What Is Your Thoughts about Rail Station Markers, Rail Markers and Rail Capacity?

    Here is my opinion about Rail Station Markers and Rail Markers.

    • Railing Units takes part in Non-Combat Movement.
    • Any Land Unit can Move/Rail up 4 Territories. (I feel the range must be the same for all land units)
      -It has to start in a territory with a Rail Station Marker, but can stop/off-load in a territory with a Rail Station Marker OR Rail Marker.
      -The Rail Capacity is the same as the Territories IPC value. A Territory with a IPC value of 5 can rail up to 5 land units, this also the number of units it can receive. A territory with IPC value of example 3, can only Rail 3 or receive 3 railed units per turn/round. A territories Rail Capacity is the same as the territories IPC value.

    Rail Station Marker Cost : 10.IPC (Can both Rail/Receive Railed Units)
    Rail Marker Cost : 5.IPC (Can only Receive Railed Units)

    Or to make it more easy:

    Rail Station Marker [Cardbord] : Gives Land Units with a Movement of 2, +1 Movement and Land Units with Movement of 1, +2 Movement. This way you can Rail (Move) all Land Units, Infantry, Artillery, AA Guns, Mechanized Infantry and Tanks 3 Spaces/Territories. I think that would make sense.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    These aren’t made of cardboard.


  • Sponsor 2017 TripleA '11 '10

    @Gargantua:

    These aren’t made of cardboard.

    Right. They are colored acrylic with white paint inside the etched area. Same size as OOB bases (1/2" square).


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Sea Mine:

    Cost: 12 Attack: - Defense: - Move: -

    Unit Characteristics

    No Combat Value: Even though an AA gun can defend, either alone or with other units, it has a combat value of 0. This means that an AA gun cannot fire in the defending units fire step. It can, however, be taken as a casualty. If a territory containing AA guns and no combat units is attacked, the AA guns are automatically destroyed. AA guns may never attack.

    Placement Restrictions: Can only be placed adjacent to sea zones adjacent to originally controlled land areas. Only one can be built in each sea zone. If enemy naval units move into or pass this sea zone the sea mine may fire up to three times, but only once per attacking naval unit. For each “1” rolled, the attacker must choose one naval unit as a casualty. These casualties are removed immediately. Once this is done the naval units can continue movement. Each time an enemy naval unit is hit, one out of three sea mine rolls is not performed. The controller of the sea mine can pay 4 IPC to raise the level back to three, but never more than three total rolls.

    Rail Station:

    Cost: 12 Attack: - Defense: - Move: -

    These can only be build in original controlled areas and only one per territory. They allow up to 6 land units a movement of 3 spaces and they must start from Rail Station.
    Enemy players can damage these installations of up to 12 points. A Damage of 6 or more totally incapacitates the Station and a player may choose to restore all or part of its capability by spending IPC to get the damage under 6 points.

    Rail Markers:

    These are starting player Rail centers. They cant be damaged but allow movement of total land units equal to the IPC value of the territories transversed. The distance is unlimited but again these are only placed in original controlled areas ( players decide where these are placed: Example Trans- Siberian Railway)



  • @Imperious:

    Rail Markers:

    These are starting player Rail centers. They cant be damaged but allow movement of total land units equal to the IPC value of the territories transversed. The distance is unlimited but again these are only placed in original controlled areas ( players decide where these are placed: Example Trans- Siberian Railway)

    Hi IL

    Does the Rail Markers here cost the same as Rail Stations?
    Must the distance you railing Troops, be linked with Rail Markers?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    No the rail markers are kinda fixed at setup. They represent already build Historical railways. You cant build these and they can be damaged and you can repair and they only exist in your original areas. They allow transfer over a longer distance than say Rail Centers.

    Rail Centers are the ones that can be build in NEW areas that you originally start with.



  • @Imperious:

    No the rail markers are kinda fixed at setup. They represent already build Historical railways. You cant build these and they can be damaged and you can repair and they only exist in your original areas. They allow transfer over a longer distance than say Rail Centers.

    Rail Centers are the ones that can be build in NEW areas that you originally start with.

    Hi IL

    If I understand correct here, Rail Markers is used in YOUR ORIGINAL TERRITORIES you START the game with?,
    Example Germany and all of Germany/Axis Territories. Rail Stations/Centers can be BUILT in captured territories?, example Poland and/or Russian Territories you control at the beginning of your turn?
    And these cost 12 IPC and have a Rail Capacity of 6 Land Units and a Rail Range of 3?
    Does all the German Territories then start the game with a Rail Marker?, and they have a Rail Capacity equal to the territory IPC value and unlimited Rail Range Capacity?

    Lets take the A&A Europe 1940 Map as example with these Rail Rules:

    You can RAIL 3 Land Units from Holland Belgium IPC value 3 TO Poland IPC value 2?, or can Poland ONLY RECEIVE 2 RAILED Land Units because of the IPC value?

    Can Italy for example RAIL 3 Land Units from Southern Italy IPC value 3 TO Rumania IPC value 3?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Hi IL

    If I understand correct here, Rail Markers is used in YOUR ORIGINAL TERRITORIES you START the game with?,

    The disposition of these has yet to be determined. They are placed in original territories. Once case would be the trans Siberian railroad. A string of Rail Markers would be placed from Moscow all the way back to the Soviet Far East.  Consider Rail Markers starting rail capability, and Rail Centers are build by players

    Example Germany and all of Germany/Axis Territories. Rail Stations/Centers can be BUILT in captured territories?, example Poland and/or Russian Territories you control at the beginning of your turn?

    Rail Markers are not built. Only Centers can be built

    And these cost 12 IPC and have a Rail Capacity of 6 Land Units and a Rail Range of 3?

    Yes

    Does all the German Territories then start the game with a Rail Marker?, and they have a Rail Capacity equal to the territory IPC value and unlimited Rail Range Capacity?

    It has not been determined which or if any Germany areas will start with Rail Markers. Of course on turn 1 they can build a Rail Center

    Lets take the A&A Europe 1940 Map as example with these Rail Rules:

    You can RAIL 3 Land Units from Holland Belgium IPC value 3 TO Poland IPC value 2?, or can Poland ONLY RECEIVE 2 RAILED Land Units because of the IPC value?

    A Rail Center can move 6 units 3 spaces, but you must build these. If Germany ended up getting a starting Rail Marker representing a substantial historical railway, for the sake of discussion lets say they get one In Poland, another in Germany proper, another in North Italy, another in south Italy…they can move units technically 4 spaces but these are restricted along this path to transfer limited by which area has the lowest IPC.

    Another example:

    Area one has rail marker and is worth 2 IPC,  area two has rail marker and is worth 4 IPC, area three has rail marker and is worth 6 IPC  and area four has rail marker and is worth 3 IPC.

    You can move only two units to area four. From area four you can move three units as far as area two, or two units to area one. Each time units pass an area you subtract capability by one.

    Its the same rule as The War Game: World War Two.

    Can Italy for example RAIL 3 Land Units from Southern Italy IPC value 3 TO Rumania IPC value 3?

    yes


  • Customizer

    Here are my thoughts on Rail Stations/Rail Markers:
    Both items can be built:
    Rail Stations = 15 IPCs
    Rail Markers = 5 IPCs
    These pieces need to work together. In other words, a Rail Station with no Rail Markers in adjacent territories really does no good.]
    Units moved by rail on NON COMBAT MOVE ONLY.
    Rail Stations and Rail Markers can be built on ANY territory. Generally, you would probably want to build a Rail Station with your Industrial Complex, but you can build one on any territory if you like.
    Combat units can ONLY load at Rail Stations. They may offload in any territory with a Rail Marker (or another Rail Station).
    LIMITATIONS: The number of combat units loading onto a Rail Station by an IC is limited to the production capacity of that IC = Major IC = 10 units, Minor IC = 3 units. If a Rail Station is built in a territory with no IC, capacity is limited to the IPC value of that territory. These units may travel by rail and off load in ANY territory with a Rail Marker regardless of the IPC value of that territory. Rail capacity is determined by the Rail Station territory and NOT by the final destination territory.
    EXAMPLE: Germany has a Rail Station with it’s Major IC in Berlin and a Rail Marker in Poland. Germany conquers E Poland, Belarus and Smolensk. Germany purchases Rail Markers for each of these territories. Now Germany may place up to 10 new units in Berlin and on their next NCM can move those units all the way to Smolensk.
    DAMAGE: Both Rail Stations and Rail Markers may be damaged by enemy action.
    Rail Stations: May be SBRd just like Air and Naval Bases by Strategic and Tactical bombers. Three points of damage renders them inoperable, Maximum 6 points of damage.
    Rail Markers: These may also be SBRd. ONE (1) point of damage renders them inoperable, Maximum 3 points of damage.
    Rail markers may also be damaged by enemy presence in adjacent territories. There are two possibilities: Artillery and Infantry.
    Artillery : If there are any enemy artillery pieces in a territory adjacent to one of your rail lines, they may perform a “rail bombardment”. The enemy rolls a die. Any roll of 1, 2 or 3 will cause that amount of damage to the rail line. A roll of 4, 5 or 6 has no effect.
    Infantry : Any enemy territory with at least 2 or more infantry units in a territory adjacent to one of your rail lines may conduct a “special unit strike”. This is riskier and not as effective as an artillery strike. The enemy rolls 1 die. Only a roll of ONE (1) will cause damage of 1 point.
    EXAMPLE: Germany has Rail Markers in Poland, E Poland, Belarus and Smolensk. Russia still controlls W. Ukraine and has an artillery piece there. They call for an artillery strike against Germany’s rail marker in E Poland and roll a “2”. Germany’s rail line in E Poland now has 2 points of damage and is unusable. So, Now Germany must first repair that rail line before transferring troops from Berlin to Smolensk for the final push on Moscow.
    SPECIAL NOTE: Any damage is repaired like with any other facility during the Purchase/Repair phase and can be used in the NCM of that turn. The infantry and artillery attackes on enemy rail lines occur just before the rail line owner’s NCM. In this way, a defending player will actually be able to hamper an attacker’s movement. This  would require a potential attacker to protect his rail lines by securing adjacent territories. (Otherwise, USSR could damage the rail line but Germany would simply repair it the next turn and move the reinforcements anyway, causing USSRs damage strike to be useless other than costing Germany 1-3 IPCs of damage repair).
    As for starting setup, perhaps ALL players should have to purchase both Rail Stations and Rail Markers. Or, perhaps certain countries might start with a Rail Station in their capital and have to purchase any new Stations and all Rail Markers to use them. If that were the case, I would say at setup, only place Rail Stations in Moscow, Berlin, Paris, Rome and perhaps Washington. Perhaps also Calcutta. ( Tokyo, London and Sydney wouldn’t really benefit from Rail Stations or Rail Markers anyway).


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Alot of times the truth is finally found on the backs of countless attempts to solve.

    I like the idea above but would suggest further refinements:

    Rail Center: Can only be built in originally controlled areas that contain a factory ( either starting or built). These cost 15 IPC and can take damage points equal to the total IPC value of the area. A Rail Center is nothing unless it also has a series of connected Rail Markers leading from it to outlying areas.

    Rail Markers: Cost 6 IPC each and are placed adjacent to Rail Centers or connected from another territory to another Rail Marker. These can be bombed for a Maximum of 3 damage points. These can be built in any land areas as long as its connected from a chain of Rail Markers leading back to a friendly factory.

    Value: Units starting in a Rail Center or along the connected Rail Marker areas may move along the path up to the last Rail Marker. This is limited to land units to the total IPC of the originating Rail Center, so if it leaves Berlin up to 10 units can travel along the path.

    All movement is performed during the NCM sequence.

    If damage is sustained against the Rail Center, the total units to be moved is reduced by total undamaged points.
    If any Rail Marker is damaged at 3 points by SBR ( Tactical or Strategic Bomber), units must stop movement in that area and may not travel further. Damage by less than 3 points still allows transfer.

    Sabotage: If enemy units enter the area where you got a Rail Marker or Center automatically destroy it. Enemy adjacent units from a Rail marker do not have any effect as long as you got your own units protecting.


  • Customizer

    Good idea on the SABOTAGE IL. If you have units in your territory with a Rail Marker, enemy units in an adjacent territory can NOT damage your rail line.

    I’m glad you agree on the max 3 points of damage to Rail Markers. I thought they should be inoperable with any damage, but perhaps you are right that 1 or 2 points should still allow travel, like air and naval bases.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yea i want to stick to something close to AB or NB, which is half of twelve. So since this is 6 IPC the total damage of 3 wrecks the Rail Marker. 1-2 can be repaired.

    Also, not a fan of the “artillery/infantry shoots adjacent thing”. You can only wreck the Rail marker/Center by attacking the area and destroying enemy units, or moving into the space ( overrun) that the enemy left vacant.

    Need to stay away from chrome and make is simple.


  • Customizer

    Yeah, now that you mention it, the idea of artillery/infantry in adjacent territories being able to damage rail lines isn’t that good. Scrap that idea.

    Something else occurred to me. Since Rail Stations and Rail Markers can be SBRd by Tac and Strat bombers, what about AA defense? I figured that Rail Stations would be big enough to have AA defense like Air and Naval bases and ICs, but what about Rail Markers? Should they also have AA capability? Or should you have to buy an AA Gun and move it to that territory?

    One more thing, you mentioned if an enemy force takes a territory with a Rail Marker, it is automatically destroyed. I was kind of thinking that Rail Stations and Rail Markers would be like Bases and ICs, subject to capture and use by enemy forces.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    what about AA defense? I figured that Rail Stations would be big enough to have AA defense like Air and Naval bases and ICs, but what about Rail Markers? Should they also have AA capability? Or should you have to buy an AA Gun and move it to that territory?

    OK so you propose the same rule as AB NB with a fixed ONE ROLL defense?  Remember most builds of Rail Centers will be in major factories that already have a fixed defense and probably an AA GUN defense. The other way is to have players build AA guns along the path as you know.

    One more thing, you mentioned if an enemy force takes a territory with a Rail Marker, it is automatically destroyed. I was kind of thinking that Rail Stations and Rail Markers would be like Bases and ICs, subject to capture and use by enemy forces.

    Hmmmm. I prefer whatever idea ends up being the same as AB, NB, Factory. In the latter case the Major is reduced to minor. Id say at a minimum, the Rail marker is automatically reduced to 3 damage ( more than that wrecks it)

    Rail center should be reduced to maximum damage ( equal to IPC of area)


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    So where we at on these markers?

    [u][b]Rail Station:[/b][/u]

    Cost: 12-15 Attack: - Defense: - Move: -

    These can only be build in controlled areas that contain a factory and only one per territory. If placed in an area that contains a major factory they can move 10 units, and 3 if placed in a minor factory, and they must start from Rail Station. If the factory is damaged the  rail movement is equal to placement value.

    Rail Stations have a fixed AA defense of 1 roll like AB or NB.

    In order to move units you must also build Rail Markers to indicate direction of travel.

    [u][b]Rail Markers:[/b][/u]

    These markers cost 6 IPC each and allow land units to move from rail station along whatever path of Rail Markers have been built. They can be damaged by SBR up to six points. the first points reduce the number of land units that may move to a total of 6. ( if the Rail Station starts with a major factory you may still move 4 units) The distance is unlimited as long as you built a connected line of Rail Markers. Rail markers have no fixed AA gun defense. If the enemy captures the area where a Rail Marker is present, it is destroyed.


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