• '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Situation:

    Germany has 9 tanks, 9 aircraft in or near England (9 tanks on England, they lost 3 aircraft attacking England.) 
    Japan has a large fleet somewhere - not hard to picture since they start with a large fleet
    England is in German hands
    Egypt is in Italian hands
    France is in German hands (all three territories)
    Germany’s primed to land 2 infantry in Egypt on round 4.
    There is little to no significant threat to SZ 110 (with an AB in W. France and 3 destroyers added to the SZ 110 fleet on the round England fell, there’s no possible way for the allies to have a significant threat.)

    So what do you do now?  Just a rough sketch on how you plan to win the war.  Assume India is not under direct threat and has not been lost to Japan.


  • It falls straight onto Russia’s lap to not screw up and lose Stalingrad and Leningrad to give the Axis the win.  As Russia has already prepared multiple turns for a potential feign of Sealion, it should have a good base to play defensive on preferably Moscow and Stalingrad.  I wouldn’t play into Germany’s ability to ferry units to Leningrad and allow that to be taken and Stalingrad seems to be the furthest from any axis threat.

    If Germany decides to move its units off the UK and go after Russia, the US may have a glimmer of light to Liberate London (Does the major on London downgrade to a minor?).  However, I think this is an effort in futility as even if the US liberates the UK on US3, UK4 just collects income, UK5 it places units and isn’t even relevant for moving units until UK6.  In the time the US got its first wave onto London on US3, US5 is the next time you see any more units come in from the US as its a two-turn move to get the US3 purchases onto Europe.

    Personally I’d spend 100% of the US income in Pacific from the get-go and go straight after Japan.  Allies “only” need to take Japan to win the game, yet I’ve never seen a Kill Japan First strategy by the US.  The only issue is where Japan is focused and headed.  From everything I’ve read, its looking at Calcutta licking its chops while owning the DEI and grinding China away.

    Assuming Japan goes after Calcutta on J3/J4 the majority of its power should be focused in and around the DEI’s, SZ37, SZ39 etc.  Thats a two turn move to run back to cover Japan.

    US3 move (assuming Manila was taken J2) I’d go straight after Iwo Jima and take it.  US4 I’d place an airbase there and land all my fighters/tacb/stratB that aren’t on my carriers.  US5 I’d send the entire kitchen sink after Japan along with as many loaded trn as possible from Hawaii.

    It seems the only plausible way to turn the Japanese around that doesn’t ask Russia to hold out from G4 through probably G8 (thats a guess as when Germany could get both Leningrad and Stalingrad).

  • Sponsor

    Jen, you should also include that the Gibraltar naval base has been bombed to the max.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Young:

    Jen, you should also include that the Gibraltar naval base has been bombed to the max.

    I think hitting Gibraltar really depends on a few things.

    1)  Did you have to attack and take Gibraltar to kill some British planes or lock the British fleet in the Med?  If you did, then bombing it is counter-productive as you must first wait for America to get it.  And then, it’s America’s until England is liberated, so they can just repair it at will.
    2)  If not, then yes, the Gibraltar Naval Base should have 4-6 damage markers on it so that it’s closed.


  • What did the USA build turns 1-3 and where?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    You tell us, Jeff.

    Same for Russia, tell us where/what they do as well.


  • This goes on the assumption Japan did NOT stage its fleet in Carolines or Japan and instead moved the majority to SZ36 in preparation for India Crush on J3/J4.

    US1

    Purchase:
    Buy 1 NB (15) - Place Midway
    Buy 1 AC (16) - Place SZ10
    Buy 2 Trn (14) - Place SZ10
    Buy 1 Trn (7) - Place SZ101 or Save the 7 for US2 assuming Japan is bringing the US into war.
    52 IPC Spent

    NCM:
    Move Fleet from SZ10 to Midway (Bring 1 Inf, 1 Art from W.USA)
    Move Fleet from SZ26 to Midway (Bring 2 Inf from Honolulu)
    Move 1 Inf, 1 Tnk from Central to Western US
    Fly 2 Ftrs from Honolulu to Midway
    Fly 1 Ftr from Western USA to Midway
    Fly 1 StratB from Central US to Midway
    Fly 1 Ftr from Philippines to Guam

    Collect 52 IPC

    Explanation:
    NB Explanation:  The NB plays many factors for the US.  First, it allows you to stage your fleet away from Honolulu and still play blocker against Japan trying to take it in a single turn (Caroline Islands have no Trn).  Effectively as long as you have a fleet staged there, Japan will have to either take it out to get to Honolulu or make a two-turn move (via Caroline Islands) to get there uncontested.  The best part is clearly that you can still send your ships from SZ10 there on a single move basically relocating the potential Hawaii battle away from Hawaii.

    Further, if J2 puts the US into war, the US can reach Japan from multiple routes, eliminating the single destroyer block move in SZ16 or the surrounding move by Japanese Destroyers in SZs 25, 31 and/or 30.  Best of all, the US can now send sorties into SZ6 against any ships Japan decides to put there. The US can send up to 4 Ftr and 1 SB on US3. This forces Japan to either keep 3 fighters on Japan, send ships home to protect SZ6 unit placements, or purchase ships to protect whatever transports it decides to purchase J2.

    The Ftr on Guam is more of a distraction than anything else.  It allows you to send a 5th Ftr against SZ units in SZ6 if Japan puts you at war on US2, it can hit any unprotected Trn along the Chinese coast, it can serve as a distraction for Japan where it has to deal with a potential 3 Ftrs on it with a StratB as early as US3.  Further, if Japan does go after Manila on J2, it still allows the Ftr to survive unless Japan re-directs a Trn that was headed for India Crush to deal with the Ftr.  It can also land in Hong Kong on US2 if Japan decided to not take it and provide another distraction of Trn/Flying units that were headed to deal with the Burma Road or India Crush.

    The 4 units on Trn that will land in Midway provide for a few options:  Iwo Jima on US2 (if at war), a Threat (although not very credible yet) on Japan, or a potential to land on Korea, Amur, Caroline Islands or Siberia.

    Basically if Japan sends its fleet South to SZ36 on J1, and the US stages in Midway, it forces Japan to turn around and its still a 2 turn move to get to Japan (earliest return to SZ6 for Japan then is J3 unless Japan bought a NB on J1 and placed it at Hainan). If it doesn’t, Japan is facing a fleet sitting off its coast convoy raiding SZ6 every turn. Even better, if Japan does turn around and the US decides NOT to fight the Japanese fleet, it is a single move from W.USA or Hawaii and can leave a blocker at Midway basically allowing the US to further strengthen its Pacific fleet.

    This, all, from a US1 purchase.

    US2 becomes very hard to project, because you don’t know how Japan is going to react to sorties being able to fly into SZ6.  If its fleet withdraws from SZ36 to SZ19, the US has done its job in the Pacific and can play cat and mouse with Japan in the Pacific the rest of the game.  This allows the US to send the next few turns of purchases straight to the Atlantic or continue its push on Japan depending on how Japan reacts as the J1 purchase is generally what 3 Trn and an Art.  J2 it has 40 something IPC to spend so it can buy 10 Inf for Tokyo, or a few more ships to augment its returning fleet, or if its fighters are out of position (say oh I dunno, Kwangsi for example) 3 fighters to scramble over Japan.  Any of those options buys UK-India time to take the DEI, mass up on Calcutta, or retake the Burma Road while asserting Pacific dominance over Japan (the easier of the Axis targets for the Allies to beat).

    Personally I would ignore Europe and keep going after Japan.  A Minor in Alaska with a NB on US2 puts 3 more ships a turn headed straight for SZ6.  Can we say US4 sending 3 more BB to go along with its fleet at Midway or Hawaii?  Thats a pretty big dose of wake-up call for shutting Japan down in a hurry from its India Crush which is all anyone is preaching these days.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Okay, but keep in mind the scenario I painted did not declare an India Crush objective for Japan.

    What would you need to alter if the Japanese were in, for instance, SZ 6, SZ 33 or SZ 20 and SZ 6?
    Basically, if Japan went for a more conservative play of hitting China and prepping for Russia (or even attacking Russia) the much of what you are proposing about Midway, Guam etc might not be as beneficial.

    What I’m looking to do is see what the allies are going to do about England falling.  I’m not so worried about what they are doing in the Pacific, as long as they do something in the Pacific to stop Japan from winning (they dont have to do much, but they do have to do something, right?)


  • @Cmdr:

    What I’m looking to do is see what the allies are going to do about England falling.  I’m not so worried about what they are doing in the Pacific, as long as they do something in the Pacific to stop Japan from winning (they dont have to do much, but they do have to do something, right?)

    Do nothing about London and its darned bridge falling down.  To quote Rocky IV “If he dies, he dies.”

    I don’t see the US being very effective in Europe unless it spends 100% of its IPC’s there on US1/US2/US3.  Allow the Japs to hit Hawaii and counter with a US4 purchase of 8-10 subs.  The London Liberation was set in motion turns ago.

    Round 3:
    London falls
    US declares war, stages fleet in SZ106

    Round 4:
    US fleet blocked in SZ108.  US3 purchases stage in SZ106.  US4 purchases 8-10 subs to chase off Japanese fleet.
    Germo-Russian war beings.

    Round 5:
    US fleet from SZ108 and SZ106 can land on London.  US purchases second round of units for Europe.
    Round 2 of Germo-Russian war.

    Round 6:
    German fleet/aircraft may sink US liberation fleet - HUGE setback
    Round 3 of Germo-Russian war.
    UK collects income for the first time in 3 rounds
    US stages US5 purchases in SZ106.  US purchases another flotilla for Europe.

    Round 7:
    Germany has had 3 moves against Moscow (G4, G5, G6) and is on 4th move this round.
    UK purchases and places first units in 4 rounds.
    US lands its US5 flotilla at London/S.France

    Basically the German SeaLion eliminates London from the game for ANY relevancy until Round 8 at the EARLIEST.  In other words, its futile for the US to even waste all those resources trying to liberate a fallen London.  That is why I say the US move is to ignore Europe and go straight after Japan.  All those resources could be brought to bear against Japan COMBINED with UK-India and Anzac making the game two things:

    Moscow plays defensive the entire game protecting Moscow and Stalingrad from Germany/Italy.
    US plays aggressively against Japan the entire game regardless of what Japan does.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Okay, so it’s Russia vs Italy and Germany but Russia just needs to hold 2 of their 3 Victory Cities.

    Meanwhile, you advocate America go for Cripple Japan First, per Alpha 2 standard play, once that has been achieved, swing the fleet around to the Atlantic and go for Italy?

    The other option I see is for America to follow the traditional Kill Italy First and work in conjunction with the Russians (letting the Russians get 3 IPC each for Sardinia, Siciliy and Crete by using American Transports) and hope to kill Germany before Japan gets 6 VCs.


  • I would go lite navy in the pacific (about 20% of my IPCs) and go heavy into Europe.  I would continue stacking troops, planes and navy in SZ 91 and Gibraltar where i can simultaneously threaten UK, Normandy, Norway, Africa and Southern Italy.  From here i would either liberate UK or take out Italy, whichever option appeared most viable.  I would stay back with Russia and build stacks of ground units every turn.  When Germany does invade, i counter attack him at the first good opportunity and try to push hard on Germany.

  • TripleA

    what is russia’s total unit value when london falls? Can it make a decent push for poland?


  • US/Russia versus Germany/Italy

    -or-

    USA/Anzac/UK-India versus Japan

    I’d pick the latter.


  • we don’t play with Victory cities, as we have never done.
    Russia can be making into 50 IPC if they have installed well into slovakia
    the US lands in a chain between canada and ireland (a direct push to retake England has never worked for us)
    perhaps they can build IC in brazil, and support remaining allied forces in africa.
    play evasive in the pacific

    i know it’s very hard, but the key lays in japan being halted for a few rounds (allies attack B2 to have all objectives) and germany losing a lot of forces in england, and keep producing there to keep the territory.

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