Gargantua's Encirclement Rules


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I’ve been reading and studying the battle of Stalingrad.  And what happend to the 6th army there….  As well as Guadalcanal, and what happend to the marines after they were abandoned.

    Atrocious - Needless to say, and the bottom line? Being encircled is VERY bad.  Despite even modern “Air Supply”.

    To make things exciting, and to add some flavour to the “tactical” portion of the game particularily in europe, on the eastern front, Mainland Asia, and the Pacific, I propose some rules regarding encirclement and besiegement.

    A few truth’s about encirclement…  the area’s are small, you are surrounded by the enemy on all sides (Neutral territories would negate this)

    RULES

    There are 3ways to become encircled

    1- If you control an Island in a singular sea zone, and that sea zone becomes occupied.
    2- If your troops in a singular territory, become surrounded on all sides by the enemy OR true/pro against neutrals
    3- If your troops are in a singular territory, that is both blockaded by enemy navy, and surrounded on all sides by the enemy OR true/pro against neutrals

    • At the start of your turn, if you have any troops that are encircled (It is your opponents responsibility to remind you), the following occurs.

    -During the Combat Movement phase, if any of your ground units, try to exit the “encirclement”, the enemy gets to roll 1@1, for each and every unit that trys to fight it’s way out.  This is to simulate weak and surrounded troops.

    -If any of your troops have started thier combat movement phase for the second time or more in a row, encircled, roll 1@2 for every unit in the territory, these units can no longer attack or attempt to breakthrough the encirclement.

    Any questions? Adjustments? Comments, or Concerns?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I’ll reiterate for clarity.  Encirlcement does NOT effect aircraft.


  • Customizer

    Hmm… I like that it is attempting to capture a very well-known element of WWII.  I’d try it (whew… at this rate I have a list of new house rules to dabble in).  I can see the island encirclement rule coming into play often, don’t foresee the others happening much though.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Gargantua:

    I’ll reiterate for clarity.  Encirlcement does NOT effect aircraft.

    There was once a game (either this or Rise and Decline cant remember which) in which encircled units were cut off from their lines of supply and lost.  I believe you had a round to reopen supplies to the men before the units were removed from the board, no shots fired.

    Perhaps that is easier than @1s, it is certainly less dice!  Of course, if it was R&D 3rd Reich then you had to cover 6 territories (or more) to encircle the enemy.


  • Customizer

    In Fortress America, each of the Invader Armies had to be able to connect a line of their own controlled territories back to an invasion zone.  Any units that could not connect that line by the end of that invaders’ turn were lost.  This could be really hard to do later in the game as the invaders pushed farther into the country.  Usually, they simply didn’t have enough combat units to actually occupy every territory in their advance and the way USA reinforcements worked, US units could pop up behind the invaders’ front lines and cut the supply routes.


  • Customizer

    Hey Gargantua, interesting idea and very historical.  I have a few questions:
    1 - When an “encircled” force tries to breakout, For example, say it is 10 infantry, the enemy gets to roll 10 dice and for each 1 rolled, an infantry is removed from the “encircled” force, right?  After that, combat proceeds as normal, right?
    2 - If a force has been encircled for the 2nd or more rounds (10 infantry for simplicity), the enemy rolls 10 dice and for each 2 or less, that many encircled infantry can NOT participate in the breakout attempt.  Say the enemy rolls 3 "2"s, then only 7 of the encircled infantry can attack to try and break out, right?  Do the enemy forces still get to roll for 1s against the encircled force trying to breakout?  Afterward, combat proceeds as normal?
    3 - Just for clarity’s sake, certain areas can also contribute to encirclement such as the Sahara, the Pripet Marshes and the Himalayas.  In other words, any of those areas could form one side of the encirclement, correct?


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @knp7765:

    In Fortress America, each of the Invader Armies had to be able to connect a line of their own controlled territories back to an invasion zone.  Any units that could not connect that line by the end of that invaders’ turn were lost.  This could be really hard to do later in the game as the invaders pushed farther into the country.  Usually, they simply didn’t have enough combat units to actually occupy every territory in their advance and the way USA reinforcements worked, US units could pop up behind the invaders’ front lines and cut the supply routes.

    Yes, and the rule I mentioned specifically is from Rise and Decline of the Third Reich…but I think both versions of supply lines would be viable on a game board this large.

    I would say:  Convoy zone or direct PASSABLE land route to the ocean or major industrial complex, or capitol.  Sahara is unpassable, so you cannot draw through it.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    1.  Yes,  if the 10 infantry try to break themselves out IE attack outwards from where they are encircled,  like an AA gun, roll one dice @1 for every unit that participates in the attack.

    2. Anything encircled 2 rounds or more, can’t attack AT ALL.  And your opponent rolls 1 dice @2 or less (On your combat move)  To see if any units die.  This is it simulate the attrition of starvation/cold/weather/ etc.

    So in other words, don’t lave your units encircled!

    3. Yes, Impassable areas contribute to encirclement.  Rommel’s tanks aren’t going to be getting supplies through the desert! 😛


  • Customizer

    What about paratroopers… they shouldn’t be as susceptible.  To quote Band of Brothers, “We’re airborne, we’re used to being surrounded.”  😉


  • Customizer

    @Gargantua:

    2. Anything encircled 2 rounds or more, can’t attack AT ALL.  And your opponent rolls 1 dice @2 or less (On your combat move)  To see if any units die.  This is it simulate the attrition of starvation/cold/weather/ etc.

    So in other words, don’t lave your units encircled!

    Okay, I get it.  So you have these 10 infantry encircled for 2 rounds, your enemy rolls 10 dice and for each 2 or less, that many of the encircled troops die that round.  Then on round 3, they can do it again and perhaps kill a few more.  So basically your enemy is eliminating this infantry pocket WITHOUT actual combat.
    Does this rule also apply to captals?  EG:  Axis forces surround Moscow. 
    How about other territories with ICs on them?  EG:  Stalingrad is surrounded by Axis.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Personally, I would say YES if you want to go the historical road.

    In BOTH Leningrad, and Stalingrad,  people were eating PEOPLE by the end!  Moscow would be no different.

    NO exceptions for paratroopers, if they are “Abandoned” for months behind enemy lines, they’re going to DIE eventually!


  • Customizer

    @Gargantua:

    NO exceptions for paratroopers, if they are “Abandoned” for months behind enemy lines, they’re going to DIE eventually!

    Yeah, I figured as much considering the amount of time each turn roughly represents. Still… I like the quote so I couldn’t resist  8-)


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Paratroopers talk a big game…

    But for examle, if Patton hadn’t have broken through to Bastogne,  they would have been massacred :S


  • Customizer

    Well, they did have it rough.  My late father - the one pictured as my avatar - was part of the armored units that broke through to Bastogne.


  • Customizer

    So your dad was in a tank in WW2?  COOL!  What did he do?  Commander, Gunner, Driver?


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Gargantua:

    Paratroopers talk a big game…

    But for examle, if Patton hadn’t have broken through to Bastogne,  they would have been massacred :S

    I still think it is a bit complicated.

    Just have a rule that says you have a full round, from the time you are cut off, to establish a line of supply (unbroken, but you can make it as conveluted as you need to establish it) to a friendly industrial complex or all units in the territory are lost.  It must be a major industrial complex or convoy zone (free of enemy warships.)  That stops you from building a minor complex to supply your troops and stops the enemy from just taking a major complex and cutting off your entire continent since you can get to a convoy zone instead.

    Maybe I think too simply?  It just seems the easier it is to understand, the better the chances of using it and spreading the idea to others.


  • Customizer

    @knp7765:

    So your dad was in a tank in WW2?  COOL!  What did he do?  Commander, Gunner, Driver?

    He was rank in a Sherman (commander/guy on top) - though I remember him laughing his *** off when I termed him a “tank commander” (he was a modest guy).  Tank’s name was Sioux City Sue (kinda why I put names and slogans on my Sherman A&A pieces   😉)  I was fortunate enough to go to some of his last army reunions… whew, the tales I heard!  And I got to copy everyone’s photos from the war - at that point, the reunions were combining several divisions due to the dwindling number of veterans.  Next time I visit home (U.S.), I’ll scan some of his photos and post 'em.  Some good ones - one of a blown up Panther, another has some captured 88’s in the background.  Interesting bits of history… I think there are some photos of his crew with some of the paratroopers that were encircled actually.  The paratroopers were pretty beat-up and damn glad to see them.


  • Customizer

    @Cmdr:

    @Gargantua:

    Paratroopers talk a big game…

    But for examle, if Patton hadn’t have broken through to Bastogne,  they would have been massacred :S

    I still think it is a bit complicated.

    Just have a rule that says you have a full round, from the time you are cut off, to establish a line of supply (unbroken, but you can make it as conveluted as you need to establish it) to a friendly industrial complex or all units in the territory are lost.  It must be a major industrial complex or convoy zone (free of enemy warships.)  That stops you from building a minor complex to supply your troops and stops the enemy from just taking a major complex and cutting off your entire continent since you can get to a convoy zone instead.

    Maybe I think too simply?  It just seems the easier it is to understand, the better the chances of using it and spreading the idea to others.

    I prefer the notion of keeping it simple.  My A&A “house rules” games have so many rules as it is…


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