Cruisers, whats the point?

@Alsch91:

If I have 12 IPCs and need to maximize how much I can defend my fleet, I’m going to buy a cruiser.  1 destroyer isn’t as good, and 2 subs are worse on defense.  BOOM.  A cruiser has become my optimal buy.

This is only in the situation where you have to defend against planes.

simulation a straight battle where only subs defend against only Cruisers, I get this result;
4 cruisers have about a 50/50 shot at winning against 6 subs. that means that 2 subs is better on defence in the situations where you don’t have alot of fodder in your fleet.

simming cruisers v DD, I get that for the cruisers to be worth it, the shorebomb has to be worth alittle more than 2 ipc.

I will personally buy a few cruisers with US, but rarely with any other countries. I will never buy a BB. I find that unit truly the worst of all the units in the game per ipc.

I buy Cruisers for bombardment.

When you need an extra little amount of defense for your fleet (because the enemy just bought another fighter or bomber, as an example), but you know buying a destroyer is useless because the enemy’s fleet is destroyed, and buying a BB is overkill and doesn’t give you same amount of bombardment per IPC, THEN you buy a cruiser.

I often buy cruisers when I am playing as UK, and also as USA in the atlantic.  When playing Low Luck, it is very very nice to have at least 6 points of bombardment available in your fleet [that is 2 cruisers/bb], that way you always get a ‘free kill’ during your amphibious assaults.

It is the same reason I buy Frigates in Napoleonic Empires.  They are the best pound-for-pound bombardment source, and they aren’t that bad at fleet defense.

At most, I could see their price come down by 1 ipc.
If their price came down by more than that, or other silly options like AA shots or extra movement, then they would be OP in my opinion.

If you really feel like it, you could always just rename your Cruisers into “Bombardment Boats”, that way you are very clear about the purpose and situation of when they will be purchased.

Kreuzfeld that doesn’t make any sense.  That’s not really how you run tests.

Replace 1 of those Cruisers with 1 Destroyer.
Now the subs lose, and I’ve actually made the attacking force smaller.

The reason your test has around a 50/50 result is because the subs are getting sneak shots on the cruisers.
In a real game that won’t really happen.

Interestingly enough… the AXIS combined set sail some 15 cruisers… in comparison to something like 1,300 submarines.

The allies as a whole only fielded 82 cruisers in WWII compared to some 800 destroyers…

So point of fact is, on a historical level, cruisers are integrated into the game perfectly.  They have thier purpose, and thier place, and it’s not along the lines of mass production.

What do you mean cruisers lose dds!?
Lets see:
1 Destroyer VS. 1 Cruiser

The Cruiser has a better chance of winning! It attacks @ 3, Destroyer Attacks @ 2!

@Alsch91:

Kreuzfeld that doesn’t make any sense.  That’s not really how you run tests.

The reason your test has around a 50/50 result is because the subs are getting sneak shots on the cruisers.
In a real game that won’t really happen.

forgot about the first shot

still, if you run it as an example;  20 CR + 3 DD v 32 sub + 3 DD you get about 50/50

if you make the attacking force a pure DD force of say  40 DD, then to defend you need about 57 subs to have a 50/50 (or 342 IPC worth of subs)

if defending with CRs you need about 32.5 CRs, (or 390 IPC worth)

this clearly shows that subs are more effective on defence that cruisers, assuming you have enough air defence.  better on defence ofc is DDs.

@Uncrustable:

@empireman:

What do you mean cruisers lose dds!?
Lets see:
1 Destroyer VS. 1 Cruiser

The Cruiser has a better chance of winning! It attacks @ 3, Destroyer Attacks @ 2!

empireman is lost :P

I hope you find your way ;)

What?! you think a dd could beat a CR? CR attacks @ 3 a DD attacks @ 2
3 is higher than 2, you can count! also Cruiser have a bombordment!

They are trying to say that 3 destroyers can beat 2 cruisers on average.
Both are equivelant to 24 ipcs :) and 3 destroyers win.

Also if using Low Luck Rules 5 cruisers 60ipcs v 3 battleships 60ipcs as wellthe winner would be the battleships on average

What?! you think a dd could beat a CR? CR attacks @ 3 a DD attacks @ 2
3 is higher than 2, you can count! also Cruiser have a bombordment!

Dude, compare the prices and the economy of force. The whole game is what something is worth for the ….cost.

Battleship attacks at 4
Bomber attacks at 4
They have different costs and uses.

Get with the game kid.

bombardment!

@Gargantua:

Interestingly enough… the AXIS combined set sail some 15 cruisers… in comparison to something like 1,300 submarines.

The allies as a whole only fielded 82 cruisers in WWII compared to some 800 destroyers…

So point of fact is, on a historical level, cruisers are integrated into the game perfectly.  They have thier purpose, and thier place, and it’s not along the lines of mass production.

“Like”

Suppose there is an island you want to take and it has 1 infantry on it.  You also want to block the sea zone because the enemy has has a big force nearby with carriers, various surface ships, and subs.  You have a destroyer and a cruiser, plus a pair of transports and after your last battle you are left with 1 inf, 1 art, 1 tank.  You know that whatever is placed in the sea zone will certainly be sunk but you need to put a surface ship in there to block their movement so they can’t make an amphibious landing and take back what you just took.  Which would you send:

a: 1 destroyer, 2 transports with 1 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank
    total cost is $35.  You accomplish the mission and save the cruiser

b: 1 cruiser and 1 transport with 1 infantry and 1 tank
    total cost is $26.  You accomplish the mission and save a destroyer, a transport, and an artillery

Well I was playing a game of 1942 and I did build a few cruisers, with this in mind.

And my friend will try to cruiser-spam me tomorrow in G1940.

I’m seriously considering house ruling AA…

oh i get it now, but each unit has good stuff.