• Hey Almost newb Player here wondering if the US can actually succeed in a KGF strategy? :|


  • Most of the games, yes it should ignore Japan - it’s hard for the US to defeat Japan on the Pacific alone and while doing it there’s a serious risk that Russia will fall first.

  • '12

    About the only thing you do in the Pacific as the US is use your lone sub to keep the Japanese fleet honest.  You should always force the Japs to escort their transports and chase off the US and or Brit sub.

    If the US does suffer an attack on Pearl Harbour the you can and should use that fleet to harass the Japs but any further investment in the Pacific theater does little there and takes away more from the other side of the map.  It takes too long for that carrier at Pearl to makes it way to Europe and play a significant role


  • Every time that I ignore Japan they get freaky strong and either smash the Russians, Africa, US or all three.


  • @Gragor:

    Every time that I ignore Japan they get freaky strong and either smash the Russians, Africa, US or all three.

    The point is to get Germany before Japan can get Russia. There are ways to slow down the Japanese advance to Moscow, and if Japan decides to go after Africa, that’s units not going towards Russia. And it’s close to impossible to Japan to conquer the US, if the Allies know what they are doing.


  • @Gragor:

    Every time that I ignore Japan they get freaky strong and either smash the Russians, Africa, US or all three.

    It’s clear to me that you must be doing something wrong, my young Padawan.


  • @Bunnies:

    @Gragor:

    Every time that I ignore Japan they get freaky strong and either smash the Russians, Africa, US or all three.

    It’s clear to me that you must be doing something wrong, my young Padawan.

    How about starting from the beginning? What usually happens during the 1st turn? What are the typical moves by each power?


  • @Hobbes:

    How about starting from the beginning? What usually happens during the 1st turn? What are the typical moves by each power?

    @Gragor:

    Every time that I ignore Japan they get freaky strong and either smash the Russians, Africa, US or all three.

    Is it time for Bunnies’ speculation?  Oh yes, it’s always that time!  So put on the coffee and dance with Bunnies as he/she/it Jumps To Conclusions!  (catch the other exciting Bunnies videos for corporate group exercises, including Dodging The Issues, Side-Stepping Responsibility, Flying Off The Handle, Pushing Your Luck, Stretching The Truth, and (for you sedentary types) Lying Down On The Job (not to be confused with Lying On The Job, which is just a given).

    I’m like Richard Simmons, only evil.

    But in all seriousness - if your opponent is skilled, and you’re trying to do KGF (Kill Germany First), it’s taken as a given that Japan will get nice and fat, or “freaky strong” as you put it.  In that case, Moscow and Africa are often difficult or impossible to secure.  The trick is that the Allies can afford to lose Moscow if they can secure Berlin (i.e. not grab it for a single turn, but actually hold on to it).  If Japan can’t take Berlin back pretty fast, the Allies win.

    Still, there is one key phrase that sets a lot of warnings off.
    @Gragor:

    Every time that I ignore Japan they . . . smash . . . US

    Danger!  Danger Will Robinson!

    And here is where I will Jump to Conclusions - that is, I say the Allies are Doing Something Wrong.  If Japan ever has even the POTENTIAL to smash the US, there is something seriously weird going on.  (Is that really jumping to conclusions or just calling a spade a spade?  Hm.)

    A typical game, I would say, looks something like this - Russia buys 3 infantry 3 tanks or 5 infantry 1 artillery 1 tank, attacks West Russia/Ukraine, retreats from Buryatia, sends Russian sub to join UK battleship/transport.  Germany buys 10 infantry 2 tanks or 5 infantry 5 tanks, trades various territories in Europe (should have Karelia, Belorussia, and probably Ukraine at end of German turn, but possibly taking West Russia), attacks Anglo-Egypt, attacks the UK battleship/transport.  UK builds carrier and 2 destroyers, kills the Japanese transport at Kwangtung, retakes Anglo-Egypt (or at least destroys all the Germans there), retreats from India and Africa, moving all forces towards Persia (alternatively attacking Borneo), and possibly attempting to take New Guinea.  Japan builds three transports and a destroyer, or two transports and an industrial complex, and attacks Sinkiang (killing US fighter and infantry), India (if possible), and Buryatia, also killing UK fleet near India.  US builds at least one carrier and one destroyer for its East Coast fleet, plus transports and ground units, flies 2 US fighters onto UK carrier that UK built on its turn.

    Later, the game goes something like this - the Germans grab a lot of territory in Africa, but don’t have the power to smash Russia in Europe.  UK and US drop units to Africa early and start retaking territory from Germany, then UK/US switch to dropping units into Europe.  (The Allies need time to build up their fleet).  Japan smashes up the Pacific coast with some light interference from the Allies, and harasses territories in the Pacific.  Some time after UK/US reclaim Africa, Japan starts messing with Africa (if it can afford to, depending on the situation in Europe).  Inevitably, the Japanese start shoving fat blocks of infantry towards Moscow ASAP, and follow up with tanks that they either build in a coastal industrial complex (preferably India, but French Indochina does fine too), and/or offload from transports from Japan.

    At this point, the Allies have to try very hard to make sure that Japan does not control Caucasus.

    Depending on dice results (there’s no way to avoid the role of dice (oo a pun) in the game) - the Allies may or may not be able to pressure Berlin while protecting Moscow.  If it looks like it’s going to be close, the Allies can abandon Moscow for a triple hit against Berlin (although trying to make sure that Japan does NOT capture Moscow right after Russia captures Berlin.)  It’s often OK to lose Moscow if the Allies can secure Berlin.  (not just CAPTURE it, but take it and keep the Japs out).

    Now yes, of course players can deviate from all that, and probably WILL deviate.  Even if players don’t set out to deviate from those general guidelines, the game can change drastically with a few dice results.  (For example, a conservative Russian turn beginning with West Russia/Ukraine attacks could fail horribly, then the Germans could build 8 tanks . . . it isn’t normal for Germany to build 8 tanks, but if Russia’s horribly weak at the start, the Germans can and should change their plans to take advantage.)

    But - that’s the GENERAL game plan.  If you see freaky stuff, it’s probably high risk.  Like suppose Japan does nothing but try to kill the US.  That means Japan has to build a lot of transports, as it races US’s huge production.  Not only that, but even an ABORTIVE attack by Japan against US eats up a lot of time.  Suppose Japan lands 5 infantry 5 tanks in Alaska.  Fine, what does it follow up with?  Another 5 infantry 5 tanks?  That requires 10 transports, or that Japan drains units from Soviet Far East.  In either event, Japan wastes a LOT of time fighting over a 2 IPC territory, while the US can just pump out a few infantry to defend against the invasion.  (OK, or a lot of infantry.  But the Japs still waste incredible amounts of time no matter how you look at it - unless US screws up and lets the Japs lock down Western US, which should never happen.)

    The units bought should be roughly like this

    Russia:  Infantry and tanks, a couple artillery.  No air or navy.  Infantry soak up hits on offense or defense, and are cheap.  Tanks are highly mobile, so have a gigantic threat range (they can charge east or west as the situation demands).  Artillery are good for when you don’t want to spend as much as you would for a tank, but you need a bit more hitting power than just infantry.  (but you don’t want to overdo artillery;tanks mobility is so useful).  Air or navy are not a good idea, unless you have something very specific in mind, and even then it’s not something to undertake lightly.

    If Russia buys a lot of expensive non-ground units, it opens the door for Germany and Japan to pound it with tanks.  So whatever Russia buys had better Really Be Worth It.

    Germany:  Infantry and tanks, and a couple artillery.  Air or navy depending on the strategy being employed.  Germany needs to produce infantry EARLY, because those infantry need to march all the way to Moscow.  But Germany can’t ignore early tanks either - tanks allow Germany to pressure Russia much faster.  Later in the game, tanks posted on Eastern Europe can threaten Allied landing on Western Europe, protect Eastern Europe, and threaten any number of territories on the German-Russian front.  So really, Germany wants a lot of tanks.

    Germany may ignore air/navy, or try some things which are not too awful -

    German bombers should be placed on Southern Europe to threaten not only Atlantic shipping, but also points in Africa.  (A couple of German infantry should be put there too).  Eventually, German bombers placed on Western Europe can trade territories on the German-Russian front and also seriously disrupt Allied shipping in the Atlantic.

    Germany may try a carrier for the Mediterranean to try to protect the African route or may try to mass fighters instead of bombers for when the Allies eventually close in.

    UK:  A carrier, two destroyers, and three to five transports total for the Atlantic fleet.  US should provide the rest of the naval defense.  The rest of the time, UK should pop out infantry and artillery and/or tanks to drop into Europe.  If the Japs move their air towards Germany (which is a sure bet for a KGF game), the Allies may get fleet locked, unless UK builds more fleet.

    If UK builds a lot of air or industrial complexes, those just delay UK from dropping cost-efficient ground.  UK needs to build some naval defensive units early, because US is too far away to get a defensive fleet in early.

    Japan:  Should not lose any battleships or carriers, and should have four to six transports in the Pacific, with an industrial complex or two, preferably on India or French Indochina in that order, pumping out early infantry joined by later tanks, and using excess transports to pull infantry off islands and to harass Australia and Africa (not all at the same time of course).  A destroyer or two can come in very handy, but Japan should try to build just one.  (Of course, what’s best changes a lot depending on the situation!)

    If US tries to push on Japan, Japan should go subs/fighters and a couple extra destroyers.  As soon as US fleet moves in, Japan’s cheap subs attack with air support.  If for some reason Japan wants to retreat, it can build new carriers and land its fighters there.  It should take almost forever for the US to really pressure the Japs, if the Japs know what they’re doing.  Meanwhile, infantry/fighters and a few tanks can still pressure Asia and possibly Africa.

    Japan should not buy battleships or cruisers, should only build a carrier or two under extreme pressure, and should pressure Asia as much as possible while maintaining a threat against any US fleet that comes into range.

    US:  Build carriers (probably two), destroyers (should have at least two on the East Coast; of course there’s one at Panama to start with), transports (six or eight at least).  Early on, the US fleet goes to the sea zone west of Algeria, probably uniting with the UK fleet.  This chops the German naval game in half, stopping the Germans from moving fleet between the Atlantic and Mediterranean.  The Allies also land units in Algeria to start reclaiming it from Germany.  If the Allies want to KGF, they can’t allow Germany to control Africa; otherwise the Germans pump insane numbers of infantry from Berlin and Southern Europe.  Even if Japan grabs Africa later, the Germans must be denied African income.  (Germany can maintain African income by blowing a LOT of IPCs on Med navy, but this also ends OK for the Allies)

    Later game, US marches units from Eastern/Western US to Eastern Canada.  From Eastern Canada, a transport drops them to London.  From London, another transport drops to Europe.  That’s why you want six to eight transports.  If you have eight transports, that’s two fleets of four transports each.  Four transports means US can maintain a flow of eight units a turn into Europe.  Both fleets can combine for a big drop to Western Europe too.


  • By the way, I don’t say my previous post is the “right” way to play the game.  For you chess players out there (and Axis and Allies is not really like chess, I know), it’s sort of like me giving general guidelines on king pawn / queen pawn openings.  “this is what you will probably see, this is what you should probably do, this is what your opponent will probably try to do, you want to try to control the center” etc. etc.

    Which is not to say that you can’t learn something from a hypermodern instead of a classic approach.  Pawn to king four followed by black’s pawn to king’s rook three seems like a stupid move, but at least one game between masters ended with black winning in the end (can’t cite the specific, just something I remember reading)

    But if you’re at the point at which you’re studying hypermodern play, you don’t really need tutoring in the basics of the classical style.

    So what’s this all come down to?  Just have fun!  yehaw!

    I eat my peas with honey;
    I’ve done it all my life.
    It makes the peas taste funny,
    But it keeps them on the knife.


  • Thanks for all the advice and help. 8-) I think I have found my real problem, Me. I don’t have anybody other than me to play against and lately my games are starting to look similar. so thanks for the help. Quick final question (if anybody’s out there) say Germany takes Gibraltar, can the allies take Gibraltar back? seeing as how Gibraltar borders SZ 13 but not SZ12.

  • '12

    A great way to learn is to review games others have played.  You can review the play by forum games here but you will have to load the map utility to get the most of reviewing the play by forum discussion thread.  You can also install tripleA and join games in progress, save the game and then dissect how others play the game.


  • @Gragor:

    Thanks for all the advice and help. 8-) I think I have found my real problem, Me. I don’t have anybody other than me to play against and lately my games are starting to look similar. so thanks for the help. Quick final question (if anybody’s out there) say Germany takes Gibraltar, can the allies take Gibraltar back? seeing as how Gibraltar borders SZ 13 but not SZ12.

    That’s why you play online.  Easier to find opponents.  Playing online also has many other advantages; for example you can play in your underwear while listening to your corporate retreat’s primal scream tapes while giving your dog a bath.  Just hypothetically speaking of course.

    Regarding Gibraltar, of course the Allies can retake it.


  • A great way to learn is to review games others have played.  You can review the play by forum games here but you will have to load the map utility to get the most of reviewing the play by forum discussion thread.  You can also install tripleA and join games in progress, save the game and then dissect how others play the game.

    Okay sounds good. . . . Question what is tripleA?

  • '16 '15 '10

    @Gragor:

    A great way to learn is to review games others have played.  You can review the play by forum games here but you will have to load the map utility to get the most of reviewing the play by forum discussion thread.  You can also install tripleA and join games in progress, save the game and then dissect how others play the game.

    Okay sounds good. . . . Question what is tripleA?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=18278.0

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