Do you want US Marines ?



  • Do you miss the US Marines piece from the first A&A Pacific edition in 2001 ?
    US Marines is the dark green inf that cost 4 IPC and hit on 2 or less during Amphibious Assaults.

    US Marines have been part of A&A since the first Nova edition back in 1979, and to Revised LHTR in 2004. If you want them back, tell Larry with this poll.

    Japan got Kamikaze, because we cant have a Pacific game without them.
    How can we have a game without US Marines ?
    Please help us righten this wrong.

    VOTE TODAY



  • I can assure you that Marines will not ruin the game balance that Alpha+3 try to fix, because this game start in 1940 before any Marines were deployed, and so there will be no Marines in the set-up. The US player simply choose to purchase Marines if he loves them, or he let them stay in the box if he thinks its a bad investment.

    Follow the poll at Larry’s place :

    http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=6299


  • Customizer

    Razor,

    YES !  I vote to include the US MARINES IN 1940-Global.

    –---------------------

    As you probably already know Doug the “Coach” of HBG has already produced a
    US Marine Set that includes (12)Marine Infantry w/Thompson sub-machine gun,
    (2) Infantry Flamethrower, (4) Flamethrower Sherman tank,  (4) LVT(A)-1 Landing Craft, and (6) F-4U Corsair Fighter-Bomber.

    I plan on using these HBG Marines in addition to the OOB Marines mentioned above in my existing G-40 games and the new game(s) we are working on to use these and many other “new” units.
                                                                                      “Tall Paul”



  • Every nation had their elite or specialized troops. I’m totally against adding Marines. My experiences as a soldier in the Army also bias me since Marines are nothing special.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    My experiences as a soldier in the Army also bias me since Marines are nothing special

    L O L

    this is going to be good  Hands in his popcorn

    I do have to say though, from the stand point of experiences of friends and family of mine (Who served in JTF2 - Canadian version of Delta Force), the general word is that Marine’s are more “Fanatical” than they are “Problem solvers”.

    Order them to stay in Stalingrad and fight unlimited hordes of evil Russians, and they would - with a smile on thier face,  they’re tough, and all they want to do is kill and DIE for the corps.  Marines would do it without air support, tactically retreating, food, water, or supplies.  If die in place is the order - that’s it.

    But… they aren’t the ones thinking and then saying “Let’s redeply on that ridge over there, where we’ll likely suffer ALOT less casualties.”

    But hey, what do I know? I haven’t trained with them, or fought with them, or fought against them.

    Mind you after some political favours one time, I did get an official letter of gratitude from the Corps… that was cool.

    ducks and waits for bullets to whizz past his head



  • If we include marines, then how would we justify not having all the other nations’ elite units?



  • Right, sounds perfect for House rules.  Then you could have American Marines, Soviet Guards, German SS, UK commandos, Japanese Banzai, and a whole host of others.  French surrender monkey’s perhaps?:)


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    French surrender monkey’s perhaps?

    L O L


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    @Razor:

    Do you miss the US Marines piece from the first A&A Pacific edition in 2001 ?
    US Marines is the dark green inf that cost 4 IPC and hit on 2 or less during Amphibious Assaults.

    US Marines have been part of A&A since the first Nova edition back in 1979, and to Revised LHTR in 2004. If you want them back, tell Larry with this poll.

    Japan got Kamikaze, because we cant have a Pacific game without them.
    How can we have a game without US Marines ?
    Please help us righten this wrong.

    VOTE TODAY

    Looks like artillery made this unit obsolete, or am I missing something?



  • @Gargantua:

    But… they aren’t the ones thinking and then saying “Let’s redeply on that ridge over there, where we’ll likely suffer ALOT less casualties.”

    LOL, Marines never die….well, a single Marine never dies, it’s always a whole fucking platoon because their officers are the dumbest in the armed forces, lol.


  • '10

    @shadowguidex:

    Every nation had their elite or specialized troops. I’m totally against adding Marines. My experiences as a soldier in the Army also bias me since Marines are nothing special.

    Yes we need the Marines in the game and yes there should be elite units for all sides to purchase. This shadow guy does not get it, all of our troops are special.


  • '10

    @mantlefan:

    In pacific marines paired with arty on amphibs attacked at 3 I believe.

    Yep.  Superhumans.



  • I like the idea of Marines. I have been thinking of my own rules sets (slight variations of the actual rules). Like Japan gets kamikazis the US gets Marines (US infantry attack on 2 during amphibious assults on the pacific map, but arty does not increase it to 3). Not very powerful maybe, but the idea is to not affect the balance of the game very much.

    I wanted to give all the powers 1 unique power each that had historical value.



  • @mantlefan:

    In pacific marines paired with arty on amphibs attacked at 3 I believe.

    Heh - as good as a tank. Silly.

    And no - I don’t want them. If we start doing stuff like this - we open the door for different units of each type for each nation. And while fun in theory - I don’t think it would be all that fun in a game.
    House Rule them if you want them.



  • @Tall:

    Razor,

    YES !  I vote to include the US MARINES IN 1940-Global.

    –---------------------

    “Tall Paul”

    You are a real American Patriot. Thanks for your vote. I will now mail you a medal.

    Suprem Commander A. Razor d.y.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Isn’t a suprem_ something you get at Dairy Queen?



  • @shadowguidex:

    Every nation had their elite or specialized troops. I’m totally against adding Marines. My experiences as a soldier in the Army also bias me since Marines are nothing special.

    I wish I could smite you, but that option was taken away by the mods one year ago. Fortunately you are allowed to change your opinion one time, and do the right thing, before I close this poll.

    On topic:
    You are correct, every nation had elite forces.

    US Marines was not some lame elite force, it was a million man army inside the army. And they had Landing Craft’s. As you propably should have figured, amphibious assaults do favor men that come with Landing Crafts. So basically the Marines unit is not superhumans, but plain infantry that happen to use Landing Crafts. Lets imagine you pay 3 IPC for the inf and the extra 1 IPC is for the Landing Craft. Happy now ? Only USA had this advantage during WWII. The other nations had to use canoes when they invaded some crap island.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Actually, don’t lie Razor, you guys stole the landing craft technology from the Japs in the 30’s.

    Your own “Intelligence” department put the information, one of your guys on his own personal time studied whilst in china, in a folder labelled “The work of some wacko in south east asia”.

    I know the truth!


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    For the record…

    While stationed as an observer in Shanghai during the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937, Krulak took photographs with a telephoto lens of a ramp-bowed landing boat that the Japanese had been using. Recognizing the potential use of such a craft by the U.S. armed forces, Krulak sent details and photographs back to Washington, but discovered years later that they had been filed away as having come from “some nut out in China”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_H._Krulak

    There are other sources as well.  PRE-Wikipedia.



  • There is no denying that marines did play a very important part in the PTO and it would be great to see them in as an option. I have never believed that out-right denying the player the option to do something was a good move for game design. However, Marines run into the problem with giving us the option of “you CAN buy marines and deploy them in huge stacks……buy WHY would you want to?” Marines are great in terms of flavor and for personal choice, however they die just as easy as Mech infantry, coast as much, defend as well, but have none of the extra movement that makes the mech worth the 4IPC coast. Also, the rules state that marines only attack on a 2 or less when conducting an amphibious assault meaning that if your fighting overland all you have are slightly discoloured and more expensive infantry, that die just as easy. So really, your paying the extra IPC for what works out to be a one trick poney. Not saying I dont like the idea, but I can see them leaving it out of the final product.

    Including Marines would also put the game on the slippery slope of “well if you are going to include elite troops for America, why not include them for everyone?”. Again, this isnt a bad idea in and of itself, however, it might add more complications to the game. You would need to come up with different special abalities depending on what each nation would have. Also, in regards to Germany, their elite unit would likely be the SS and I believe that including them in the game would add a rather dark element given the history of these formations and what some of them did in the actual war. It adds something to the game that is left out by leaving the infantry as just genaric troops.

    Again, I dont think its a bad idea as a house rule, or even an optional rule in the last offical rules update, I just dont think it should be a staple of the game


  • Customizer

    Everyone,

    Gargantua makes an excellent point concerning Victor Krulak’s inteligence,…But itonly concerned the forward bow ramp that was later employed on the modified designs of A.J. Higgins “Eureka” boats.  Higgins had been making his Eureka’s for many years before for the oil companies, hunters, and the US Corps of Engineers.  This ultimately lead to the famous LCVP “Higgins” boat.

    I’d recommend two good books on this subject:
    Krulak”, by Robert Coram and "Andrew Jackson Higgins and the Boats that Won World War II, by Jerry Strahan.  The book about Higgins tells of the battle that he, and later the Marines had to wage with the Navy itself to overcome their “politics”.  Great reading!
                                                                                      “Tall Paul”



  • Ok, so the USA had better landing craft.  But other nations had better equipment in other areas, too.  Why include something like this for only one nation?

    If we start making different units for different countries, then we’re making a fundamental change to A&A.  I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be good as a house rule or something, but it adds a lot of complexity to the game that really isn’t necessary.


  • '10

    The amtrac actually saw more and more use in the Pacific as the war went on. The Higgins had trouble getting stuck in the coral, and the amtrac offered exit in the rear of the vehicle instead of the door lowering in the front.


  • '10

    I like the idea of Marines.  But why not make them just like the Japanese Kamikaze Rule?  Instead of being “Special Units” the USA gets a number of Amphibian Assaults that can be DECLARED as Marine assaults.  The landing infantry get a first combat round advantage.



  • @Razor:

    US Marines was not some lame elite force, it was a million man army inside the army. And they had Landing Craft’s. As you propably should have figured, amphibious assaults do favor men that come with Landing Crafts. So basically the Marines unit is not superhumans, but plain infantry that happen to use Landing Crafts. Lets imagine you pay 3 IPC for the inf and the extra 1 IPC is for the Landing Craft. Happy now ? Only USA had this advantage during WWII. The other nations had to use canoes when they invaded some crap island.

    WHOOO HOOO!  preps desk, fills pen ink, polishes apple, sharpens the chalk…to throw at you

    gotta love statements like, ‘only USA had landing craft during ww2.’  short, sweet, definitive…and wrong.  Any idea who the Ami’s got the idea for landing craft with a front drop down ramp?  Any idea what other nation was invested heavily in amphib invasions?   Thats right we got our landing craft design from the Japanese!   They got the same deal going.

    ***EDIT:
    Gah, Garg beat me to it!  Dang it man!


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