Need feedback on my Alpha +2 G1 (setup for sealion)



  • I played global with my buddies for the very first time last weekend with OOB rules. We’re giving Alpha +2 a shot this Saturday and I wanna know how solid my G1 is, I’d like it to lead to a Sealion afterwards:

    VS. EUROPE

    WEST GERM: 3 INFANTRY, 4 MECH INFANTRY, 1 ARTILLERY -> FRANCE
    SOUTH GERM: 2 TANKS -> FRANCE
    BELGIUM: 4 INFANTRY, 2 ARTILLERY, 3 TANKS             ->          FRANCE

    NORWAY: 2 INFANTRY -> FINLAND

    RUMANIA: 1 TANK -> YUGOSLAVIA
    SLOVAKIA: 2 INFANTRY, 1 TANK -> YUGOSLAVIA
    POLAND: 1 TANK -> YUGOSLAVIA
    SOUTH GERM: 6INF, 2 ART -> YUGOSLAVIA

    RUMANIA: 2 INFANTRY -> BULGARIA

    VS. UK FLEET

    SZ124: 1 SUB -> SZ111
    SZ118: 1 SUB -> SZ111
    NORWAY: 1 FIGHTER -> SZ111
    WEST GERM: 1 TAC BOMBER -> sz111
    WEST GERM: 1 FIGHTER -> SZ111

    SZ108: 1 SUB -> SZ110
    SZ103: 1 SUB -> SZ110
    WEST GERM: 1 FIGHTER -> SZ110
    GERM: 1 TAC BOMBER -> SZ110
    GERM: 1 BOMBER -> SZ110

    SZ117: 1 SUB -> SZ109
    BELGIUM: 1 FIGHTER -> SZ109
    WEST GERM: 1 TAC BOMBER -> SZ109

    SZ113: 1 BATTLESHIP, 1 CRUISER -> SZ112
    HUNGARY: 1 FIGHTER -> SZ112
    POLAND: 1 TAC BOMBER -> SZ112

    I’m a little unsure as to what to buy for the 1st turn. I’ve heard that carriers are a solid turn 1 purchase for a sealion attempt. Should I get 2? I planned to land most of the air force in Holland after wiping out the UK fleet. On the second turn I was planning to use what was left in France to mop up Normandy and Southern France. I will most likely lose most of my infantry in the attack on Paris, but the tanks and artillery should make it out okay so I was planning on using those to take Normandy on turn 2 which would also put them in pickup range for transports.

    Turn 2 purchase I think would be all transports, using regular income and whatever I get from Paris. Then turn 3, grab infantry from Germany, support tanks and artillery from Normandy, grab the air force, and dump it all on London for turn 3. Turn 2 in the Balkans would probably see me grabbing Greece.

    Solid plan? Horrible plan? Please let me know!



  • In general you’ve got some good ideas, but there are a few specifics you need to change in order to really threaten Sealion.

    Taking Normandy on G1 is usually a necessity, both to kill the British fighter and to have 70 IPCs (10 transports) on G2.
    It’s possible to take that and both British battleships, but it’s risky.  You’ll probably have to sacrifice one of the 2 zones.  I prefer to hit 110, because the ships in 111 have much less mobility and threat.

    With your attacks on the Royal Navy, Britain would most likely scramble and kill many of your planes in 109 or 110.
    Leave 109 alone and put more force into 106/110.

    As for purchases, a carrier is a typical way to threaten London.  The other 14 IPCs can also be put into Navy to help.
    You could either get a Destroyer and a Sub, which would help strengthen your fleet and prevent England from possibly getting the no German sub NO.
    Or you could opt to purchase 2 Transports, which helps to make London protect for a potential G2 Sealion, and lets you have the maximum 13 Transports on G3.

    Hope this is helpful.  If you’d like to ask anything else feel free.



  • Creeping Death, listen to alsch91, he knows what he’s talking about. However, I prefer to leave 110 alone and deal with 111 instead, other than that, he’s spot on. One thing about your air landings, be sure 2 land on your new carrier, land 2 in southern italy, and at least 3 in west Germany (you will need max scramble units to protect both fleets).



  • i take all neutrals (bulgaria, finland, yugoslavia) together with south france (3 mech, tank?) with france. i build a AC, together with sub and transport.
    you gain 69 IPC, + 1 saved = 70: 10 transports. (making total of 12)

    i disagree with the posts above; i think both british battleships should die, for they could pose a big threat…
    bad side is that canadian transport lives, and can supply 2 troops to london (if they don’t go to brasil)



  • @Frontovik:

    i take all neutrals (bulgaria, finland, yugoslavia) together with south france (3 mech, tank?) with france. i build a AC, together with sub and transport.
    you gain 69 IPC, + 1 saved = 70: 10 transports. (making total of 12)

    i disagree with the posts above; i think both british battleships should die, for they could pose a big threat…
    bad side is that canadian transport lives, and can supply 2 troops to london (if they don’t go to brasil)

    The reason I don’t like 110 is, an experienced player would scramble the 3 fighters and cause tons of damage to aircraft, which will be desperately needed during the landing.



  • Thanks for your help guys! I now have an alternate attack plan though. Would a G2 sealion be safer? Assume most of the moves I’ve done above are the same, except that I leave SZ109 alone and beef up attacks on the British battleships. 1st turn buy would be 4 transports. On G2, assuming the Brits bought all infantry and recalled all fighters from Gibraltar, the fight would look like this:

    5 German infantry, 3 Artillery, 2 Armour, 3 Fighters, 3 Tac Bombers vs. 10 British infantry, 1 French infantry, 4 British fighters, 1 French fighter

    On average I will lose a single plane to AA fire in such an attack. I nearly match them for ground units and outnumber them for fighters. If they do not scramble I also get shore bombardment. If they do scramble, better odds for me for taking London.

    In the seazone where I’m conducting the amphibious assault are any surviving submarines from G1, a German battleship, a German cruiser, 1 strategic bomber, 1 tactical bomber, and 1 fighter. This should be enough to handle scrambling fighters, no?

    What do you think?

    EDIT: I’ve rolled it out 3 times and the Germans have come out on top every time. I may give this a go, but I’d still like to know what people think.


  • 2017

    With a 9 inf UK1 Buy and defensive moves, the UK/French forces guarding London will have a minimum 13 inf, 5 fig

    If you don’t clear or take WFR then it will be that +1 fig
    If you don’t clear SZ106 then it will be that + 1 inf, 1 tank (from Quebec)

    If the UK plays defensive, a G2 Sea Lion attempt with 5 total transports and all German air units will still most likely fail.

    Worse, a 4 transport G1 Buy may allow the UK to sink your fleet depending on how well or badly SZ112 went for Germany.

    This is why everyone is recommending a carrier in your G1 Buy.



  • Here is my blue print for an Alpha+2 strategy leading toward a G3 sealion operation.

    Germany #1

    Purchase new units phase = $30

    -1 Aircraft Carrier
    -1 Destroyer
    -1 Submarine

    Combat movement phase

    Attack SZ#112 With:

    • Tac Bomber from Poland
    • Fighter from Hungary
    • Battleship & Cruiser from SZ#113

    Attack SZ#111 With:

    • Sub from SZ#124
    • Sub from SZ#118
    • Fighter from Norway
    • Fighter from Holland
    • Tac Bomber from Germany

    Attack SZ#106 With:

    • Sub from SZ#117
    • Sub from SZ#103
    • Sub from SZ#108

    Attack Yugoslavia With:
    -1 Infantry/1 Tank from Romania
    -2 Infantry/1 Tank from Hungary
    -1 Tank from Poland
    -6 Infantry from Southern Germany

    Attack France With:

    • 4 MI/3 Infantry/1 Artillery/
       3 TB/2 Fighters from Western Germany
    • 2 Artillery/1 Tank from Holland
    • 2 Tanks from Southern Germany

    Attack Normandy With:

    • 4 Infantry/2 Tanks from Holland
    • 1 Bomber from Berlin

    Non-Combat movement phase

    Land 2 aircraft on new carrier
    Land 2 aircraft + Bomber in Southern Italy
    Land all remaining aircraft in West Germany

    Walk on Finland With:

    • 1 Infantry from Norway

    Walk on Bulgaria With:

    • 1 Infantry from Romania

    Move transport with 2 infantry from poland to SZ#112, land infantry in Norway

    Move all remaining land units from Germany to West Germany.

    Place new units

    place new sea units in SZ#112

    Collect income phase

    $30 Original income + $11 New income + $19 France’s cash + $10 NOs = $70

    Germany #2

    Purchase new units = $70

    10 transports

    Combat movement phase

    Attack Greece with all land units in Yugoslavia and Bomber from southern Italy.

    Attack any British ships blocking access to SZ#110 with remaining subs and aircraft in western Germany.

    Non-combat movement phase

    Land all air units in western Germany

    move all tanks and infantry from France and Normandy into west Germany

    Place new units

    Place all 10 new transports in sea zone #112

    Germany #3

    Buy what ever you want, load the boats, wait for good weather, and than let loose the dogs of war.



  • What do you do with the 110 ships when they swing down to SZ 92?
    I’m just curious; I usually hit them on G1.



  • @Alsch91:

    What do you do with the 110 ships when they swing down to SZ 92?
    I’m just curious; I usually hit them on G1.

    As long as they don’t hamper my sealion operation, I don’t care where they go.



  • Well they’ll be back in 110 on G3, so they will be hampering your efforts, I think.
    And it’s unrelated to Sealion, but they could crash themselves into the Italians, which is certainly a detriment.



  • @Alsch91:

    Well they’ll be back in 110 on G3, so they will be hampering your efforts, I think.
    And it’s unrelated to Sealion, but they could crash themselves into the Italians, which is certainly a detriment.

    Than I would have to land in 109.



  • Sorry, I didn’t clarify.
    I place a Destroyer or a Cruiser in 111, so 109 is not an option.



  • @Alsch91:

    Sorry, I didn’t clarify.
    I place a Destroyer or a Cruiser in 111, so 109 is not an option.

    I will go through the path of least resistance.



  • Well that path will require around 3 Fig and 3 Tacs for your Navy to get through.
    Could you take London with your remaining air power?



  • @Alsch91:

    Well that path will require around 3 Fig and 3 Tacs for your Navy to get through.
    Could you take London with your remaining air power?

    If your taking about entering and blocking sea zones that make it hell to land in London, I know what your saying and it is a problem. I have thought of blocking zones myself with my destroyer or getting the Italians to support through Gibraltar. I know that leaving the boats in 110 could turn into a headache, but I prefer having good odds in G1.



  • I agree completely.
    I actually never hit both sea zones either.
    To get around UK blocking in 110, I hit 110 instead of 111 on G1.
    It requires a couple extra planes, but I’ve found that Germany can hit 110 perfectly fine while still taking Normandy and Paris.
    As the UK player, it’s very limiting.  The ships in 111 don’t have much mobility and find it hard even to escape a G2 attack, let alone block or attack anything.



  • @Alsch91:

    I agree completely.
    I actually never hit both sea zones either.
    To get around UK blocking in 110, I hit 110 instead of 111 on G1.
    It requires a couple extra planes, but I’ve found that Germany can hit 110 perfectly fine while still taking Normandy and Paris.
    As the UK player, it’s very limiting.  The ships in 111 don’t have much mobility and find it hard even to escape a G2 attack, let al
    one block or attack anything.

    Good point.



  • @Young:

    @Frontovik:

    i take all neutrals (bulgaria, finland, yugoslavia) together with south france (3 mech, tank?) with france. i build a AC, together with sub and transport.
    you gain 69 IPC, + 1 saved = 70: 10 transports. (making total of 12)

    i disagree with the posts above; i think both british battleships should die, for they could pose a big threat…
    bad side is that canadian transport lives, and can supply 2 troops to london (if they don’t go to brasil)

    The reason I don’t like 110 is, an experienced player would scramble the 3 fighters and cause tons of damage to aircraft, which will be desperately needed during the landing.

    then UK loses it’s biggest defence at 4, versus some german figs at 3. at the end (if both lose 3?) UK then has 2 (or 3, depending on gibraltar) fig left, while germans still has 7.



  • @Frontovik:

    @Young:

    The reason I don’t like 110 is, an experienced player would scramble the 3 fighters and cause tons of damage to aircraft, which will be desperately needed during the landing.

    then UK loses it’s biggest defence at 4, versus some german figs at 3. at the end (if both lose 3?) UK then has 2 (or 3, depending on gibraltar) fig left, while germans still has 7.

    This is why UK will/should only scramble if it can actually stop the landing from taking place.

    The possibility to scramble (making germany have to commit sufficient units to the sea-zone) is more important than actually doingit. Every plane going to the SZ is not going to attack the land.



  • I think Frontovik was actually referring to the attack on SZ 110 on G1, not a Sealion invasion.



  • Oh ok, kinda misinterpreted that one then.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Look up JimmyHat.  He has a really good way to stop Operation Sea Lion in Alpha 2.  It fails MISERABLY in Alpha 3.  By that I mean, it’s almost ridiculous how easy it is for Germany to get London in Alpha 3.  If France did not fall on Round 1, I would even say it is easier to get London than France (it is not, but it’s darn close!)

    Also, by round 4 you should have Calcutta too.  So by round 4, there is no more England - at all, just a few scattered units hoping not to die until they can surrender to superior German and Japanese armies.



  • Calcutta?  I don’t see how, if India turtles and builds mostly infantry.


  • Customizer

    Jimmyhat, Alsch91, JamesAleman and I worked out the best German moves and best counters based on probabilities in this thread here:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=24022.0

    Maps are provided for people to follow.

    In Alpha 3, follow the same defense.  Don’t believe those who say it is easier in Alpha 3 as with this defense, the odds are worse for Germany on G3.

    Forgot to add james name.


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