• As Germany, the new convoy disruption rules really kinda suck. Your subs which always did a reliable 3 damage now can now risk doing less damage. Even if one sub can do up to 6, Germany usually has a wolf pack in UKs convoy zones, so really its just a downside.

    What I want to know is, what is the best way to raid the UK convoys. Should Germany still implement wolf packs, or should they augment their surface fleet to be parked right next to England?

    It seems like a loaded carrier, battleship, and cruiser would do nicely, but is pretty susceptible to air attacks. But tell me what you guys think is the best way to hurt UK (Rhymes lolz).

  • Sponsor

    I’m going to answer as though you’re using alpha+3.9, because that’s where my heads at. The safe and wise play IMO dosen’t include a G1 attack on 109 anymore, so the UK will have a destroyer available to take out any surviving u-boats. Expensive surface war ships in a convoy zone for no other reason but to convoy, also seems counter productive to me. At this point (and I could be wrong) the best way to disrupt UK convoys (if disrupting is still a good strategy) is to buy 2 subs per round, and scatter build them among their different factory sea zones.


  • What I do is I put a few subs off of 109 and go from there, using NB Normandy to propel new subs along with them for an attack or to attack without 109’s support. It eventually pays for itself, plus with the SBR UK can build UK once every 2 turns, and then barely anything. Now, when the US comes…

    …Japan is in Calcutta, Germany is touring Moscow and the game is nearly over. Hopefully.

  • Sponsor

    @techroll42:

    What I do is I put a few subs off of 109 and go from there, using NB Normandy to propel new subs along with them for an attack or to attack without 109’s support. It eventually pays for itself, plus with the SBR UK can build UK once every 2 turns, and then barely anything. Now, when the US comes…

    …Japan is in Calcutta, Germany is touring Moscow and the game is nearly over. Hopefully.

    What?


  • So, what I do is keep a few subs in SZ 109 and SBR UK so that the UK factory is insignificant. I send subs out to try and hit the US, but usually with some “heavy” ship support.

    Meanwhile, Germany is taking Russia and Japan Calcutta.

  • Sponsor

    @techroll42:

    So, what I do is keep a few subs in SZ 109 and SBR UK so that the UK factory is insignificant. I send subs out to try and hit the US, but usually with some “heavy” ship support.

    Meanwhile, Germany is taking Russia and Japan Calcutta.

    All the UK needs is a couple of destroyers (with air units) to prevent you from disrupting their convoys in 109 or anywhere else.


  • There are two main reasons i favor going for convoy disruption as Germany:
    1. You will have to fight UK regardless and it is strategically better to pin them in their own SZs by fighting them in the N-Atlantic than fighting them in Norway or France.
    2.  Italy needs all the help they can get.  By attacking British convoys you drain their income they are collecting and forcing UK to spend resources to defend those convoys.  Resources that could otherwise be used to smash Italy.


  • @Young:

    @techroll42:

    So, what I do is keep a few subs in SZ 109 and SBR UK so that the UK factory is insignificant. I send subs out to try and hit the US, but usually with some “heavy” ship support.

    Meanwhile, Germany is taking Russia and Japan Calcutta.

    All the UK needs is a couple of destroyers (with air units) to prevent you from disrupting their convoys in 109 or anywhere else.

    Both of which they have as early as UK1.

    Personally I prefer sending SS down around Africa and “plinging” UK for a few IPC from Sea zones that they really don’t want to deal with from both an IPC perspective and a unit perspective.


  • Well, the theory is that one of the following will happen, allowing easy convoy raids:
    1. UK fighters will die, either due to bad rolls or bad strat
    2. UK airbase will be damaged and will be a drain to repair
    3. UK destroyers will eventually be destroyed (and they actually could be UK1)

  • Sponsor

    @techroll42:

    Well, the theory is that one of the following will happen, allowing easy convoy raids:
    1. UK fighters will die, either due to bad rolls or bad strat
    2. UK airbase will be damaged and will be a drain to repair
    3. UK destroyers will eventually be destroyed (and they actually could be UK1)

    None of these things happen in our games.

    1. If the UK loses fighters for whatever reason, they should simply buy more.

    2. It’s difficult to bomb both the factory and a base, and most bomb the factory first.

    3. It’s a stretch to say that fighters and destroyers will eventually be destroyed when subs defend @1.


  • 1. Hard to build more if your IPC’s on hand are 20 and your factory is 20 damage. Although you could build in Canada, those fighters would take forever to get to UK.

    2. It’s not that hard if G1 you don’t bomb but get rid of all the navy. UK won’t build more navy off UK, and then G2 your tacs hit both bases (or Airbase only if you don’t have enough) while your strats hit the IC. Eventually it’ll just be strats flying raids.

    3. Who says subs will ever be defending? I build 3 subs/turn of Normandy/Bordeaux. With the NB there, I can wreak havoc on the Atlantic.

  • Sponsor

    Are you using the latest Alpha+3.9 setup? Because if you are, you won’t be able to get all of the UK fleet, in fact, the UK could be left with as much as 40% of its startup fleet.


  • How do you figure? I only send 1 plane to France, and don’t SBR…

  • Sponsor

    @techroll42:

    How do you figure? I only send 1 plane to France, and don’t SBR…

    2 air units and a cruiser can no longer reach the Atlantic, and 111 & 110 have both been reinforced. Do you have a blue print on how you plan to wipe all this out?


  • Let me see…I am starting a game shortly on this forum. I will tell you then how I wipe out all the UK navy.

  • Customizer

    KillOFzee,
    No one in my group likes the new “roll for convoy damage” system so we went back to set amounts: 3 IPCs for each German sub, 2 IPCs for all other nation’s subs, 2 IPCs for each carrier borne aircraft (meaning you would have to leave a carrier just for convoy raiding) and 1 IPC for any other warship.

    techroll42,
    I have to agree with Young Grasshopper on this one. With the latest setup, it’s next to impossible to wipe out the British fleet unless you get outstanding dice rolls for Germany and really crappy rolls for UK. Even if you leave the DD/Trn in SZ 106 and the CA in SZ 91 alone, you still have 5 subs, 1 BB, 4 fighters, 4 tacs and 2 strats to hit 2 BB, 3 CA, 2 DD and 4 fighters, depending on where UK scrambles them. Some of your units are limited in which SZs they can hit and since UK doesn’t have to scramble until you finish your combat move, you could end up with a nasty surprise in either SZ 109 or 110, depending on how much you committed to either zone. You may be successful in sinking all the ships and even killing the fighters, but you will end up losing A LOT of planes and subs in the process, perhaps even your battleship.


  • Personally, I feel like going in to a 50-50 battle is a good idea for Germany.

    And in addition, what if UK doesn’t scramble (i.e. lets all their fighters live)? Then it’s easy to walk over the RN.


  • @KillOFzee:

    As Germany, the new convoy disruption rules really kinda suck. Your subs which always did a reliable 3 damage now can now risk doing less damage. Even if one sub can do up to 6, Germany usually has a wolf pack in UKs convoy zones, so really its just a downside.

    What I want to know is, what is the best way to raid the UK convoys. Should Germany still implement wolf packs, or should they augment their surface fleet to be parked right next to England?

    It seems like a loaded carrier, battleship, and cruiser would do nicely, but is pretty susceptible to air attacks. But tell me what you guys think is the best way to hurt UK (Rhymes lolz).

    I don’t believe that subs can do 6, in any of the alpha incarnations.


  • @Larrie:

    @KillOFzee:

    As Germany, the new convoy disruption rules really kinda suck. Your subs which always did a reliable 3 damage now can now risk doing less damage. Even if one sub can do up to 6, Germany usually has a wolf pack in UKs convoy zones, so really its just a downside.

    What I want to know is, what is the best way to raid the UK convoys. Should Germany still implement wolf packs, or should they augment their surface fleet to be parked right next to England?

    It seems like a loaded carrier, battleship, and cruiser would do nicely, but is pretty susceptible to air attacks. But tell me what you guys think is the best way to hurt UK (Rhymes lolz).

    I don’t believe that subs can do 6, in any of the alpha incarnations.

    Well, subs can roll two dice, and anything below a three counts for that much convoy damage, so it is possible for a single sub to do up to 6 damage.


  • @Young:

    Are you using the latest Alpha+3.9 setup? Because if you are, you won’t be able to get all of the UK fleet, in fact, the UK could be left with as much as 40% of its startup fleet.

    I hit both UK sea zones and wipe out all of their navy with relative ease. Here are my moves

    Seazone 111: 2 fighters from Norway and Holland/Belgium, along with 2 tactical from W Germany and 2 subs
    Seazone 110: 2 fighters from W Germany, 1 tac from W Germany, 1 tac and 2 strats from Germany and 2 subs

    If UK scrambles I still have 80% chance of victory in SZ 110 and 80% in SZ 111. I may lose fighters, But UIK will lose theirs, making sea-lion far easier. I don’t bring my Battleship for risk of it being attacked by UK airforce without protection. The only ships that UK have left are the the destroyer and transport in 109, and maybe the destroyer and transport in 106.

  • Sponsor

    How is it 80% in 110?, if the UK scrambles, everything is a wash except for 2 subs with surprise strikes. Even if you have that kind of advantage, you’re looking at about 3 rounds minimum to finish them. If I were going to do what you are suggesting, I would sacrafice my battleship in 110 to be sure that I get out with my air units.


  • What if you attack z111 with air and subs, attack z110 with air plus battleship and sub(s), and you also take Normandy and build an airbase in Holland?  You will take 1 hit on the battleship, but protect it with the scramble and repair it with the Normandy naval base next turn.  Hitting z111 prevents a strike on your battleship because all they would have is the destroyer from z109, the z91 cruiser, and the precious RAF.  The new airbase in Holland will make them think you are going sea lion and if you really are then the Holland airbase will protect your fleet after the invasion.  The airbase does kind of the same job as the carrier in z112 used to do (protect battleship and feign sea lion).  Hitting z110 prevents those ships meeting up with the others in z92 and bringing out the battleship probably saves a plane.


  • @Young:

    How is it 80% in 110?, if the UK scrambles, everything is a wash except for 2 subs with surprise strikes. Even if you have that kind of advantage, you’re looking at about 3 rounds minimum to finish them. If I were going to do what you are suggesting, I would sacrafice my battleship in 110 to be sure that I get out with my air units.

    Do the battle calculations yourself, I will come out with on average three planes while UK will lose everything. In both seazones I have 80% plus victory. I can afford to lose 3 planes knowing that UK has 3 less as well. And as I said, I don’t want to waste a perfectly good Battleship to ensure that England doesn’t Scramble. I would prefer them to sacrifice their planes.

  • Sponsor

    @Vance:

    What if you attack z111 with air and subs, attack z110 with air plus battleship and sub(s), and you also take Normandy and build an airbase in Holland?� You will take 1 hit on the battleship, but protect it with the scramble and repair it with the Normandy naval base next turn.� Hitting z111 prevents a strike on your battleship because all they would have is the destroyer from z109 and the precious RAF.� The new airbase in Holland will make them think you are going sea lion and if you really are then the Holland airbase will protect your fleet after the invasion.� The airbase does kind of the same job as the carrier in z112 used to do (protect battleship and feign sea lion).� Hitting z110 prevents those ships meeting up with the others in z92 and bringing out the battleship probably saves a plane.

    Interesting, the question is…. How will a $15 air base and a campaign investment on the channel coast translate into success 3 to 4 rounds into the game. Good ideas that ethier serve only the first round, or deserve some later round follow up ideas.

  • Sponsor

    @KillOFzee:

    @Young:

    How is it 80% in 110?, if the UK scrambles, everything is a wash except for 2 subs with surprise strikes. Even if you have that kind of advantage, you’re looking at about 3 rounds minimum to finish them. If I were going to do what you are suggesting, I would sacrafice my battleship in 110 to be sure that I get out with my air units.

    Do the battle calculations yourself, I will come out with on average three planes while UK will lose everything. In both seazones I have 80% plus victory. I can afford to lose 3 planes knowing that UK has 3 less as well. And as I said, I don’t want to waste a perfectly good Battleship to ensure that England doesn’t Scramble. I would prefer them to sacrifice their planes.

    Odds calculations are all accurate and good, but all it takes is a angry dice god to decimate my entire air force (the back bone of German success) as early as G1. I may be wrong and your strategy for this new alpha+3.9 setup may become standard, but it makes me nervous at this stage.

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