What do do with Germany



  • In the games I have played, I have seen 2 different approches to playing as Germany. In both they sacked france, and destroyed a majority of the british fleet, mainly the transports. However after that, everything is different. One buys some navy, and the other one just buys tanks. The first one sets up the infrastructure, and attacks Russia on turn 4. The latter usually just attacks Russia. The first one usally leaves normandy on G1 and takes southern france, but they focus on destroying the U.K. transporst on G1. The other just keeps spamming tanks at Russia. I would like your opinions about which one is better.

    I know that most people threaten a Sea Lion, but they usually don’t.
    Ota


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Tank spam is stupid.

    Worry about the other one… but sounds like each way, thier are about a million holes in thier plans.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Agreed.  There are tricks to dealing with “tank dashes” and one of them is to build a small core of hard hitting units, then deplete their cannon fodder as you sucker them back into your hard points.  There are others, that one is my favorite.

    Fleet is the more dangerous build for the Axis and almost always requires the United States to invest in the Atlantic.  Maybe not to a great deal, but at least some investment otherwise, the Axis will end up with submarines all over the globe convoying you to death.



  • i am playing a game as axis against cenator01, and i go just normal. attack France G1 (forget to put something in holland) G2, capture normandy, prepare for barbarossa. Maybe a sealion, or fake it.



  • I’m a fan of going a naval route with Germany as well. Convoy hits are a great way to safely damage and isolate the UK, and Italy can really use the help in the Med. I like taking Southern France with Germany and using it’s minor IC to drop German ships right in the med, gives Italy a breather and opens all of African to serious pushes. Takes a little pressure off Japan because the Americans should have to focus some of their money in the Atlantic.

    C



  • We just played a game this weekend and the player who tank spams played Germany. He actually got moscow but skipped over leningrad. but after that, he had no real naval/air defense from the U.K. U.S. navies.



  • We just played another game and more tank spam. Its really getting annoying so how do you deal with it? he always attacks G1 so I can’t pull back my beggining forces for an attack around his weak spots. Plus it seams as soon as I destroy something, 7-10 tanks come to replace it. HELP!!!



  • He attacks Russia G1? Risky IMO, leaves too little to assault Russia, and too little smash France with. Not that France is difficult to take, but I always prefer overwhelming force vs France to avoid taking too many unnecessary casualties to a country that really doesn’t matter much after the first round.
    I attack Russia generally T2 as Germany, but what action I take is always dictated by the losses I suffer vs the RN.
    If he attacks turn 1 there isn’t really much Russia can do but try and hold the line. If you think he’s fully committed to trying to knock Russia out of the game early then I’d suggest buying Infantry and trying to make it as expensive as possible. Germany will likely get Moscow in the end, but in my group this tactic was crushed by UK response and the eventual US pressure.

    C



  • What Uk ships does he attack T1? and what does he purchase R1? It seems as though there has to be some weak spots in his attacks.



  • He used to only sink my stuff in the convoy zone, but now he goes after my whole navy. The R1 attack is more of a Buffer as he calls it. Last game I landed in france with U.K. and with U.S. reiforcments began the fight for france which was liberated several times.



  • If you are playing alpha rules if he goes light anywhere make sure you scramble. He cannot attack all your fleet with out loosing a ton of planes somewhere. In OOB I don’t know what to tell you… Have US take Norway and build a major IC. Germany should be in some trouble then.



  • Cmdr Jennifer could you please elaborate on your strategy more in dealing with tank rushes/tank spaming. I like the invade norway idea as U.S. to build up fleet


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @otahere34:

    Cmdr Jennifer could you please elaborate on your strategy more in dealing with tank rushes/tank spaming. I like the invade norway idea as U.S. to build up fleet

    Rules out of the box
    Alpha +1
    Alpha +2
    or Alpha +3?

    Makes a difference on what America can and cannot do with Norway.

    Anyway, trick to tank dashes is Artillery.  Instead of paring 3 infantry per 1 artillery, up it to 1.5 infantry per artillery and then retreat into yourself.  Once you get him stretched out (hence the tank dash part) you’ll start trading insignificant infantry for expense tanks and have enough artillery to really put some threat behind you.



  • We usually play alpha 3 but we don’t use the AA gun rule or victory conditions. We make the victory conditions to where they have to control 7 on Europe and 6 in pacific. The only thing with AA guns is we don’t take them as casualties



  • That makes taking UK really easy! I think going seal lion would happen every game in that case. The axis with the rules you guys played are WAY too powerful.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @theROCmonster:

    That makes taking UK really easy! I think going seal lion would happen every game in that case. The axis with the rules you guys played are WAY too powerful.

    Already does for me WITH the AA Gun rules.  (Actually you could change the AA Gun rules but keep everything else in Alpha 3 the same and I would STILL do Sea Lion because England’s defense is GONE.)  And why not?  You can get it cheap, it’s a capitol, and it’s a victory city.  It’s a win/win/win/lose (because it’s not an NO anymore.)



  • I really would like to see more defense added to england. Make it harder to take the capital. It is ridiculous that there is no way to defend against it.



  • I challenge anyone to try to take London against me in Alpha 3 without entirely unacceptable losses - defined as losing all your Fighters/Tacs in order to take London.  Either in an actual match up to G4 or in a simple thought-experiment thread.

    I don’t think it’s quite as easy as you guys all think it is.



  • The games too easy to read. Instead of Russia retreating and reinforcing they will be able to see you going for a Sealion attempt and just stack the borders. To take UK, some German Airforce may be lost due to AAGun fire or as losses so troops can take the territory. Germany needs their Airforce, fullstop. Thats their attacking power. On top of that you have however many IPCs invested in transports that have an attack power of fuck all. Germany also needs to help keep Italy alive or at least make a foot hole for them in Africa. Thats alot to do without spending IPCs on transports. IF you could take London you will be weak in other areas. If you would like a game of Alpha 3 after our Alpha 2 game Alsch91 just let me know. (Even though Im agreeing with you, I am still curious)



  • But the player never ever builds a navy or anything for sealion. He just goes after russia which lets the U.K. do almost whatever he wants to do. All he really does is destroy the navy then everything is sent east. He at one time didn’t even do that, until I invaded france on turn 2.


  • Customizer

    Oh that’s just silly.  You can’t just leave UK alone.  Not only will they start landing in Europe, Germany will cease to exist in the Atlantic.  Forget any convoy raiding for Germany, they won’t have any subs for it.

    In one of our games, the Germany player pulled a stunt like that.  They went straight after RUssia after taking France out.  To make matters worse, Japan attacked USA and UK round 2.  So, the US sent out destroyers and planes to help UK clear out all the German subs.  Germany used their fleet to kill the Russian Baltic fleet and built transports to attack Leningrad.  Well, the UK ended up taking Denmark round 3 and since most of the heavy hitting Germany stuff was in Russia, Germany couldn’t take Denmark back.  Then the British fleet sailed in to the Baltic and finished off the German navy.
    I really don’t know what the German player was thinking.  It wasn’t long before there were US and UK troops in Europe and Norway.  UK kind of neutered Italy in the Med and wiped out the Italian forces in Africa.  Then US troops landed in Rome and Italy was pretty much done for.  Also, in spite of the aggressiveness of the Japanese, it was more or less attacking with out purpose.  Japan was one island short of getting the DEI (India fortified Sumatra and Japan just didn’t have enough to take it).  They didn’t back up their mainland forces which got whittled down and they left their capital ships exposed to attack.
    What was kind of funny was when UK and US forces were really threatening Berlin, Germany tried rushing all their armor back west.  Thing was they were too far into Russia so they couldn’t get back in time to save Berlin.  Meanwhile Russia, who was in real trouble, now had breathing room and started regaining territory.  Russia slaughtered German infantry and artillery while the German armor was obliterated in East Poland.  Japan ended up losing all ground in Asia and their fleet was reduced to a handful of lesser ships with 1 battleship and 1 carrier.  With the Germans and Italians dead, now ALL the Allies were closing in on poor Japan.  Just a lot of very bad planning on the Axis side.



  • He now said he is going to destroy the brit navy turn 1, but after that he is almost always done with the British. Last game we fought over France since the beginning as Britain took Normandy back turn 2 and since heavy german forces were all east, France was liberated turn 3 then reinforced turn 4 by America. He kept boasting that his massive panzer army (some 10-11 new tanks per turn) was going to win the war but they were all landlocked in europe, and most of them were in Russia.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Alsch91:

    I challenge anyone to try to take London against me in Alpha 3 without entirely unacceptable losses - defined as losing all your Fighters/Tacs in order to take London.  Either in an actual match up to G4 or in a simple thought-experiment thread.

    I don’t think it’s quite as easy as you guys all think it is.

    I’ll take that challenge.



  • So should I take norway as america and build a complex there to put fresh units into the fight in europe while still shipping some over?



  • Sounds fine to me Jen.  I apologize if I came off as arrogant; I’m simply interested in which tipped the Sealion balance more strongly - 5 more hits for UK vs 1 more Strat and a weaker France for Germany.


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