G4 Sea-lion Alpha +3.9



  • G1 buys: 1 aircraft carrier, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine

    kill UK fleets in 106, 108, and 111 (and optional kill french ships in 93)
    take france, yugo, finland and normandy

    G2 buys: 1 strat bomber, 1 tank, 4 transports (saving 21 IPCs)

    Finish off UK atlantic navy with air + subs
    SBR London IC
    Position Army stacks in Germany and south Germany (Keep USSR guessing til last possible moment)
    on G3 you could call it off and instead go for Barbarossa using the 5 trannies to take novgorod

    G3 buys: 10 transports (point of no return)
    SBR London IC (optional SBR London airbase)
    position remaining subs for convoy raids (if not already)
    Position 10 tanks, 5 arty, 15 INF for assault on G4

    G4 = sealion
    10 tanks 5 artillery and 15 tanks plus all airpower you have

    make sure to leave one INF in each: Poland, hungary and romania to prevent USSR blitz and i have 10 INF in finland also

    G5 use transports to move troops to poland for Barbarossa

    game is currently in hiatus on USSR4
    not sure when it will resume but hopefully soon



  • I know a rather funny counter to this one � 😉

    Buy 3bombers and 1AC each turn with US for a total of the 3 first turns. (asuming their not at war with Japan)

    Build a tranny (or in worst case two) with Soviet round 3.

    Keep bombers in Midway or Hawaii until NCM move round 3,
    then move them to East USA and build 3bombers there (total of 10 round for round 4)

    Make Soviet take Norway or Denmark (should be easy enough if you place tranny in zone 127)

    Sink all the transports and ships Germany have used to attack UK with, watch Axis players twist in agony.

    Watch USSR steamroll germany.



  • USA can reach from nowhere lol

    Tell me where they are coming from ?

    Only have a range of 7 from E USA and cannot land in any allied territorys untill round 4 (Then cant hit til round 5 - which is too late)


  • Customizer

    Scotland.



  • @jim010:

    Scotland.

    This is an illegal move before USA turn 4.

    So your saying on turn 4 move the bombers to scottland, then attack on USA5?
    Or attack on USA4 (from E US) and land in scottland ? (This would sacrifice every bomber you sent and thus waste 3 rounds of USA purchases)

    Even so a really really easy way for germany to stop anything like this would be to take scottland on G3


  • Customizer

    Your question was where do the bmbs land.  You did not outline taking Scotland in your proposal. A mistake that would cost you the game.

    A few bmbs to take out 15 TTs and your navy is a sacrifice worth making.  How many of your units will be stranded in London? How will you hold Russia back now?

    And are you certain there’s nothing UK can do with the 91, 110, 98 and 109 ships?

    Taking Scotland on G3 means you would have to take it heavy to ensure UK doesn’t take it back to give those bmbs a landing space.  Now you need to protect those TTs from being sunk by the UK airforce, while also protecting your newly built TTs from the same threat.

    If you do a search, you’ll find all this has been discussed in detail already.

    Cheers



  • 10 bombers is hardly a few, and remember, Germany has a cruiser a destroyer a battleship and 2 fighters on a carrier to protect its fleet.
    Ive thought about not buying a sub on G1 and instead saving the 7 IPC and buying a 2nd destroyer on G2 (you still would save enough for 10 TTs on G3)

    Honestly if i see USA doing this then on G3 im switching gears and taking novgorod and barbaraso is in full force, and with USA having massed bombers on its first 2 turns instead of transports and ground troops they are now atleast a turn or 2 setback from doing anything significant in either theater.

    If USA is not massing bombers on its first 2 turns then im going ahead with sealion



  • UK Take Eire on UK3.

    Place a UK DD in SZ110.

    Germany can’t take Eire, you can land your Allied Bombers there.



  • Mabye we should try it in a forum game? If you can pull of sealion in alpha 3.9 ill credit you that you are a good player 🙂



  • Don’t forget the carriers in z102.



  • If you think Germany is going Sealion 3bomber and an AC is a very good buy as USA. The mobility of the units can be used both on Germany and on Japan (should Germany deside not to buy trannies)



  • USA bombers cannot reach SZ110 (USA 4) and land anywhere but london (germany controlled)
    USA bombers must take off from either Greenland or E USA on USA4

    So i do not understand how USA bombers can kill Germany transports
    You could land bombers in eire on USA4 but then either germany kills them (most likely) on its turn 5 or if anything after G5 their transports have moved into the baltic (SZ 114)

    And i dont see any reason why Germany would attack from any other position other than SZ110 on G4

    There’s either something i am completely not seeing, or your USA bombers kill G TTs is completely flawed

    The only other logical way USA could sink the German TTs is a fighter/tac bomber carrier mass in SZ 102 on USA3. Then on USA 4 these air units could attack the german fleet in SZ 110 and be picked up by the carriers if they survive. But again remember you have to kill a destroyer (very possibly 2 destroyers) a cruiser a battlehip an aircraft carrier and 2 fighers to kill any TTs. Thats a tall order for fighters and tacs but it is doable i guess



  • @Uncrustable:

    The only other logical way USA could sink the German TTs is a fighter/tac bomber carrier mass in SZ 102 on USA3. Then on USA 4 these air units could attack the german fleet in SZ 110 and be picked up by the carriers if they survive. But again remember you have to kill a destroyer (very possibly 2 destroyers) a cruiser a battlehip an aircraft carrier and 2 fighers to kill any TTs. Thats a tall order for fighters and tacs but it is doable i guess

    You could have 5 carriers in SZ102 with 9 fighters and 1 tac bomber at the end of USA 3. Then on USA 4 these air units would crush the german fleet in SZ110 and kill all the TTs. If you only got 4 carriers with 7 fighters and one tac then it is almost a 50/50 fight (actualy in favor of the axis) and will be up to the dice to determine the winner

    But honestly germany is not going to go through with sealion if USA commits to this (can use the TTs to crush Novgorod instead), and Japan is most likely going to own the pacific, so this is not a very practical strategy



  • Eastern US has an airbase, so bombers from there can hit 110 and land in Eireland, Scotland, or Norway.  Also, USA is allowed to put ships in z102 including carriers with planes that can reach z110 and land in z104.  Uncrustable, please look closely at what happens if UK activates Eire on round 1 with the mech, and then on round 2 puts 3 fighters, a bomber, an AA and a couple infantry in Scotland.  You may take London with fewer losses but in another sense all of your land units will be lost because you will never get them back off the island.  There is absolutely no way that you can take Eireland and Scotland, and still have enough air units left over to take London.  You need to divert air units to protect any ships that go into z119 from possible scramble, and you also need to divert enough units to take Scotland in case they do not scramble.  Good luck with that.

    One remedy might be for Germany to put itself even further into bankruptcy by building carriers out of the Normandy IC to protect the fleet.  Meanwhile the American player calls off the airstrike and the Soviet player laughs at you because now you are at war and for the first 3 rounds of the game you have not built a single land unit!  The final insult is that if Germany did not take Scotland, those British planes will fly up to Novgorod and a few turns later you may well see 3 RAF fighters sitting proudly on top of the Soviet infantry stack in Berlin.



  • Z110 where can US land?

    Norway,Denmark (if soviet build a tranny turn 3), Scotland, Eire or London

    If germany is to attack the soviet tranny with 4 planes round 3 Sealion is over and Russia is free to attack a round earlier.

    And if you dont take london bombers will come either way just to sink the trannies! Then they will fly back to fight Japan  😛



  • @Uncrustable:

    USA bombers cannot reach SZ110 (USA 4) and land anywhere but london (germany controlled)
    USA bombers must take off from either Greenland or E USA on USA4

    So i do not understand how USA bombers can kill Germany transports
    You could land bombers in eire on USA4 but then either germany kills them (most likely) on its turn 5 or if anything after G5 their transports have moved into the baltic (SZ 114)

    And i dont see any reason why Germany would attack from any other position other than SZ110 on G4

    There’s either something i am completely not seeing, or your USA bombers kill G TTs is completely flawed

    EUSA to SZ101: 1
    SZ101 to SZ102: 2
    SZ102 to SZ103: 3
    SZ103 to SZ104: 4
    SZ104 to SZ110: 5
    SZ110 to SZ109: 6
    SZ109 to Eire/Scotland/London: 7

    EUSA has an AB, Bombers can move 6 + 1 from EUSA = 7

    There you go sir.



  • I’m a happy Allied player if Germany spent 70 IPC on Trn and then decides not to Sealion UK.  If you waited 4 rounds before you attack Russia, I think Germany is WAY behind the curve - regardless of the US purchase.

    Besides, Germany can still buy 3 DD to put in Normandy and an AB in Holland to add scramblers before G4, but everything Germany spends that becomes reactive before its plan is fully hatched is a win for the Allies.



  • @Uncrustable:

    But honestly germany is not going to go through with sealion if USA commits to this (can use the TTs to crush Novgorod instead), and Japan is most likely going to own the pacific, so this is not a very practical strategy

    I thought you said you could take London?  If you call it off you don’t take London.  Bombers built in Eastern US can be in Hawaii on USA2 if Germany does not build the transports. Bombers can kill Japanese ships.



  • Nothing is more fun to do this to ppl in real life. They go from the top of the world (thinking they have won), to the bottom of deep depresion (when they figure out that they have actually plaid right into a trap)  :evil:



  • @Uncrustable:

    @Uncrustable:

    The only other logical way USA could sink the German TTs is a fighter/tac bomber carrier mass in SZ 102 on USA3. Then on USA 4 these air units could attack the german fleet in SZ 110 and be picked up by the carriers if they survive. But again remember you have to kill a destroyer (very possibly 2 destroyers) a cruiser a battlehip an aircraft carrier and 2 fighers to kill any TTs. Thats a tall order for fighters and tacs but it is doable i guess

    You could have 5 carriers in SZ102 with 9 fighters and 1 tac bomber at the end of USA 3. Then on USA 4 these air units would crush the german fleet in SZ110 and kill all the TTs. If you only got 4 carriers with 7 fighters and one tac then it is almost a 50/50 fight (actualy in favor of the axis) and will be up to the dice to determine the winner

    But honestly germany is not going to go through with sealion if USA commits to this (can use the TTs to crush Novgorod instead), and Japan is most likely going to own the pacific, so this is not a very practical strategy

    You forget UK can purchase up to 3 Subs, 1 DD (26 IPC) on UK3.  Put 3 Subs in SZ109, 1 DD in SZ110.  NCM its Bomber to Iceland.

    Russia can add a Sub or two as early purchases and move up to 3 SS from SZ125 to SZ110.  12 IPC isn’t a HUGE world of difference for Moscow over 3 turns of purchases, its the equivalent of 4 less Inf - which TBH if you wait until G4 to move on Moscow at the cost of 4 Less Inf for Moscow, that won’t break their back.

    R4 sends 3 Subs from SZ125 - SZ110
    UK4 sends 3 Subs, 1 Bomber (SZ109, Iceland to land in Eire).
    US4 Can send many different arrays of units, I prefer 2 Ftr/TacB with 4-5 Bombers because if you turn on Moscow I can use some of those Bombers in the Pacific and if any of the Ftr/TacB survive, I can land them on Eire to help defend all those Bombers I sent.

    How long can Berlin hold out from a Russian push with its units trapped on London, even after taking London?  Long enough for Japan to win the Pacific after the US went 90% Atlantic?



  • I agree with you! Defending those bombers will make the move even better.



  • @ErwinRommel:

    Z110 where can US land?

    Norway,Denmark (if soviet build a tranny turn 3), Scotland, Eire or London

    If germany is to attack the soviet tranny with 4 planes round 3 Sealion is over and Russia is free to attack a round earlier.

    And if you dont take london bombers will come either way just to sink the trannies! Then they will fly back to fight Japan  😛

    Honestly i miscounted the spaces from E USA to SZ110 lol
    This is a good counter then.

    So basically unless the allied player does not play well there will be no sealion ?



  • I wouldn’t worry too much about defending the bombers.  Those planes are committing suicide.  I would even lose the fighters and tacs before the bombers so then I don’t have to move my carriers to z104 - going out Panama is much better.  A naval base in Panama and new planes in western US puts a strong carrier force in Hawaii the following turn.

    I actually tried the Soviet subs idea once and learned that they have a rough time against the destroyer and fighters before the American airstrike.  Right after the airstrike, though would be a great time for the British subs to finish off anything left alfoat.  Iceland bomber and planes from Scotland/Eireland too.  Or, the subs can always sit there in z109 and convoy raid.



  • @Uncrustable:

    So basically unless the allied player does not play well there will be no sealion ?

    Correct.



  • True with the “no go” on Sea Lion, its simply impossible now. But faking a Sea Lion round one is still smart, as no matter how you turn it UK still has to commit to defence! And US and Russia will have to be very skilled players in order to help out. (most players dont know the bomber move)


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