Alpha 3 European Allied Defense (Need Help)
Our little gaming group as been playing the latest version of Global 1940 Alpha 3. I play all the Allies.
The Germans buy an Aircraft Carrier and a Bomber on turn G1. The Germans bomb London on G1 with 2 Bombers and 2 Fighters as escorts, and bomb London again on G2 with 3 Bombers plus escorts. On G3 they invade with 16+ plus ground troops plus all the planes they start with (5 Fighters, 5 Tactical Bombers, plus the 3 Bombers less losses) and they almost always succeed.
I usually buy all infantry on UK1 and UK2 and move all the planes from the Mediterranean to London in time for the invasion. This has not been enough.
Since I have not been able to beat them in the West, I have been thinking of putting pressure in the East. My plan is to buy all tanks on R1 and moving them to the front on R2 with all the infantry and artillery if Germany presses a Sea Lion strategy on G1 and G2. This will allow me to attack Poland, Romania and threaten the Balkans (if Germany captured London on G3) on R3. I can move the Russian Cruiser to block any German invasion on Leningrad on G3 so I can move back to the east if I have to. All the Russian NO money is in Germany, the Balkans, Finland, Norway and Sweden, after all.
Has anyone tried this? It is the only idea I have to fight Sea Lion absent a massive American build in the Atlantic and I am loathe to do that because I hate seeing a rampant Japanese Empire.
I know members of this forum have discussed Sea Lion and its defense at great length. But since the change of the bombing rules and the addition of the new German Bomber defending London has become a lot harder. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
P.s I am getting tired of playing London only 2 turns before seeing the Swastika fly over London.
you might want to think about attacking his fleet in sea zone 112. you should have some fleet left. What are his naval battles?
Young Grasshopper last edited by
What are you using your 3 fighters for?, if he is bombing your air base G1 than you have no choice but to scramble against he’s SBR because a successful hit on your air base will prevent you from scrambling into the adjacent sea zones during the general combat phase of the combat sequence. If he is bombing your factory, you might consider scrambling into a sea zone if he’s attacking 109 or even better 110, scramble your fighters and take down some planes because if he hits you than you can remove ships, but if you hit him he has to remove planes. I’ve seen a few times where the 110 battle went horrible for Germany and they had to reconsider their London landing.
If you want to sacrifice London you can build capital ships and transports in Canada and plan a quick liberation, but even that takes time and will require Americas help. I don’t suggest it because I’ve tried it a lot, and the liberation is a lot harder than it seems, if your Russia plan fails and London has fallen, it will be a very short game.
Young Grasshopper last edited by
you might want to think about attacking his fleet in sea zone 112. you should have some fleet left. What are his naval battles?
This is OK, unless he has 3 air units he can scramble from west Germany, which would greatly tilt the battle in his favor.
special forces last edited by
What are you using your 3 fighters for?, if he is bombing your air base G1 than you have no choice but to scramble against he’s SBR because a successful hit on your air base will prevent you from scrambling into the adjacent sea zones during the general combat phase of the combat sequence. If he is attacking 109 or even better 110, scramble your fighters and take down some planes because if he hits you than you can remove ships, but if you hit him he has to remove planes. I’ve seen a few times where the 110 battle went horrible for Germany and the had to reconsider their london landing.
i think he needs his fighters too much to defend London to risk them as interceptors, or even scramblers for that matter. Unless the odds are very good for the scrambling planes.
Trying to attack the German fleet would be my choice as well (though i remember that was easier to pull off in OOB). If he bombs (with escort planes) that means less planes attacking brittish fleet.
edit: i keep forgetting Germany gets to scramble too…
I will scramble if I have even chance of winning the battle or better. But the German player can hit all areas except the DD and TR near London (sea zone 109) and the BB and CA (I think it is a CA at sea zone 110) with good odds. If you scramble and he wins big, you have lost the planes that you will need for invasion defense.
Scrambling to attack the bomber raid on London is the same. He brings 2 bombers and 2 fighters and I can only scramble 3 planes. 4 dice at a 1 to 3 dice at a 1. Not good odds.
The attack on his fleet at sea zone 112 is the same. He has a wounded BB, CA, AC, 2 fighters, and 2 more fighters and a tactical bomber he can scramble. All I can bring is 1 BB, 1 CA (2 CA if the one near Gibraltar lived), 3 Fighters, and 1 Bomber. I used to be able to add another fighter from Gibraltar by buying an AC for it to land on on UK1. There is no airbase in Gibraltar, so this is not possible anymore.
Edit: I forgot to add the DD from sea zone 109 that can join the sea battle. Maybe a close fight now.
All of the above tactics have below 50% chance of success. Since I am going to lose London with the standard defense anyway, I might as well try it. But a strategy that requires one to get lucky to succeed is not a sound strategy.
I think the point is that you have a battlship destroyer cruiser not doing anything. Why not use them for attacking sea zone 112. He can only take his carrier as a hit and his cruiser as a hit 2 free hits before he removes planes. Maybe do one round of battle kill a couple planes and take all your hits on your ships since you have 4 hits on ships before needing to take planes. If you get a good round the first roll go ahead and go again and try to kill of his BB or his planes. You have 7 units vs 8 not good odds, but the fact that your ships can’t do much means why not? Sometimes you will have your cruiser off gibralter that can reach as well. This makes the battle really even and might just go all out and try to kill his transports. also if he hits 5 hits R1 of rolls take your bomber as a hit. when he strat bombs he also risks a near 33% chance of loosing one of his bombers making sea lion that much harder as well. When he takes london does he loose nearly his entire aiforce? Sounds like if he is trying a G3 sea lion he should.
If the German Bombers get through on G1 and G2 he does not lose as much in the invasion as one might think. 2 bombers average 11 points of damage now. So that leaves me 28 less 11, only 17 points to buy troops on UK1. So 5 Inf. But UK does not have to buy off all the bomb damage, 1 IPC to get to 10 damage, and then pay just 4 IPC’s per infantry (3 for the infantry and 1 IPC to repair the factory for the unit. So 6 infantry. 7 infantry if UK gets a little lucky on bomb damage.
If I get the Italians in Africa, the UK will collect 28+1 (africa territory) +2 for Persia and +5 for NO bonus. Assuming no submarine convoy disruption, that is 36 IPC’s. But will lose 11 IPC’s (if UK shoots down 1 bomber on G2) or 16 IPC’s if all three get through. 16-6 to get to 10 damage, and 4 IPC per infantry, so 7 more infantry.
Absent some luck on anti-aircraft, UK will defend with 17 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Bomber, 6 Fighters and 1 Tactical Bomber vs Germany’s 16-26 ground troops, 5 Fighters, Tactical Bombers and 3 Bombers.+ Assuming 11 Transports, that is 22 ground troops plus planes so - Germany loses about 2 planes to anti-aircraft and 16 ground troops in the invasion. They capture London 99% of the time. They still have AC, wounded BB, 1 CA and 4 Fighters, 4 Tactical Bombers and 3 Bombers surviving to protect England from America. This assumes no naval attack on UK1 or UK 2.
So I might as well attack their fleet on UK 1 in the hopes of exchanging ships for planes and I can retreat back to England if things go bad to save the planes. Not a great attack, but I am not going to use the ships if London falls anyway.
I think using the remaining UK fleet in a suicide charge against the German fleet is the best option I’ve heard so far. The more damage you can cause to the German invasion force the better, and IF you manage to wipe his surface fleet, but lose everything in the process then you’ve still won as the German ability to invade London will have gone. So even though its a big loss of material for the UK you will have safeguarded the capitol.
I would try that in conjunction with a Soviet build up on the German border, the more you pressure him the better.
Honestly though hearing from what you are saying UK falls almost every game… Seems to me like somethings got to give
otahere34 last edited by
What exactly are the new rules? this doesn’t sound like the alpha 3 version I have.
Guest last edited by
Don’t scramble, fly planes home, build infantry, pray for good dice, and move on. America is coming.
The very latest Alpha 3 removed the British Fighter in Normandy, the Airbase in Gibraltar, and added 1 Bomber to both London and Berlin.
In addition, the bombing rules changed to make Bombers do 1d6+2 damage on strategic bombing raids. Combined with a change to make all aircraft hit on a 1 on a d6 during air combat before a raid means it is very possible to bomb London on G1 and G2 to reduce the number of defenders you face as the German on G3.
Favoring the Allies, the Axis no longer have a NO bonus when occupying London, and the Russians (and the Americans) can declare war on their turn anytime after London has fallen to the Axis. So you can set up the Russians to invade Poland, Romania, etc, on R3. I have just never tried it, so was asking the forum if anyone had and for their results.
We are playing again this weekend. I will play all the allies. I will buy 6 Russian Tanks on R1 if Germany does a Sea Lion build on G1, and set up to invade Romania on R3 if he builds the transports on G2. We will see how it plays out.
Combined with a change to make all aircraft hit on a 1 on a d6 during air combat before a raid means it is very possible to bomb London on G1 and G2 to reduce the number of defenders you face as the German on G3.
I think this is a misunderstanding of the rules, as I think that those rules are for Strategic Bombing Raids (or SBR) and only count if the German bomber is trying to bomb one of your bases or IC. If the Germans send their bombers to hit ground targets(infantry, arty and what-not) then everything hits at normal defense. Meaning that the German player has sent his bomber on a suicide run, which is kinda dumb.
Clyde is correct. The new aircraft rules apply only to strategic bombing raids. And that is what I am talking about.
Imagine London is not bombed via strategic bombing raids on G1 and G2. Assume also no convoy disruption and DD and TR are killed off the coast of Canada. What do they have for defense for Sea Lion on G3? They have 21 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 7 Fighters, 1 Tactical Bomber, 4 Anti-Aircraft Guns, and 1 Bomber for defense. This assumes they built maximum Infantry and saved enough to build a Fighter on UK 2 and flew the planes from Africa to England.
Now if the Germans successfully attack with strategic bombing raids on G1 and G2? What do the English have to defend on G3? They have only 16 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 6 Fighters, 1 Tactical Bomber, 4 Anti-Aircraft Guns and 1 Bomber. This assumes 11 damage on each strategic bombing raid and all other facts the same.
The Germans roll over the English on G3 easy. Only way to even slow it down is to get lucky on some sea battles on UK1 or UK2.
If by the end of G1 you have 1 battleship and 2 destroyers off the coast of England, and the Cruiser in sz91 then I would say that on UK1 you should go for an all out attack on the German position in sz112 along with all your airforces. Its a suicude rush I know and you wont likely win, but you will cause a lot of damage and disrupt their invasion plan for a turn and that could make all the difference. Its risky but I’d bet the German player wont be expecting it. I’d even go so far as to say he might not have his airforce concentrated in W. Germany to scramble in response becuase he’ll be thinking you’re going to husbanding your forces to try and hold London.
Now, before everybody can call me crazy for suggesting this, I know that its risky and that odds are you will lose everything. I also know that this is completely subjective to what happens on the Germans first turn, what goes where, how many casualties they take, what they buy. I also know that this is likely only going to work once against an opponent, as once they see it happen they will always make sure to guard against it in later games, and before everyone picks this apart with the usual “well i’d just do X if you did Y” please realize that if you know a move like this is comming you can always find ways to counter it. That said, a bold an unexpected move can radically change a game and un-nerve a player and the is something to be said for gaining a psychological edge over an opponent.
I tried the British attack on the German fleet on UK1. With 1 DD, 1 BB, 2 CA, 3 FTR, and 1 SBR attacking the fleet it went very well. The German AC, BB, CA and were burning wrecks and his planes went down in the ocean. At that point Germany must build a new navy, which means less money for transports, or give up Sea Lion.
Nevertheless it is a risky attack in that both sides are about equal strength. But when you realize you have nothing really to do with the remainder of the British navy and that you can retreat after the first round of combat to save your planes then it is not such a bad attack. Roll well the first round, stay and wipe out the German navy. Roll bad, take the losses on the British navy and retreat the planes back to England.
Also it is not so easy for the Germans to defend against even when they know it is coming. One of the fighters flies on to Italy after the battle. A good many of the others land in Belgium/Holland preventing them from scrambling to help the German navy’s defense. For example any fighters or tactical bombers that attack London proper in a raid or attack the DD and TR near England cannot land in Western Germany. They must land in Holland/Belgium.
So if he commits a number of fighters to the strategic bombing raid on London, at least those planes must land on a carrier or Holland/Belgium. It is something at least.
This really breaks the game. If germany builds a carrier destroyer sub first turn I don’t see how UK can attack the fleet as germany has like a 90% chance at least to win. I really think UK needs some more defense or something. I don’t know how the allies can win with a succesfull sea lion early on like this…
See, in my old games I wouldnt place the fighter ment for Normandy in Normandy, I’d but it in London. Since its removal from the game with Alpha 3 I continue to place it in London so I usually have an extra fighter. It makes the defense a bit stronger.
You are correct that if Germany builds a carrier, destroyer and submarine on G1 and brings in some planes to scramble from Western Germany it is very hard for the British navy to drive them from the sea on UK1.
The German assault on England via Sea Lion on G3 is not automatic. They have to successfully complete two strategic bombing raids and repel the British navy on Uk1 with little or no loss to their air force. But you are right, if they do, they only face 16 Infantry (on average), 1 Artillery, 6 Fighters (assuming they lost none in interceptor duty), 1 Tactical Bomber, 1 Bomber, and 4 Anti-Aircraft Guns. The Germans will bring 22 ground troops, 5 Fighters, 5 Tactical Bombers and 2 Strategic Bombers. Even with the Anti-Aircraft Guns the Germans should roll over the British.
But I don’t see any way to stop Sea Lion. Unless the game designer intended for Sea Lion to be a weak strategy because of the removal of the German NO for London and the new rule allowing Russia to invade if London falls.
I just have not played any games where London fell under the new rules so I don’t know how the Russian offensive strategy will play out vs Germany and the Balkans on R3. As soon as I do, I will let you know.