• @Mallery29:

    Friend and I have tried it against each other using the same strat.� Usually, we see the US abandon the Pacific, so I’m not assuming anything (don’t know where you got that but sorry if you got confused by my writing…didn’t mean that to happen). I’m not counting on the sub to working to win, but if I’m looking for an opening attack that can hit the Allies the hardest, it has to be that…therefore, it’s opening attack everytime for me.� You say you can hit on US3 for W. Europe, but I guarantee you won’t hit with 5 fighters, 2 tanks, and about 9-10inf depending on the Russian Front.

    The US doesn’t have to hit. It only has to draw German forces away from Russia as you described and thus it affects events on Europe right from US2-3.
    Going back the math above, you need to send 7-8 inf and 2 arm to W. Europe to defend it, from new builds. So now Germany only has 37 IPCs do deal with the Soviets’ own 85 IPC total income during those rounds. And less the units sent to Africa.

    � You are right about the destroyer in the path…I find that an effective tool to keep the German subs at bay.
    As for the Japanese, I only concern myself with the subs if I see a buildup of subs in the Pacific.� By keeping 2 BBs and 2 armed carriers protecting my land bridge, I find I’ll have copious time to plant destroyers to counter the approaching subs.� The two Allied Pacific subs are of no threat

    They can be a true nuisance if you are planning to land units on Africa or Australia. You can only cover 2 locations and you usually already have to cover SZ60 and FIC.

    unless they decide to form a wolfpack, but that mean the US is contributing a lot of resources to the Pacific, and thus, hinders the Atlantic, thus giving Germany its victory.� And if the US is going to try to send bombers to take out that fleet, I can again put down enough fodder of DDs to make any attack suicide against six 4s and two 2s (not counting any DDs that would be down)

    Why would the US want to use bombers to try to threaten SZ60 or even build subs for the Pacific if you are not going KJF? If you are playing against a Japanese noob, yeah the bombers may work.


  • @Alsch91:

    Russia will never stack Ukraine if you have land/air forces in range to destroy them.  That will never happen if Russia isn’t bone-headed.

    I disagree. Russia SHOULD stack Ukraine, if it forces Germany to attack and achieve suffer a Phyrric victory on G2-4. The Russians may get blooded but there’s no way Germany afterwards can stop the Allies on Europe and Japan will still be too far away to conquer Russia soon.

    What usually happens is that Germany NEVER attacks on this situation because the Allies just created a ‘let’s play chicken position’. Unless the German player wants to risk its luck they will back off and not attack Ukraine. Which suits the Allies proposes just as fine, since they took away initiative from the Axis in Europe and denied Germany 3 IPCs from Ukraine.


  • France starts w/2 inf + 1 inf from Ger + 1 inf S. Europe, 2inf from G1, 3 from G2 = 9inf.


  • ack…hit wrong button…ok, continuing, I’m not saying that the US would/should buy bombers, I’m just saying if they DID buy them, my defense will hold.  If I’m looking to pluck AK/Hawaii/NZ/Aus away from the Allies, I will commit a carrier w/BB escort with a transport to handle the infedels…that still provides a carrier w/BB protecting the land bridge.  If Borneo fell at the beginning, I would just use the south battle group  to handle the cruiser and bring a transport with phillipinos and planes from the carrier to erradicate the British population. J2, they reunite around Japan crushing Burtyia (2BB, 6 planes, 1 bomber, tank, art, 6inf). Goodbye Russian backdoor. (J1 was 3inf/3trans)


  • I also understood what he meant about the subs…but one sub versus a BB and carrier (understand the planes can’t attack), but you’re telling me a sub has at least a 50% chance of winning this (or at least eliminating the carrier and BB?)?  Not going to happen.  Stranger things have happened, but c’mon man! Then if I do get a DD on J2, I still should have plenty of cash to buy at least 6inf to ensure a full load to dump on Asia (due to origianl numbers, I should have 2 units left over on Japan), and toy around in the Pacific with Aus/NZ.


  • All this hurts my head and is ruining my homework…I’m trying to learn Global here so I can be ready and bring pride to the Allies.


  • @Mallery29:

    France starts w/2 inf + 1 inf from Ger + 1 inf S. Europe, 2inf from G1, 3 from G2 = 9inf.

    I could 7 inf, since you didn’t specify where the other 2 inf from G1 come from. But let’s do the full math then, shall we?

    Starting ground forces:

    • Soviet Union - 18 INF, 2 ART, 4 ARM (Total Unit Value - 82 IPCs). This excludes the 6 INF on the Far East territories.
    • Germany - 19 INF, 3 ART, 8 ARM (TUV - 112) - excludes African units, 2 INF left to defend W. Europe and INF + ART from S. Europe sent to attack Egypt.

    Assuming a R1 attack on West Russia and Ukraine with average losses, that results in -32 for Germany and -27 to 32 for the Soviets. Leaving a total of 80 TUV for Germany and 52 TUV for Russia. Russia buys 3 INF, 3 ARM, raising its total to 82 TUC.

    Germany buys 3 INF, 5 ARM and 1 SUB on G1, kills the Russian armor on Ukraine, losing 1-2, depending on the number of units there. Total of units present on the Eastern front, 113-75

    Russia buys 29 IPC, attacks Karelia, Belo and Ukraine, retaking all, and killing 3 INF while losing 1-2 INF.Total of units present on the Eastern front, 104-99

    G2: Germany buys 1 ftr, and 32 IPC of ground units. Sends 5 INF to W. Europe and 1 INF + 1 ARM to Africa. Attacks the 3 Eastern territories with at least 6 INF and loses 2 INF, depending on Soviet infantry remaining, lets assume a total of 4 on the territories. Total: 107-87

    R3: Russia buys 31 IPC, attacks Karelia, Belo and Ukraine, retaking all, and killing 4 INF while losing 2 INF.Total of units present on the Eastern front, 92-96

    G3: Germany buys 1 ftr and 32 IPC of ground units. Sends 2 INF and 2 ARM to W. Europe, 1 INF and 1 ARM to Africa? That leaves only 8 TUV left to be sent towards Russia and it still has to find units to attack the 3 territories, otherwise it is losing income and leaving Soviet forces intact.

    R4: UK retakes Karelia on UK3. Russia stacks Ukraine.


  • @Mallery29:

    ack…hit wrong button…ok, continuing, I’m not saying that the US would/should buy bombers, I’m just saying if they DID buy them, my defense will hold.  If I’m looking to pluck AK/Hawaii/NZ/Aus away from the Allies, I will commit a carrier w/BB escort with a transport to handle the infedels…that still provides a carrier w/BB protecting the land bridge.  If Borneo fell at the beginning, I would just use the south battle group  to handle the cruiser and bring a transport with phillipinos and planes from the carrier to erradicate the British population. J2, they reunite around Japan crushing Burtyia (2BB, 6 planes, 1 bomber, tank, art, 6inf). Goodbye Russian backdoor. (J1 was 3inf/3trans)

    And meanwhile the Allies remove Germany from Africa, and stall the Japanese advance through China and India. All because Japan leaves its fleet on SZ60 on the assumption that the US may choose to build bombers or Russia may decide to commit hara-kiri by moving its 6 INF to Buryatia on R2…

    That strategy doesn’t work on the long run. Japan needs to pressure the Allies as quickly as possible on Asia/Africa, otherwise the Allies will outproduce the Axis.


  • @Hobbes:

    I disagree. Russia SHOULD stack Ukraine, if it forces Germany to attack and achieve suffer a Phyrric victory on G2-4.

    Ah okay, interesting.  Fair enough.
    I’m more proficient in Global; moves like that tend to blow up in your face more often in that version, considering the scale of the game.

    @Mallery29:

    If I’m looking to pluck AK/Hawaii/NZ/Aus away from the Allies, I will commit a carrier w/BB escort with a transport to handle the infedels…that still provides a carrier w/BB protecting the land bridge.

    We weren’t suggesting that a sub will be able to take down a CV/BB escort.
    Rather-
    If you do that, you have to have your remaining TTs in only one group, right?  Only 60 or 36.  You can’t do both, with subs ready in the Pacific.  That’s a big roadblock, if you can’t split up your mainland shucks.


  • @Alsch91:

    @Hobbes:

    I disagree. Russia SHOULD stack Ukraine, if it forces Germany to attack and achieve suffer a Phyrric victory on G2-4.

    Ah okay, interesting. � Fair enough.
    I’m more proficient in Global; moves like that tend to blow up in your face more often in that version, considering the scale of the game.

    This is risky as well, but if I saw Germany piling up on planes this is the key move for the Allies to make.


  • See, the problem is you guys are buying the units I’m not buying.  I realize this was originally an air power post, and I originally said I think air power is a G3 to 5 move for me because I keep planes in France/Germany as a deterent for invasion/IB (I know I leave S. Europe open, but I can’t cover every flank with this strat.).  I understand your math, and agree with you, if I were buying planes…but I’m not…not yet…therefore my force on E.Europe hovers and prevents stacking in Ukraine unless you are willing to go with out air coverage.  And that’s what I’m hinting at…stack away…without an AA or aircraft, your stack is target practice for the Germans.  Weinershcniztel for everyone!


  • @Mallery29:

    See, the problem is you guys are buying the units I’m not buying.

    I had a different idea:

    @Mallery29:

    You’ll find by G3 a force of 6 fighters, 2 bomber, and 6 subs will handle anything the allies can muster.

    The purchase of a 2nd bomber and 1 addtional subs drops even more the stats I mentioned above (assuming average G losses of 2 ftrs and 1 sub on round 1).

    G3 to 5 move for me because I keep planes in France/Germany as a deterent for invasion/IB (I know I leave S. Europe open, but I can’t cover every flank with this strat.).

    Wise. I like to keep Western Europe stacked with as many Axis planes as possible to give the Allies a headache on the Atlantic. And with both W. Europe and Germany secure you don’t really have to control S. Europe at the beginning of the German round unless you want to make all infantry buys.

    I understand your math, and agree with you, if I were buying planes…but I’m not…not yet…therefore my force on E.Europe hovers and prevents stacking in Ukraine unless you are willing to go with out air coverage.  And that’s what I’m hinting at…stack away…without an AA or aircraft, your stack is target practice for the Germans.  Weinershcniztel for everyone!

    If you are not initially buying planes for Germany (and 1 sub each round is useless since the Allies can easily destroy/block it) then it gets suicidal for the Soviets to stack Ukraine and, depending on a number of factors, Germany may be able to stack either Karelia or Ukraine on the initial rounds, which is one of its primary objectives during the initial game.
    Another option I like is to add a 2nd bomber right on G1, less risky but it can still tip the balance towards the Soviets as I mentioned on the previous thread. Regardless of the buy, the Allies always have problems, specially if Japan brings its entire airforce to W. Europe.


  • I got tired of seeing the Axis win, so I thought, frak it, have the Brits buy carriers, and I support with nothing but fighters and bombers (since fighters can’t provide escort into Germany)….so the mo’fo brings all 6 Japan fighters to Berlin when I had Bombers into position.  At least the nuclear blast in S. Europe was beautiful. 
    Done the 2nd Bomber.  I like it.
    When I buy fighters, I stop buying subs…understand that the Brits can block it, but they’ll be expending cash they can’t afford…Besides, if they’re spending money to block my subs, who the hell is going to take out the BB?  The Russians?  They can’t afford to lose fighters.

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