Operation Sealion Question



  • I’ve been reading some doozies online here and just trying figure out how the Allied players even allow Germany to attempt Sealion, let alone succeed in it.


  • Customizer

    It is impossible to prevent Germany from attempting it.

    As for success, why don’t you just look at the game logs in the ‘play board games’ section to see for yourself as to how well it works?  There are many games where it succeeded.


  • Customizer

    Or are you refering to the final rules set?



  • How many times have you done Sealion and the Axis have won the game?  Unless the Allied players are totally inept, I can’t see how they could win.  I guess this is my true point.

    This is just a fun poll.


  • Customizer

    The question stands.  What rule set?



  • Personally, I don’t think it matters which rule set.  Doing Sealion the way most of the people have described does not seem like the Axis will last if you have competent Allies players involved.



  • Even with the latest rules and setup, there will probably be lots of games where sea lion is done well and the axis go on to win against very capable players.  I doubt the percentage will be close to 100% of the time though, as some people claimed it was before the latest changes.


  • Customizer

    Rule set has everything to do with it.  Success rates are highest with Alpha 2 and early alpha 3.  I’m thinking you don’t understand how Sealon works.  It cannot be prevented.  All UK can do is bring the odds down.

    I have played Sealion over a dozen times, most online here.  Lost 1 game.  I have also played against Sealion and lost those online.  Currently playing Allies in a Sealion game.

    If you think you have a counter, play against players on her, and specify what rules set.



  • New option please:

    Screw Sealion, Barbarossa FTW

    Reasons:

    1. If nothing else, Barbarossa is more fun and tactically interesting. I don’t know if this is the case with the latest rules, and these ones do add more complexity, but Sealion in anything through Alpha+3.5 is very rigid–get. units via transport to UK. Barbarossa can change, and it requires tactics that change as the enemy’s change.
    2. It means that you are not fighting a 2-front war when the US is coming from the West (well, you still are finishing off Moscow, but…)
    3. Home islands=8 IPC’s. USSR (excluding eastern lands) about=25 IPC’s.
    4. Nearly worthless transports: Sealion=10, Barbarossa=0 (If you haven’t won yet, Sealion is coming)



  • @jim010:

    Rule set has everything to do with it.  Success rates are highest with Alpha 2 and early alpha 3.  I’m thinking you don’t understand how Sealon works.  It cannot be prevented.  All UK can do is bring the odds down.

    I’m not saying that UK can prevent it.  I guess my real point is, that if Germany concentrates on Sealion in the first 3 turns, the Axis WILL lose the game.  They cannot put that many forces in UK without having the Russian player do something about it.  Plus bringing US into the War early is HUGE.

    If the ultimate goal is to WIN the game, sealion is not a smart move early in the game.

    I would love to play face to face with someone who uses it.  I really want to see it work.

    And NO, I’m not playing online.  Bugs my eyes out.  😮


  • Customizer

    Then you are out of luck if you are unwilling to play online or to follow the Sealion games here.  Otherwise, you could see for yourself how Germany catches up using the TTs and the $90 it has to push Russia back.

    According to your own poll, when Sealion succeeds, Axis go on to win.

    The final rule set may be different, though.



  • I personally think Sealion is a trap. Its so enticing, and even more so that its just about a guaranteed win. The problem is that to pull it off, Germany has to invest a massive amount of resources, and it spends precious time. Even if you are successfull, and you conquer the UK G3, you have invested in transports and a fleet which will be sunk by the US, and you have yeilded the initiative on the Russian front. Unless you attack the Russians G2 with everything you have, you really have no chance of getting past the Ukrane. The Russians just have too many infantry. Combine that with the fact that the Germans will barely break even once their fleet is sunk by the US, and the Axis is in decline. The Germans are in a bad spot.

    Moreover, an intelligent British player will not waste money defending the Isle beyond the cost effective point. Because Sealion is obvious G1, the British can adapt their play so as to fight the Italians with great success in Africa. I have seen the Brits fight the Italians, while their capital falls, they have the US reclaim it US5, and then the allies are OK, and the Axis is in trouble.



  • Seems more like some people don’t want to believe it’s possible; hence strange and biased poll choices, dogmatic blanket statements and inability to think outside the box.



  • Sealion can still work, the question really comes down to the Allied strategy on a global setting.  What hasn’t been discussed and determined is how to handle Moscow post a successful Sealion.  It is really hard to project past turn 4 in this game, and Moscow has multiple strategies it can employ.

    My guess is that the Italians need to shore up Berlin on I4 via an I3 purchase as a defunct London economy advances Italy significantly.  Italy realistically only needs to take Egypt to give the Axis a win - and it doesn’t have to do this until after London falls and Germany is pushing against Russia.

    This buys Germany a garrison in Berlin until it can relocate its London invasion force to mainland Europe.

    I think its viable, but it comes down to what the Allies do.  And, being Germany is the conductor of this game, it is hard to determine the Allied strategy until AFTER you have put yours in motion.



  • Sea lion does not WORK. Sea lion does not NOT WORK.  The probability is not 0% and it is not 100%.  It is somewhere in between and that is determined by players’ skill and dice.  People have a lot of trouble thinking in probabilities.



  • The only time it didn’t work for me was when my dice went sour on G5 & G6 going into Russia, But the following week it worked and everybody was rolling better, I have yet to try it with the latest 3.9 rules. So much depends on good rolls at key battles and being able to work as an Axis team.


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