Japanese Strategy with Alpha 3



  • I haven’t played this version yet, but I have looked at it. Are there any suggestions for a Japanese strategy from anyone? When I play OOB, (I never played alpha 2 because I heard about it, then alpha 3 came out a week or so later), I usually push outwards on all fronts except russia b/c the player who usually place russia doesn’t like using those units. Anyway, I go for the DEI, calcutta, and just be a pain in china. any tips?



  • Because of the huge amount of material that’s now concentrated in Manchuria and in Korea I like to assault the Russians Turn 1. Most Soviets I’ve played against have pooled the AA Guns as well as all 18 Inf in Amur to make the potential Japanese attack that much more unappealing to make. I Amphibiously Assult Amur (purely for the bombardment with the Battleship and 2 Cruisers you can bring to bare) move Aircraft from Japan, Manchuria and Korea as well as any ground forces that can make the movement. Russian reinforcements are so far away that you don’t have to worry about them in any real numbers for at least 4 turns, possibly more depending on what Germany and Italy do.
    Also Turn 1 make your assults in China where you can.
    I don’t provoke the British or Americans Turn 1, I do move my units where I can into the most advantageous position because you do have to assult them T2 before the Americans can enter the war. Ideally taking Hong Kong, the Phillippeans and Pearl Harbor. Successfully doing that gives you T3 to create your buffer between you and the US, and gives you a chance to start either taking the Dutch Territories or taking the RN & ANZAC navies out. Which you do depends on what’s available in terms of movement/supply and of course what the UK and ANZAC have waiting for you.

    Hope this was helpful, feel free to have others build on these ideas, they arn’t perfect but I’ve had success with it.

    C



  • Thanks for the tips. Usually the player who plays Russia and I make peace, and he doesn’t pool the forces together, but moves to block my route to moscow by moving the 2 stacks of 6 above amur east and the stack farthest east moves towards the capitol.



  • Unless the person playing the Soviets pulls every available aircraft from his Western Front and sends it too Amur, which would take 2 maybe 3 turns (I didn’t consult the map), there is NO way that he can hope to repel a push from Manchuria and/or Korea. They simply have way too much they can bring to bear against 18 Inf.
    It’s actually a bit of a sore spot with me, I get the historical significance of making Russia vulnerable to a assault but in terms of game play if the Japs do push then it leaves ALL of Russia open and it’s taken apart slowly. They don’t have anything even remotely resembling decent reinforcements. In Alpha 3 now they get the Mongolian territories, oooooooooooooooooo… If 18 Inf got steam rolled what will 7 Inf do? Especially given that Mongolia’s territories are worth no IPC’s and the Inf is too spread out to consolidate. The IPC bonus was a better alternative but 12IPC’s isn’t large enough to make a proper deterrent. It should be something like 20-25 and allow the Russians to place them in any orignal Russian Territory on the Pacific Map.
    In my opinion taking out the Russians J1 is one of the best plays too be made, costs Japan almost nothing, doesn’t allow Russia to declare war in Europe, and lets you have 2-3 maybe even 4 turns taking little bits of Russia’s IPC’s for yourself before they can have anything close to resembling a proper response. It also doesn’t really take away from any other goals you may have in the pacific whether it’s the Americans, British, Chinese or ANZAC, it doesn’t tie up your planes, and the Inf, Tanks and Arty it could eat up don’t serve a whole lot of purpose until later turns anyway.
    But, these are just my thoughts on it, you can draw your own conclusions, but I’d suggest trying it.

    C



  • How do you “take the Russians out” on G1? No solid Russian player will stack his inf in Amur. Now with the new rules, if you take Amur you gain only 1 IPC, but still have to deal with 24 inf spread out in Buryatia, Sakha, Siberia, Mongolia etc. Those infs can walk into China, Jehol, Manchuria now that the borders are open.  I think attacking Russia G1 is a mistake.



  • 10 Inf / 1 MInf / 1 Tank / 1 Arty / 5 Fighters / 4 T Bombers and 2 Heavy Bombers all together is what Japan can bring to bare Turn 1. If I chose to leave 2-3 of the Inf in Manchuria to protect my flank that resolves the Mongolian threat. I have to land the fighters in a friendly space so they come back as well. Defending fighters are pretty good against Infantry.
    If I were playing Japan and my Russian opponent didn’t stack his Inf together and I wanted to push that direction I would push into Amur steam rolling anything there, if he left Inf in Siberia, they’re gone as well in a seperate attack with (if I felt it was prudent) a bombardment in addition to the amphibious assault. That’s 2 IPC’s I gain first turn and Russia loses at least 6 Inf depending on how they positioned. They get Mongolia with it’s 6 Inf (in deposits of 2, 2, 1, and 1 it’ll be very helpful…) Russia can’t hope to gain anything back by attacking so their next turn is spend either consolidating their units, doing some sort of delaying tactic, and if they want they could send the Mongolian Inf into China. The closest reinforcements they have are 3 turns away(in Moscow with their 1 tank and 1 Mech Inf that should turn the tide right?) and 2 turns away by air (also from Moscow 1 fighter and 1 tac bomber). Those units are not only required in the west should Germany attack, but also aren’t nearly enough to push the Japanese away.
    J1 - Amur and Siberia (or Soviet Far East if the Russian player didn’t put Inf in Siberia)  2 IPC’s and the loss of at least 6 Inf to the Russians.
    J2 - Siberia (or Soviet Far East if I amphibed here last turn), Sakha, Buryatia and possibly Buyant-Uhaa through Jehol and Inf left in Manchuria (Depending on what Russia decided to do with them)
          That’s 3 more IPC’s and again depending on how the Russian player positioned their forces another 6 or 12 maybe 13 if the 1 Inf from Ulaanbaatar was moved and 2 AA Guns.
    And now there is 3 lets say 3 more in in Yenisey that was moved from Mongolian Dzavhan Olgiy.
    J3 - Yakut, the Tank and the Mech Inf in Moscow could have arrived if the Russian player happened to have moved them this way BEFORE the Japs attacked turn 1 so lets say they’re there, and the plane could be here as well. So this is the only battle that could hurt Japan.
    So this battle would be the Russians with probably 3 Inf, 1 Tank, 1 Mech Inf and lets say the plane. Japan could attack with 1 Tank, 1 Mech Inf, 4 Fighters, 4 Tac Bombers and 2 bombers.
    Japan probably wouldn’t need to commit so much aircraft to this because A) it’s unlikely the tank and MInf were moved east first turn, in fact they were probably moved west towards Germany which would make it turn 5 before they could arrive. B) It’s also not too likely they would have moved the plane either, it’s a suicide mission and the plane is needed in the west.
    Japan would probably lose the Mech Inf and 1 or 2 aircraft, Russia, loses what’s in the territory, and now there is nothing between the Japanese and Moscow (in terms of units in territories, things would be purchased and placed in Moscow) but it’s also almost assured that Germany has attacked Russia this turn or the previous turn preemptively so they’re going to be a little busy.
    You tell me how a ‘solid Russian player’ prevents it, or doesn’t take serious Economic damage because of it.



  • Okay, I didn’t think you would commit your entire northern JPNese force to the Russian cause… As a “solid Russian player”, I would be very pleased with myself having diverted a large chunk of your attacking units for 4-6 rounds by using my delaying tactics
    Also, I would use the Mongolian forces to take Manchuria, Chinese territories and perhaps more, as those will have been left empty by your attacking force



  • Why don’t you just go through China to take Stalingrad (and its IC), and avoid the Amur issue altogether?



  • I’m always very pleased when my territories fall apart around me for no real purpose as well. The only units you’d be tying up would be my land units, and frankly they’d still be gaining IPC’s every round. My aircraft would be tied up for a maximum of 2 turns and it’s incredibly worth while.
    I’d covered the Mongolian question in my previous post but I’ll reiterate:
    I could do 1 of 2 things, either leave some Inf in Manchuria as it starts with 6 and not all of them are needed to wreck Russia, moreover any planes I use in the battles have to come back to a friendly space in my non-combat move phase, so putting 1 or 2 of those fighters/tac bombers back in Manchuria would be MORE than adequate to deal with the 2 Infantry that could attack me in response.
    The other option would be to simply attack Mongolia at the same time that I attack Amur. The units in Jehol would be enough if I contributed 1 or 2 infantry from Manchuria.
    Going through China and attack Stalingrad would A) take a hell of a long time to even get there and B) leave 18 Infantry sitting on my boarder.
    With me focusing some aircraft north for a turn or two doesn’t tie up my entire army in Asia, if you look at Japans troop allocations in other zones it’s certainly not left wide open for China to go on an offensive and there is plenty left to attack the infantry china has to defend.
    It doesn’t tie up my navy, doesn’t limit me too much in terms of my other objectives in Asia. I don’t see any reasons why doing as I’ve described is a bad strategy for Japan.
    Also, Russia can’t take control of Chinese territories, the most they could do is help defend them, and if you think a max of 6 infantry is going to keep China safe you shouldn’t be playing Axis & Allies.
    C



  • The only way to solve this is to play an online match against each other  8-)



  • Plow through Northern China and spend all your cash doing it. You will reach Moscow before Germany.



  • I attacked Amur with JPN this weekend to test the new rule. Interesting side effect was that it was hard for the Russian infs to block the progress of my troops because I could now also go through Mongolia, maybe clearing 1 or 2 converted Mongolian inf in the process, and thus circumvent the Russian infs, block them from both sides so that they were forced to attack me.

    I think the new rule might actually be in JPNs favour



  • Go after Russia on J1 in the last 2 games Japan has done that and the one time it cost Russia all 18 Inf the other time it was a stall tactic, leave a man or 2 and step back then do it again.
      Look at the results Russia is loosing land value and Japan is gaining income, use your boats and planes to make the job easier and quicker also hit China and set up for Island grabbing on J3.  A factory is a good bet on J2. I also like a naval base at Hainan early in the game it makes it easier to get to India
      If ya play every week then experiment with it  always try to keep your opponent guessing wit a new strat.



  • In our games, Yakuts is worth 2IPC, and russia gets 12IPC when attacked to build a minorIC there as well as the Mongolian infantry. Makes it much less appealing for Japan to attack.



  • I like that Rule Clyde. Have you also considered making one of the Russian territories on the eastern side worth 0? So Russia still makes 37. Also maybe having japan get 12 IPC’s if Russia attacks manchuria or korea?



  • Something we’ve played with has a house rule (still trying to work the kinks out), if the terms of their non-aggression pact are violated and Japan attacks Russia, Russia gets 20-25 IPC’s (we’re having a bit of a hard time deciding what’s balanced) worth of units to place in any Russian territories they originally control on the Pacific board.
    We also haven’t worked out something for Japan in the event Russia attacks Japan early, not that that is likely to happen often.
    We ignore Mongolia because I think it’s a completely ridiculous rule. And Mongolia would never have sided with Japan.
    I’m open to suggestions and ideas, so lemmy know if you have any thoughts.

    C



  • so you don’t have anything to prevent russia from attacking japan? maybe 12 dollars immediately for japan and 21 for Russia if Japan attacks first?



  • We haven’t really run into the problem of Russia attacking Japan Turn 1, mostly because of what Japan starts with in Korea and Manchuria would obliterate the Inf they could use.
    Japan usually attacks Russia on their first turn (at least in the group I play with), so it’s almost always Russia getting the fuzzy end of the lollypop.

    C


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