Can you retreat, from NOWHERE?



  • @Gargantua:

    get the Japanese Navy to sink my American Transport (with Russian infantry on it)

    And if the Soviet infantry goes down with the American transport that “attacked” the Japs, does that mean that Japan and russia are at war even if they weren’t before the incident?  Very Tonkin gulf.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Well that’s part of the issue.

    IF the Reds load onto an american transport from Soviet Far East.  Is that an act of war against Japan?


  • 2017

    The Soviets would need to declare war on Japan before boarding a US transport in the Pacific.

    But they could have loaded a US transport on the Europe map (if the USSR is at war Germany and/or Italy).

    But then I have to ask, can the US move a transport containing Soviet troops from the Europe map to the Pacific map if the Soviets aren’t at war with Japan?

    Theatre specific neutrality is weird.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    GOOD Question.



  • @Axisplaya:

    @Rorschach:

    Now you’re just looking for loopholes.

    Well…Garg is good at that…

    I remember once he found a reason to build a NAVAL BASE on the mailand (not adjacent to any seazone…)   :-o     😄

    1. Can I see that?
    2. How. The. Fuck?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=21536.0;wap2

    And here’s a shout out to Axis Playa for remembering!



  • @techroll42:

    @Axisplaya:

    @Rorschach:

    Now you’re just looking for loopholes.

    Well…Garg is good at that…

    I remember once he found a reason to build a NAVAL BASE on the mailand (not adjacent to any seazone…)�  � :-o�  �  � 😄

    1. Can I see that?
    2. How. The. f**k?

    LOL … he found a “REASON” to, but, as per Kreig “No.  See page 24 of the Rulebook.”



  • OK so if japan attacks India by sea and there is a naval battle, and there just happens to be a British transport present with a Soviet mech onboard, would Japan and Russia be at war after that naval battle?



  • @Vance:

    OK so if japan attacks India by sea and there is a naval battle, and there just happens to be a British transport present with a Soviet mech onboard, would Japan and Russia be at war after that naval battle?

    In order for Russia to load onto an Allied transport in that seazone, they’re required to be at war with Japan before loading onto it (otherwise they cannot use Allied transports, be in Allied territories).

    They’re already at war.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    My REASON was validated through an Airbase build though.  It was just slightly less ideal.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    But what he’s saying, is if it loads on the European side of the map… and the transport moves, is THAT an act of war?



  • @Gargantua:

    But what he’s saying, is if it loads on the European side of the map… and the transport moves, is THAT an act of war?

    The UK itself cannot move the transport with a Russian unit on it onto the Pacific side of the board UNTIL Russia has declared war on Japan. The UK cannot declare war for Russia, and Russia CANNOT have their units on Allied transports on the Pac side unless they first declare war.

    The transport is stopped at the seazone boarder to the Pac board and would not be able to move across until Russia declares war on Japan. Russia would need to declare war prior to the UK turn that the UK wanted to move the transport onto the Pac side.



  • Right so Germany attacks Russia G2 so USSR is at war on the Europe map.  Russia can then move a mech from Turkmenistan to UK controlled East Persia, then the following turn it loads onto a British transport which UK then NCMs to z39.  If Japan attacks India J4 and UK scrambles a fighter to cause a naval battle in which the transport is sunk, japan is then at war with Russia on the Pacific map?  And it was Japan that started the war, not the Russians.  Its not their fault the bloody British put their unit in harms way.



  • @Vance:

    Right so Germany attacks Russia G2 so USSR is at war on the Europe map.  Russia can then move a mech from Turkmenistan to UK controlled East Persia, then the following turn it loads onto a British transport which UK then NCMs to z39.  If Japan attacks India J4 and UK scrambles a fighter to cause a naval battle in which the transport is sunk, japan is then at war with Russia on the Pacific map?  And it was Japan that started the war, not the Russians.  Its not their fault the bloody British put their unit in harms way.

    No.  Russia is not permitted to use an Allied Transport on the Pac side of the board unless at war with Japan.

    In your example, the UK is BARRED from NCM to Z39 with that transport. It is an illegal move to cross into Z39. It is NOT permitted to cross into a seazone that is on the Pac side of the board unless Russia is at war on that side of the board. And again, the UK cannot declare war for Russia - only Russia can declare war, and ONLY on Russia’s turn.

    It’s their bloody fault.



  • So the British captain and crew must do what their Soviet passengers demand of them.  This is MUTINY.  That’s OK the transport (HMS Potemkin) can always take the Russians to Italian Somaliland instead.


  • TripleA

    you can move out and then move in.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Using the new rules we’ve discovered, all we have to do now, is find an example that would FORCE an allied transport loaded with Russian troops onto the pacific board.  🙂

    Are we having fun yet?



  • What about the anzac forces in Africa can they switch boards with a transport?



  • @Gargantua:

    If you can’t hit the sub, you can’t attack the sub.

    Actually, that’s a bunch of crap.

    There have been some extreme examples, that I’ve seen, where this has occured.

    Namely, a Russian decided he’d board himself onto an allied transport (American) in the pacific.  To spite the Russians the Americans then deliberately left their transport out as fodder for the Japanese air-force.

    Then, to spite the Americans, the Japanese refused to sink the transport.

    So the Americans sent it on a suicide no dice attack, which is technically legal, against a Japanese battleship and sub combo.

    Ok i know this does not the topic but, thats really funny, to save a transport by loading a Russian onto a one, so japan wont sink cause they dont want to go to war! :lol:



  • @empireman:

    @Gargantua:

    If you can’t hit the sub, you can’t attack the sub.

    Actually, that’s a bunch of crap.

    There have been some extreme examples, that I’ve seen, where this has occured.

    Namely, a Russian decided he’d board himself onto an allied transport (American) in the pacific.  To spite the Russians the Americans then deliberately left their transport out as fodder for the Japanese air-force.

    Then, to spite the Americans, the Japanese refused to sink the transport.

    So the Americans sent it on a suicide no dice attack, which is technically legal, against a Japanese battleship and sub combo.

    Ok i know this does not the topic but, thats really funny, to save a transport by loading a Russian onto a one, so japan wont sink cause they dont want to go to war! :lol:

    The problem with this entire line of argument is that there is no reason for Japan to not declare war on Russia.  There is no punishment for a state of war.  There is only a punishment for attacking territories adjacent to Mongolia, but you aren’t required to attack them when you declare war.  The only other reason that Japan wouldn’t want to declare war is to limit Allied units from moving into Russian territories or sharing transports, but if Russia wanted to do that, they’re free to declare war themselves.

    Point is Russia can simply declare war themselves on R1 and open up their territories - again, there’s no punishment to a state of war, only if Russia attacks Manchuria, but they don’t have to do that when they declare war.

    So, why would Russia ever not declare war on R1 if it means they are free to move through Pac boards and share space with Pac allies?  That’s right, there’s no reason (besides historic romanticism).  Russia screws over the allies more by not declaring war, as it changes absolutely nothing for the axis and only hinders Russia to be neutral on the Pac side of things.



  • Actually, IIRC, there’s a helluva good reason: Mongolia. IIRC Mongolia doesn’t convert if USSR declares war.



  • That’s what i thought too, but now that I read the Mongolian rule a little closer it looks like that’s not that case.



  • @techroll42:

    Actually, IIRC, there’s a helluva good reason: Mongolia. IIRC Mongolia doesn’t convert if USSR declares war.

    Nope.  Only if Russia attacks a Japanese controlled territory bordering Mongolia before Japan does the same.  That means Manchuria almost specifically, but also addresses if Russia were to attempt to liberate Japanese held Chinese territories adjacent to Mongolia.  Note that Japan is free to attack chinese territories occupied by Russian soldiers and that will result in no penalty, as they are chinese (not russia) territories.

    There’s absolutely nothing that penalizes either for a state of war between them.  It’s better for Japan if the US can’t land bombers in Russia and if the reds don’t reinforce china or india, but there’s NOTHING that prevents Russia from declaring war R1 and freeing movement for themselves (and their allies) on the pac board.

    Soviet/Japanese Non Aggression Pact: Due to their mutual border conflct with Japan in 1939, the Soviet Union and Mongolia have a special relationship. If the Japanese attack any Soviet territory that is adjacent to any Mongolian territory, all Mongolian territories (Olgiy, Dzavhan, Tsagaan-Olom, Central Mongolia, Ulaanbaatar, and Buyant-Uhaa) that are still neutral are placed under the control of the Soviet Union at the end of the Japanese Combat Move phase, in the same manner as though the Soviet Union had moved land units into a friendly neutral territory. These territories have Soviet control markers placed on them, and their standing army units are placed on the board and are controlled by the Soviet Union player from then on. This occurs regardless of the state of relations between the Soviet Union and Japan at the time of the attack, with one exception: If the Soviet Union attacks any Japanese-controlled territory bordering these Mongolian territories while Mongolia is still neutral, Mongolia will remain neutral and not ally itself with the Soviet Union. In addition, the Mongolian territories will never become pro-Axis unless one or more of them is attacked by the Soviet Union.

    Attacking is different from declaring war.  Japan and Russia are free to declare war on each other without ever attacking each other at any time, over the entire length of the game.


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