Japan strategy


  • TripleA

    the problem with the whole caroline island big stack thing is… you can already do pearl harbor round 1 without a counter attack occuring… so you put that off for round 2… those same units are with anzac, with a bship added a dd and cruiser added plus the pinoy dd sub… and you have the exact same attack to do, but with so much more stuff added in… that you may as well have gone to war round 1.



  • True, but from Carolines you can threaten much more territory.
    In addition, your transports wil be in much better position - and greater numbers - than in J1.


  • TripleA

    nah you want your boats down  by FIC and kwangtung. 1 boat on caroline. so you can grab cash islands round 2 japan.

    3 starting boats = 3 islands. boats you buy reach pinoy for 1 more island.

    caroline is just out of position. sometimes you can do calcutta 3-4 if allies aren’t conservative so you have to take advantage. putting stuff in caroline allows allies to do more because your force is spread out a bit more. can’t get every air piece on burma for example etc etc.

    you want allies to be conservative. you have to maintain your fame and take advantage of having overkill for whatever you do. single out china single out calcutta etc etc.
    ~
    game is won or lost for japan in calcutta. you can’t win pacific without it (unless you had a blow out and took hawaii and anzac… it can happen if usa does something stupid).



  • You give up a lot of positioning to the allies. Without a stack in carolines + build in japan, us will stage in hawaii. This means they’re one turn closer to the Anzac and oftentimes they can grab carolines right off the bat if your fleet is in sz36. I might change my tune a little bit if you’re buying a NB on say hainan, but I’m still opposed to staging all your fleet there. Some of it? Yes, definitely. But all of it? Nah, not so much unless india is wide open and is worth losing positioning for.

    The longer you can keep the USN out of sz33 & sz26 the better. A USN fleet stage off of WUS isn’t going to do the allies much good. Keep them separated from linking with the anzacs. Now you can kill whatever reins US sent the anzacs way US1 + the anzac fleet in piecemeal and put a dent in the allied boats in the water before they link up. Or at the least you can worry the allies that that’s what you’ll do.



  • @Vance:

    An airbase in Suiyuyan puts 20ish air units in German occupied Novgorod as early as turn 4 (seriously look at the map!).

    LOL!


  • TripleA

    Either way it is obvious you people aren’t winning games in pacific, because you are not playing the game.
    ~
    Caroline stack just makes usa block you with destroyers from sinking his fleet, except your naval will not reach malaya or sumatra (you can have a small fleet get there).
    ~

    The main reason why you are a complete idiot is 8 fighters 5 tacticals and 2 bombers has only 70% odds on burma. (assume sz 38 picks up malaya and uses that to take an island and moves everything up to burma). also avg 3-4 units left.

    add the 6 air from caroline we are looking at 99.999% odds with 12-13 units left. calcutta after that will be cake, because sending 6 extra air in the mix will end up killing the units faster so you don’t take so many losses (you end up with 3-4 extra survivors).

    also if he moves out to burma, he has to block your transports from dropping burma.

    But if you are going to give me 30% chance to hold burma as allies… I’ll take it.


  • TripleA

    as japan you have clear cut objectives in terms of vcs, sinking USA is not going to happen, he’ll always block you with a dd or something if he has to.

    you should focus on making more money, because you start the game making less than what china+uspac+anzac make. money is an issue. you risk running out of steam not capitalizing on islands and asia. the americans are a sideshow till round 4-7 when they can actually make a decent attempt at sinking you… (I only buy transports and 1 artillery round 1, round 2 I buy airbase and couple minors, japan only needs 3 inf and the 3 aa gun and maybe a fighter to hold).

    J3 is when I start considering naval purchases



  • @Cow:

    as japan you have clear cut objectives in terms of vcs, sinking USA is not going to happen, he’ll always block you with a dd or something if he has to.

    Not before DOW. J2 I always build a carrier. That makes 3 up at Pearl Harbor, plus support. That’s tough for USA to handle.


  • TripleA

    it doesn’t matter i stay in hawaii no matter what.you can only get air on it and even if you get enough usa has a decent counter attack.

    you give up so much in terms of money you could gain off dutch islands by buying naval round 1.

    not to mention usa generally brings ships, uk pac is what gets men and if you delay taking the isles from UK pac… then you are just asking for a rough time in mainland asia.

    plus if you are buying a carrier on J1. that is 8 air units that cannot hit burma or a chinese stack on szech. 9 inf plus 1 fighter with 8 air pieces… typically gonna get 5 air units killed should you choose to hit it. (the chinese fighter loss is also not a huge issue for china, because after that it moves in one giant lump stack… also uk pac can push for money with less panda express threat on calcutta/burma
    ~
    generally speaking japan starts to lose when it fights usa naval before round 4 (aside from blockers).


  • TripleA

    I recommend playing a tighter game, especially for people new to pacific. Set yourself up for J2 war, in all honesty all you need is a transport couple carrier some of your starting subs and dd in caroline if you want him to sit in hawaii.

    then you move on regardless on what usa does. you get the islands, you need to make cash before you can start to worry about sinking america. USA will gladly get sunk knowing that he’s being bait so china/USpac can merge, which is Japan’s worst nightmare.
    ~

    you are fighting four countries. the least important is USA, because fighting him is not profitable. his naval is the strongest, but he is also the first to act after your turn ends. so you shouldn’t be losing transports round 1. Japan is easy to play once you understand where the money is and how to get it.
    ~
    When playing japan this is all you need to know:

    GET THE MONEY AND MAINTAIN THE FAME.

    When all your naval and all your air is in one spot, nothing can come close to you. all that cheddar is on those dutch/spice islands. you don’t need much in terms of inf to kill china… you get enough starting ground forces to do it, because your attacks come in 3 and 4 rolls and his attack come in 1s only with a single 3.

    calcutta is also much easier the sooner you cut into his income and so is the entire game, you want to cut india to 6-7 ipc sooner than later, it makes taking him over easier or simply just containing him for the remainder of the game.



  • @Cow:

    it doesn’t matter i stay in hawaii no matter what.you can only get air on it and even if you get enough usa has a decent counter attack.

    you give up so much in terms of money you could gain off dutch islands by buying naval round 1.

    not to mention usa generally brings ships, uk pac is what gets men and if you delay taking the isles from UK pac… then you are just asking for a rough time in mainland asia.

    plus if you are buying a carrier on J1. that is 8 air units that cannot hit burma or a chinese stack on szech. 9 inf plus 1 fighter with 8 air pieces… typically gonna get 5 air units killed should you choose to hit it. (the chinese fighter loss is also not a huge issue for china, because after that it moves in one giant lump stack… also uk pac can push for money with less panda express threat on calcutta/burma
    ~
    generally speaking japan starts to lose when it fights usa naval before round 4 (aside from blockers).

    I said J2 carrier, J3 DOW


  • TripleA

    Why would anyone ever wait till japan 3 to declare war? I need a feasible scenario that would make japan want to do this. I can see waiting for J2, being a more conservative player and also allowing germany a little breathing room.

    J3 is just too much advantage for the allies in the pacific, J2 is the round you want to go, because allies generally pick up a few dutch islands… you can’t let them have that, too much infs for india is no good that one.



  • @Cow:

    Why would anyone ever wait till japan 3 to declare war? I need a feasible scenario that would make japan want to do this. I can see waiting for J2, being a more conservative player and also allowing germany a little breathing room.

    J3 is just too much advantage for the allies in the pacific, J2 is the round you want to go, because allies generally pick up a few dutch islands… you can’t let them have that, too much infs for india is no good that one.

    Which version?



  • To give Germany/Italy the best breathing room possible while retaining your offensive options in the Pacific.
    That’s the best reason.
    And the amount the US is investing in the Pacific does influence your strategic choices, including DoW turn.



  • Does it matter if Japan wins or if Germany/Italy wins for the Axis?

    Answer: No.

    Does Japan attacking early put the Germans and Italians at a disadvantage early?

    Answer:  Yes

    Is the US going to spend more IPC on Europe if it can DOW on US1?

    Answer:  Not likely if Japan is already collecting 30+ IPC, poised to make it 45+ by the end of J2, Calcutta is still facing annihilation, and the Allies are crippled in the Pacific.  In fact, I think the exact opposite will happen for the Axis in Europe.  The US can be so over-invested in the Pacific that it actually HELPS the Axis in Europe.

    As the early US purchased vouched by many people on these boards is Pacific, Pacific, Pacific - why would Japan wait to get the money to face a fleet that matches the Japanese fleet but without the income it could have had.  I think that is Cows’ point.

    Besides, playing turtle for Japan until J3 is an economic failure as the Allied economy gets to be 2.5 times as large as Japan’s in the Pacific.  You might as well just attack Russia on J1 and march to Moscow as Japan every game because you sure aren’t winning the game in the Pacific.


  • TripleA

    Does it matter if Japan wins or if Germany/Italy wins for the Axis?

    Answer: No.

    Does Japan attacking early put the Germans and Italians at a disadvantage early?

    Answer:  Yes

    Is the US going to spend more IPC on Europe if it can DOW on US1?

    Answer:  Not likely if Japan is already collecting 30+ IPC, poised to make it 45+ by the end of J2, Calcutta is still facing annihilation, and the Allies are crippled in the Pacific.  In fact, I think the exact opposite will happen for the Axis in Europe.  The US can be so over-invested in the Pacific that it actually HELPS the Axis in Europe.

    As the early US purchased vouched by many people on these boards is Pacific, Pacific, Pacific - why would Japan wait to get the money to face a fleet that matches the Japanese fleet but without the income it could have had.  I think that is Cows’ point.

    Besides, playing turtle for Japan until J3 is an economic failure as the Allied economy gets to be 2.5 times as large as Japan’s in the Pacific.  You might as well just attack Russia on J1 and march to Moscow as Japan every game because you sure aren’t winning the game in the Pacific.

    You explained it so much better than I could have ever. touche.

    So many allied victories are coming because Japan just gets shut down. Even when russia falls, UK pacific becomes the new russia with 30 ipc income… convoy disruptions on japan by ANZAC/USA pac fleets. japan making 0.

    then ANZAC gets a supply train going to egypt.  It is really funny how stupid the game looks when it is everyone vs germany/italy.
    ~
    What is really ironic is that I am one of those USA players that chant PACIFIC PACIFIC PACIFIC. 🙂

    I mean I have no restriction of movement in the pacific, so if my opponent waits for war till J3… I get the full might of america in to the mix. Where as I would be chin chillin in the atlantic twiddling my thumbs. Not to mention I can merge anzac/UK/USA into one giant fleet to guard those islands. It is so stupid how fast the allies can push when japan waits for DOW J3.



  • This is starting to make sense- granted w/o trying it yet.  You’re right, I know for a fact Allies can sack Japan EVERY time if Japan waits til J3 to DOW- its almost like clockwork.  I think I’m gonna try a J2 and maybe a J1 in my next Axis games.  G2 with a J2 sounds intriguing to me also.  Have you tried that yet???



  • When you say sack…do you mean take Tokyo?
    If that’s the case…bullshit.  :lol:
    I’m curious what you mean.



  • @Alsch91:

    When you say sack…do you mean take Tokyo?
    If that’s the case…bullshit.   :lol:
    I’m curious what you mean.

    Waiting till J3 is a pain, but it allows me to get more into the battle.


  • TripleA

    I don’t usually G2 with my J2… because I tend to take romania with germany. so I need a round to setup. G1 I always bluff sea lion, so G2 i setup to follow through if I feel like it, or I get the 3 transport thing primed for germany to shuffle inf/art up the battle while I blitz mech/tank for the ruskies.

    I tend to explode with japan, I do my best to take out india so when russia goes down NOTHING CAN HOLD EGYPT. 😄

    I also do a fair amount of africa play with italy till uk starts doing real drops then I go handle it with italy.

    I tend to do well with all three axis countries. Allies is harder to play in my opinion. because I don’t take allies 5 or under, I am always playing against a 6 bid for the allies… I hate it when india gets a tank, but most people like to do sub in medit with the carrier (I do 1 per territory and must be with existing units)  seen artillery to smooth out the ethiopia round 1 dice with 2 dolla uk (so he can buy 10 inf against sea lion, because I am always bluffing it and I am known to do it every now and then).
    ~

    Full pacific income USA players are annoying. I hate 2 carrier 1 dd 1 tactical save a dolla. It screws my shiz up. J2 DOW is what I do.

    Generally speaking against full pacific players, I throw everything and the kitchen sink at india, take it and have like 3-10 air units left only. usually italy is strong making at least 2 NOs then oil states  so I go sail over there since USA is just going to eat my lunchbox.

    Then I just spam inf/fighters on japan for the rest of the game. Usually russia goes down about when I am convoy disrupted to 0 income, and egypt / volgo is already ours so it is gg.

    Japan can be just sad sometimes. I usually just maintain my position, but if usa is going full pac, I have to take out UK PAC , there is no choice. I also have to do it before round 7 which is when usa naval comes to queensland and he has big fleets in hawaii so there is no real me doing anything about it.

    if I don’t have a chance in hell on india I just sail my ships to the atlantic and bunker china down as long as i can for income.


  • TripleA

    Waiting till J3 is a pain, but it allows me to get more into the battle.

    you end up getting blocked though which is the problem. unless you move naval over the islands you are going to take and have the boats loaded on J2.

    usa tends to get everything to queensland still even if you can sink it (tend to just block with a dd or two).

    no real advantage money wise waiting for j3. you lose the 10 NO. to pick up 12-13 in islands and FIC. usually -7 or -11 for allies. so usa getting his NO for the other powers to be weaker is the tradeoff.


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