UK barbarossa strategies

I don’t understand.
If you buy those transports on R2 and don’t get the payoff of Sealion, how will you deal with the Russia?
Sure, they won’t be able to stack up in Leningrad, but he doesn’t have to in order to make your life difficult.

UK can build in Cpr/Irq and Saf to pressure Italy.  A couple carrier from US would definitely help in the Atlantic fight.

The transports are an insurance policy against America.  America and England now have to consider a Sea Lion attack which denies then a complex in Egypt and troops in S. Africa for a while.  Meanwhile, Germany’s going to need those blasted transports anyway, at least now it’s done and over with.  They can end run around the Russians meaning the Russians have to hold back to boot.

Let me say it a different way.  Round 1 and Round 2 go as if Sea Lion for Germany.  I don’t care if you want to do Sea Lion or not, this will endeavor to keep the allies guessing as to your intentions.

I agree that it would pressure UK heavily.  UK will have to turtle longer than normal.

But you’re assuming Germany would need to build those transports either way.
I have no idea why you’re making that assumption.
You do that and Russia’s already beating you in the land war.
I don’t see how you can counter a Russian stack in East Poland.

If you buy 10 transports on G2, I won’t be “guessing” at all.  I’m going to assume you’re going for a Sealion.  If you choose to switch gears, that’s even better for me.
London is still Allied, and you don’t get the Sealion payoff.

Alsch:

Yes, I think Germany needs the transports anyway.  For the following:

1. You CAN land in England, if he doesnt defend.
2. You can land in Africa if needed.
3. You can land all along the Russian northern border both from teh Arctic Ocean and the Baltic Sea

Noll:

If Germany buys, for instance, 10 infantry, I buy a complex in Egpyt and start turtling all my forces there as best I can, using S. Africa to augment the Indian fleet.

Note Germany can still Sea Lion if they do a 10 Inf purchase on G1.

G3 Sea Lion just consists of 8 TT (1 Starting + 7 purchased + 1 CV purchased).

If UK1 doesn’t put Inf out on London, you can still Sea Lion effectively.  Particularly with a very strong SBR on G2.  I’ve done it.

So spending 12 IPC on a Minor in Egypt and putting 10-12 IPC in S.Africa sets you up for it.

Even with G2 ending with 8 TT, thats 8 Inf and some combination of Arm/Art that can land in Archangel or Nov on G3 if the UK went defensive.

Combined with an attack on G3 from Poland on the Baltics (Supported with Arm from the French Invasion) you can have solid stacks on G3 that end up in the Baltics and Arch, effectively surrounding Leningrad for G4.  Just so happens if Leningrad falls to Germany on G4, the Japs can land their entire air Force on Leningrad on J4 (need AB at Suiy).  Thats not a pretty sight for the Russians.

A UK1 complex in Egpyt isnt going to take all your cash, you have a lot left for home defense.

UK1 - 28 IPC
1 Inf, 1 Art, 1 TT (S.Africa) - 14 IPC
1 Arm, 1 Inf, 1 Art (London) - 13 IPC
Bank 1 IPC

Combat:
Attack SZ96 with Tac (off CV in SZ98) Ftr (Malta) DD (SZ98) Bomber (London) - Land all Aircraft on Malta

NCM:
Retreat CV and CR (SZ98) to SZ81
Fly Ftr/Tac (Calcutta) to SZ81 - Land on CV
Retreat from Alexandria to Cairo
Move TT (SZ39) to SZ80 - Bring 1 Art from India and drop in Persia
Move Inf (W.India) to E.Persia
Move TT (SZ98) to SZ80 - Yes, Empty

Ignoring other possible moves as I’m illustrating a point, End UK1

Now UK2 you should have 35ish IPC to spend.

Ignoring purchases, this is what you move to Egypt:
1 TT with 1 Inf/Art from S.Africa
1 TT from SZ80 bringing 1 Inf/Art from Persia
1 TT from SZ80 bringing 1 Inf from Persia, 1 Inf from E.Persia
You can also fly 1 Ftr, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber into Egypt from Malta, as well as fly 1 Ftr/Tac from the CV in SZ81.
All of these ships are behind the Suez and cannot be reached except if I1 stages its Bomber in Rome - which is why it makes sense to leave aircraft on the CV.

Thats 4 Inf, 2 Art, 2 Ftr, 2 Tac and 1 Bomber that CAN move into Egypt on UK2.  Italy isn’t going to be taking Egypt anytime soon and is going to have to be VERY careful about exposing its fleet to 5 aircraft, 1 CV and potentially 2 CR (SZ81 / SZ91).  EDIT I forgot there is a UK DD and French DD that can also be staged in SZ81 at the start of UK2.

To further compound the Italian situation, there are now 3 TT that can move aggressively from SZ81 on UK3 into any Italian held territories in the Med.

This gets even worse for Italy if on G1 both TT/DD combos in SZ’s109 and 106 survived.

Potentially UK3 could land 6 Inf, 3 Art, 1 Arm on S.France, N.Italy or Rome which would be VERY unwelcome for the Axis in any of those locations.

I don’t see a single reason to buy a Minor in Egypt on UK1 - the units won’t arrive (at best) until the end of UK2 and even then you are only landing 3 Inf there.  I’m not sure if Italy can take Egypt any later than I3 without exposing Rome to potential Allied landings prior to I4/I5.

a little too light on london purchases, might be tempting to do round 2 sea lion with germany.

Well lets look at it:

1 Minor leaves 16 IPC to place in London which equates to something along the lines of 5 Inf Bank 1 or 4 Inf, 1 Art Bank 0.

My purchase only changes the units on London slightly (from 5 units to 3 units).  I can put more pressure in Italy from the get-go without completely sacrificing two rounds of purchases for 3 Inf on Egypt.

Consider this:  If G1 is 10 Inf, there really isn’t much of a reason to scramble over SZ110 and SZ111.  Of course, you still can and try to shoot down some aircraft which deters Sea Lion outright.

However look at it this way:  G2 is going to have to either have both the BB and CR survive to give 8-10 TT a chance to cross the Channel or it will need to buy a CV on G2 which means at most 8 TT are coming on G3 Sea Lion.  By not scrambling, you force Germany to have to fly aircraft into SZ110 in a G3 Sea Lion or face the potential of at a minimum 3 Ftr scrambling.

You can reinforce this on UK2 with a CV purchase and possibly 1 Ftr (I forget if its 35 or 36 ending IPC).  With a potential CR, two DD and a CV with 2 Ftr and 3 scrambling over it you have effectively removed the German aircraft from hitting London anyways because Germany is going to have to divert multiple aircraft to address 4-5 Ftr, 1 CV (absorbs 2 hits right away), 1 CR, up to two DD.

Even if Germany decided to land all the units, its going to have to face the music of losing a ton of aircraft in the process - which is a primary tenet of the European Allied Strategy.

And realistically I don’t think two less units on London will make a HUGE difference in the German determination, whereas 5 Ftr and a CV would if G1 did not include ships to support G3 Sea Lion.

@Cow:

a little too light on london purchases, might be tempting to do round 2 sea lion with germany.

This is based off no TT purchases on G1 meaning Germany only has 1 TT for G2.  UK London will have the following for G2 to look at:

Any remaining remaining aircraft from UK1.
7 Inf (2 Starting, 1 Purchased, 2 French, 2 NCM from Scotland)
1 Art (Purchased)
1 Mech (Starting)
1 Arm (Purchased)
5 AA (4 Starting, 1 NCM from Scotland)

I’m almost 100% positive Germany is not going to send its entire Air Force and 2 ground units to London on G2 with its single TT with the first 5 hits being absorbed by AA guns.  Even if Germany manages to break through the 5 AA guns, it still needs to get 10 more hits to take London.

Now the door is still open for G3 Sea Lion, but with a lesser contingent landing, which is fine because UK2 can be a full Inf Purchase (minus potential SBR damage) and I do not think 2 less Inf on London makes a world of difference to a German Sea Lion Plan - which for all intensive purposes should NOT include a 10 Inf purchase on G1.

I have not decided if scrambling on G1 is a good idea or not for London with a 10 Inf purchase on G1.

A lot probably depends on what G1 does in SZ111 and SZ110.  SZ110 is interesting because with no DD present, the German SS cannot be used as fodder against 3 Ftr rolling @4 which means you have the potential to reach into sinking a german aircraft or two.   I don’t think I’d scramble if the BB went to SZ110 along with 2 SS.  I’d save the Aircraft at that point and take my chances with the dice on London - you are just throwing those aircraft to the wolves with 2 absorbed hits to the BB before you can break through.

I don’t particularly care for scrambling the Ftr in Scotland because the DD present allows Germany to take SS as fodder before cutting into a BB or aircraft.  I’d rather save the Ftr for London later if Sea Lion does occur.  If it doesn’t, I have that many more Ftr to reinforce US landings in Europe later.

keep the french fighter there at least. germany can still buy 1 dd 8-9 transports (has to buy dd so you can’t sub defend). 18 man drop with 9-10 air .

as far as scrambling goes, don’t. if germany does it right you should only have 10% to win and it ruins your odds on 97, because without a fighter from uk, sz 97 is  52% with just a bomber from uk.

@Noll:

I wish I could give “stars” or thumbs up to spendo, your detailed analysis rocks.

We used to allow that.  It didn’t work out, some of us ended up with thousands of positive and hundreds of negative because people logged in to only bump or slam someone.

hey garg’s tournament thingy play jen.

Still don’t understand why you always buy 10 transports germany 2 if you aren’t going sealion. I’d literally beat you everygame jen. Russia would be so strong it’s ridiculous. so what if you can take lenningrad easily. I almost always give it up anyways. No reason to try and hold it if germany can just go right by it and take moscow and then come back and take lenningrad.

I concur.  70 ipc that is not mech/tank is pretty good. also I am stacked up for romania when you make such a purchase. so you take leningrad but I get my bonuses for a bit?