Best Bang for the Buck



  • imagine a situation where you are about to invade an island.  It is defended by 1 inf and you can bring only 1 trn worth of troops.  What do you choose?  The Inf/Art combo for 7ipcs and 4 attack value, or the inf/arm for 9ipcs and 4 attack value.  You may be counter attacked so having the additional defense of an arm might also be an advantage.

    Which is the more cost effective trn load to capture the territory and possibly defend it?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Well it REALLY depends.

    Personally, I’d be more likely to put 1 inf 1 art on the island.

    But there are occassion, like if I KNOW I’ve got to take it, and have the option, that I’ll throw an Armor out there aswell.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    You know… in the long run…

    The Inf/Artillery is better, and more “cost effective”.  Even considering the counter attack.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I agree, it really depends.

    However, let us assume I have 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery and 1 Armor and the island is not at risk of being retaken by the enemy, then I use 1 Infantry, 1 Armor.  If the island is at risk of being liberated, I use 1 infnatry, 1 Artillery.

    The former because I think the tank having 50/50 chance is better than having two units with a 33/67 chance.  The latter, because, as you pointed out, CHEAPER!



  • Wouldn’t it make more sense to always use the infantry+armor combo for that situation?  Suppose you roll two 6s on the first roll and the defender gets a 1 and you lose the infantry.  If you roll a 3 on the second roll you could take the island if you have armor but not if you have artillery.  In the case of a counterattack you would defend on a 3 instead of a 2 (or 2&3 instead of 2&2 if the infantry survives).  Besides its only 2 bucks more.


  • Customizer

    I prefer the inf/art combo.  I think you have a slightly better chance of scoring a hit rolling 2 dice for 2 rather than 1 dice for 1 and 1 dice for 3.  Plus, I just don’t like to leave tanks on islands if I can help it.



  • Inf art is always better for islands. With no exceptions.


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    On first round of combat.

    1 infantry and 1 artillery has 5/9th chance of hitting at least one. That’s 20 out of 36.

    1 infantry and 1 tank has 7/12th chance of hitting at leat one. That’s 21 out of 36.

    The odds are essentially the same the first round, but are much better with the tank if the enemy hits.

    Because the cost of the tank is quite a bit more, I prefer to go with infantry and artillery. Even better, if you have the planes to support you, go only with infantry!


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Omega1759:

    On first round of combat.

    On the first round of combat, my true love gave to me….

    Sorry…that’s what I thougt the instant I read that.

    I still say if it is a counter attack situation, go with the inf/art since the odds of the surviving armor/artillery hitting on defense is negligable.  If it si a hit and never lose, then go with the armor.  Better odds if your infantry dies.



  • @The:

    Inf art is always better for islands. With no exceptions.

    obviously not or this situation would not come up.  How is a inf/art better than an inf/arm in defense?  that’s 5 defense strength vs 4.  I used to have arm ‘sitting around’ in Japan after the US fleet came through.  They provide a threat of good defenders, provided they have a nice inf shield in front of them.  Arm defend at 3 and therefore have a reason to be on islands.

    Thanks for putting the numbers up Mantlefan, you’re right in that its not just about having the strongest unit left after the battle to defend, but also to have the strongest attack in order to take the island.  I think inf/arm is stronger after looking at those numbers mostly because if you take a casualty but don’t deal one out, round 2 is arm vs inf instead of art vs inf.


  • '10

    @mantlefan:

    Could the tank be used somewhere where moving it 2 is useful in the forseeable future? Or is it just a 3a 3d unit in its usefulness to you?

    That’s the big one for me when going after an island under your situation. You pay a little more for tanks, for one, because of its extra movement, and then it gets stuck on the island. It’s not like it would be a bonehead move to use a tank, it’s really not much difference as others have said, but if you got a frontline somewhere else on land the tank would be more usefull there than going after the island.



  • @Cmdr:

    @Omega1759:

    On first round of combat.

    On the first round of combat, my true love gave to me….

    Four AA-hits, three tanks shots, two artillery misses and a sole infanteeereeeeeee

    Sorry i couldn’t resist 🙂

    On topic: inf/art is alweays a good basis for any attack/defence force.

    Amphibious, if i have 2 transporters, i like the combo 2inf/1art/1tank.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    5 STRATEGIC bombing RAIDS!!!


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Col.:

    @mantlefan:

    Could the tank be used somewhere where moving it 2 is useful in the forseeable future? Or is it just a 3a 3d unit in its usefulness to you?

    That’s the big one for me when going after an island under your situation. You pay a little more for tanks, for one, because of its extra movement, and then it gets stuck on the island. It’s not like it would be a bonehead move to use a tank, it’s really not much difference as others have said, but if you got a frontline somewhere else on land the tank would be more usefull there than going after the island.

    Could the tank be landed on a continent the next round and it’s movement fully utilized again?  If the island is a way station…



  • For those of you with an Android phone I would recommend the Axis and Allies simulator. You plug in what type of game you are playing, any special conditions that exist, what unit types, what type of battle, etc. and it runs the battle 1000 times and let’s you know the outcome. We actually ban it from games, but helps when considering a tactic or in post-play. Obviously there are other factors to consider other than the odds, but it can’t hurt.

    Here are the results of a few sims I have run for the amphibious assault of 1 defending infantry vs. the various transport arrangements.

    Attacker : Defender | Attacker Win Avg. | Defender Win Avg. |Total Destruction |Attacker avg. IPC Loss | Defender avg. IPC Loss
    Inf. 2        Inf. 1      67.5%                  27.1%                    5.4%                3                                2

    Inf. 1
    Art. 1        Inf 1        86.7%                  9.3%                    4.0%                  2                              3

    Inf. 1
    Tnk. 1      Inf. 1      90.1%                  4.9%                      5.0%                2                              3

    As always I think the best bang for your buck is Inf and Arty. Again, there are other factors to consider, such as your overall objective.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Interesting that the chance for total destruction is 1% higher if you use an armor, than if you use inf and artillery….


  • '10

    @Cmdr:

    Could the tank be landed on a continent the next round and it’s movement fully utilized again?  If the island is a way station…

    I was thinking about that while typing my response. That’s a glass half full, half empty situation. On one hand you’re not getting a tank until at least two rounds later because movement on the transport, but you can also look at it as getting a “free” tank to move with your latest purchases. Of course, that’s only if the orgin or the final destination on a continent of the transport is one turn away from the island you are attacking.



  • @Cmdr:

    @Col.:

    @mantlefan:

    Could the tank be used somewhere where moving it 2 is useful in the forseeable future? Or is it just a 3a 3d unit in its usefulness to you?

    That’s the big one for me when going after an island under your situation. You pay a little more for tanks, for one, because of its extra movement, and then it gets stuck on the island. It’s not like it would be a bonehead move to use a tank, it’s really not much difference as others have said, but if you got a frontline somewhere else on land the tank would be more usefull there than going after the island.

    Could the tank be landed on a continent the next round and it’s movement fully utilized again?  If the island is a way station…

    No.  Most likely that tank is going to die in the counter attack.  So it’s value as a move 2 unit is irrelevant.  It will die.  It will die before it can move again.  So knowing the units you bring over are going to die, would you rather bring a inf/art or inf/arm for the better attack value and defense value…for 2 more ipcs.  I think for a country with a lot of ipcs, like US or Germany, inf/arm is the way to go.  You get better dice and if you get the chance to land in Japan or SAmerica you might just want that tank anyways.  But for a poor country like Italy or ANZAC going the cheap route might be best.



  • @BlynderOG:

    For those of you with an Android phone I would recommend the Axis and Allies simulator. You plug in what type of game you are playing, any special conditions that exist, what unit types, what type of battle, etc. and it runs the battle 1000 times and let’s you know the outcome. We actually ban it from games, but helps when considering a tactic or in post-play. Obviously there are other factors to consider other than the odds, but it can’t hurt.

    Here are the results of a few sims I have run for the amphibious assault of 1 defending infantry vs. the various transport arrangements.

    Attacker : Defender | Attacker Win Avg. | Defender Win Avg. |Total Destruction |Attacker avg. IPC Loss | Defender avg. IPC Loss
    Inf. 2        Inf. 1       67.5%                   27.1%                    5.4%                 3                                2

    Inf. 1
    Art. 1        Inf 1        86.7%                   9.3%                     4.0%                  2                               3

    Inf. 1
    Tnk. 1       Inf. 1       90.1%                   4.9%                      5.0%                 2                               3

    As always I think the best bang for your buck is Inf and Arty. Again, there are other factors to consider, such as your overall objective.

    Yeah, that app is excellent.  We too bar it from gameplay.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @-Wolverine-:

    @BlynderOG:

    For those of you with an Android phone I would recommend the Axis and Allies simulator. You plug in what type of game you are playing, any special conditions that exist, what unit types, what type of battle, etc. and it runs the battle 1000 times and let’s you know the outcome. We actually ban it from games, but helps when considering a tactic or in post-play. Obviously there are other factors to consider other than the odds, but it can’t hurt.

    Here are the results of a few sims I have run for the amphibious assault of 1 defending infantry vs. the various transport arrangements.

    Attacker : Defender | Attacker Win Avg. | Defender Win Avg. |Total Destruction |Attacker avg. IPC Loss | Defender avg. IPC Loss
    Inf. 2        Inf. 1       67.5%                   27.1%                    5.4%                 3                                2

    Inf. 1
    Art. 1        Inf 1        86.7%                   9.3%                     4.0%                  2                               3

    Inf. 1
    Tnk. 1       Inf. 1       90.1%                   4.9%                      5.0%                 2                               3

    As always I think the best bang for your buck is Inf and Arty. Again, there are other factors to consider, such as your overall objective.

    Yeah, that app is excellent.  We too bar it from gameplay.

    Get virtually the same thing from Frood, but I think his is WAY more detailed and user friendly. Doesnt do Global or Anniversary though.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    No offense, but I do all that in my head, even when I play online… based more on guts, than factual probabilities, because at the end of the day it’s dice.

    Do you need to win?  YES
    Are you likely to win? YES
    Are you likely to win with more stuff? YES

    If you get 1 out of 3, probability is that you should go for it.

    I’m not going to trust my game to a bunch of batteries.  My guts are good enough of a gauge.



  • @JimmyHat:

    @The:

    Inf art is always better for islands. With no exceptions.

    obviously not or this situation would not come up.  How is a inf/art better than an inf/arm in defense?  that’s 5 defense strength vs 4.  I used to have arm ‘sitting around’ in Japan after the US fleet came through.  They provide a threat of good defenders, provided they have a nice inf shield in front of them.  Arm defend at 3 and therefore have a reason to be on islands.

    B/c first off, like has been said before, infantry artillery is a more cost effective attack than infantry tank. But there are even more reasons in this situation b/c it is an amphibious assault. First off, part of the cost of a tank is built into its move. Therefore, if you are transporting it to islands part of its value is lost and you are being cost ineffective. And secondly, you should never rely on land units to defend islands. One b/c any one who attacks you will probably be using at least two units and some support (either more transports, planes, or fleets). Two b/c although they might attack you, they also may not. So leaving your tank their would be like killing it. Three, b/c the only way for your opponent to get to his land units onto your island to fight your theoretical tank would be to kill your fleets, and you probably shouldn’t have attacked unless your fleets could hold their own. And four, even if you left your tank their to defend, which you shouldn’t have done, and your fleets swam away but remained within striking distance of the island (which they would do if it was worth keeping, and if it’s not, then again why bother defending it with a tank anyways) then the only reason your opponent would attack your island (unless he is below average intelligence) would be if he could defend his fleet from your fleet, in which case his army and supporting units will not be hindered by a tank, which, although better on defence, is not better per ipc on defence. I could go on for every situation, but I covered all of them that I could think of.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    You might be likely to win hitting a German landing in Arkhangelsk, but if that opens you up to an attack from Bryansk, you might not want to do it.  Though, it would satisfy 1 of 3 parameters.  Just playing Devil’s Advocate here.  (I know you would never, I am just trying to point out that there is a lot more to it than whether it is a good idea or not.)

    I agree, you don’t always need a calculator.  Many of us intrinsically know the odds of success for many battles and, I should point out, I have NEVER seen a calculator accurately calculate the odds of any major naval engagement, EVER.  This one is the worst: http://www.dskelly.com/misc/aa/aasim.html or all the calculators for naval battles.  (Does happen to do a good job of say Tactical Bombers, considering http://www.campusactivism.org/aacalc/ doesnt even have the option for them, or two hit aircraft carriers.)  So you really end up trying to run a LL situation in your head and trying to figure out how your opponent will respond.  I’ve gotten very good at naval battles, and I usually end up “beating the odds” because the calculators REALLY SUCK at running naval battles.  Don’t ask me why.  If I had to guess, it was inaccuracy due to the two hit properties of capitol warships, but I am not an expert on their code, nor am I a techie gal.

    Why do I mention this?  Because there is talk of calculators and I want to emphasize that you cannot reroll the dice because the calculator said you should win.  You always have to run the numbers in your head as well.  Could Eisenhower say “The calculators said we would win on the beaches of Normandy!  I call a do over because you rolled 6 hits with your AA Guns!”  Of course, if you are trying to test a game strategy, you might want to continually rewind and redo things so you can be sure you are really testing it.  In league/tournament?  Oh yea, you better run them numbers on paper, in your head and with at least on calculator, IMNSHO. (In My Not So Humble Opinion.)



  • @The:

    @JimmyHat:

    @The:

    Inf art is always better for islands. With no exceptions.

    obviously not or this situation would not come up.  How is a inf/art better than an inf/arm in defense?  that’s 5 defense strength vs 4.  I used to have arm ‘sitting around’ in Japan after the US fleet came through.  They provide a threat of good defenders, provided they have a nice inf shield in front of them.  Arm defend at 3 and therefore have a reason to be on islands.

    B/c first off, like has been said before, infantry artillery is a more cost effective attack than infantry tank. But there are even more reasons in this situation b/c it is an amphibious assault. First off, part of the cost of a tank is built into its move. Therefore, if you are transporting it to islands part of its value is lost and you are being cost ineffective. And secondly, you should never rely on land units to defend islands. One b/c any one who attacks you will probably be using at least two units and some support (either more transports, planes, or fleets). Two b/c although they might attack you, they also may not. So leaving your tank their would be like killing it. Three, b/c the only way for your opponent to get to his land units onto your island to fight your theoretical tank would be to kill your fleets, and you probably shouldn’t have attacked unless your fleets could hold their own. And four, even if you left your tank their to defend, which you shouldn’t have done, and your fleets swam away but remained within striking distance of the island (which they would do if it was worth keeping, and if it’s not, then again why bother defending it with a tank anyways) then the only reason your opponent would attack your island (unless he is below average intelligence) would be if he could defend his fleet from your fleet, in which case his army and supporting units will not be hindered by a tank, which, although better on defence, is not better per ipc on defence. I could go on for every situation, but I covered all of them that I could think of.

    Interesting.  None of these situations are applicable!  I think you missed that 747 that flew overhead, I’ll help you out.  This is a theoretical question as to which combo is the best on offense and defense.  Defense because you can expect your opponent to hit the island on their turn.  Not think about it, but hit it.

    I have read studies that say women have a hard time visualizing situations in their minds eye, so I’ll even give you a concrete example to lower confusion.  Lets talk about Philippines.  Japan want to take it back, for whatever reason but cannot contest the seazone with anything more than a blocker, and only has 1 trn in range.  Now some players might not take the island, but some might.  Japan invades the island with 1 trn.  They control the coast, so an arm is of limited value on the continent. (but defends at 3, so a value none-the-less)

    So now you know the situation a bit better, your fleet is not parked outside this island.  It is getting attacked.  It is defended by 1 inf.

    I think another advantage to the 1 inf/1 arm combo is that if you miss in the first round of combat and he hits, you only lose 1 attacking pip instead of 2.



  • Ah, you’re right, I do have trouble visualizing situations, so thanks for your example. In any case I would still opt for an infantry and artillery first b/c i still believe that the movement value is wasted, the hit points per cost still is in the inf and art’s favor, and because you don’t win wars by defense; tanks don’t equal their cost defending by themselves for one turn, they equal their cost by constantly attacking and being shielded by infantry. However, I wouldn’t be deterred from attacking if all i had was a tank and an infantry either.


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