How should I bomb UK?

@Vance:

The benefit would be that since they want to be able to scramble fighters to protect ships next turn, they have to spend a few bucks now to rebuild the airbase.  If I were to hit the IC instead, they could ignore that damage and still build cheap units.  Hitting the airbase forces them to spend money on rebuilding.  Notice that this is kind of like the real battle of Britain.

I don’t do Normandy on G1.  Two subs go to the Canadian navy.  The 3 AAs from West Germany can help defend the stutkas in Holland.

Hitting the Industrial Complex is a higher priority, but you only start with the 1 strategic (and I am starting to use that for SZ 109 instead.)  The airbase/naval base is a good idea, if they don’t repair it, you never have to go back and if they scramble interceptors, you might luck out and get a 10 IPC unit instead of doing 3 dmg to a base somewhere (or in addition too.)

2 Submarines in SZ 109 are highly effective, if you can kill both destroyers.

An extra submarine in SZ 106 and you’re up to 11 Convoy Damage to England a round for 4 rounds before America can do anything about it. (And then it is only 1 submarine off Canada.) Yes, they could put a destroyer in SZ 106, but then, you still have 60% odds of sinking it (40% win, 20% tie, 40% lose) - http://www.campusactivism.org/aacalc/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=1&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=1&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-Arm-Car-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Bom-HBom-Inf-Art-Arm-Sub-SSub-Car-Des-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=Revised&round=1&pbem=

I’d trade a submarine for a destroyer if I was iflicting economic dmg on England. 8 IPC destroyer instead of 3 convoy damage?  Sure.  With Gibraltar in my hands, getting a replcacement there is no problem wither.

No way.  Use the tacs to increase your odds on other battles.  England still gets to fire AA guns at them.
Mantle pointed out the max amount to get operational would cost 4.  I would look at it this way.  If you survive the AA fire (83% chance for each), then you have a 33% chance of rolling a 1 or a 2, which costs England nothing (on UK1, at least).  33% chance of costing them 1 or 2, and 33% chance of costing 3 or 4.

So through UK1, your weighted average of damage is only 1/2 IPC, and that’s rounding up.
There is a 16.7% chance of losing an 11 IPC tac, or about 2 IPC’s.  Plus, you’re giving him options - to decide whether to scramble or intercept.

I like that you’re thinking of all your options, but I think it is absolutely a bad idea to strat bomb bases on G1.

One more thing.  Germany’s aircraft threaten the UK and Russia.  You do NOT want to give the allies extra chances to shoot these tacs down, because destroyed planes threaten no-one, and frees up options for both Russia and the UK, which is very bad.  Since Germany can produce more units than she can afford anyway, you do not want to be replacing aircraft in the early turns.

Bombing the UK will not work unless you get lucky, this is a high risk / low reward strategy. The Germans have better use to make out of their planes than bombing the UK.

E.g.,

Killing destroyers and preventing scramble of the RAF, letting the subs do their jobs
Giving a hand to Italy in the med.
Protecting Gibraltrar
Helping the Afrika Corps (my new plan involves the Germans going down to Africa)
Pounding on the Russians

I don’t think there is a hurry to interdict. The important issue is complete Naval / Air Dominance over the Atlantic.

Here is how I see it,

I buy 2 subs, 1 carrier. (or substitute 1 sub for a destroyer)

I send 2 subs to 106. Baring  bad dice, the destroyer / transport will be destroyed and there will be 1 or 2 subs left. Unless the UK player sends the destroyer from 109 after 106, convoy damage of 3 should be given.

All the sea zones but 111 and 109 are cleared off. If the UK player joins it’s fleet in 109 on his turn (2 destroyers, 1 battleship and 91 cruiser + 3 planes, or 4 planes if leave a loner in scotland + whatever they build) then I will have to counter on 109.

3 subs from 112 (original 124 plus purchases)
Likely 1 sub from 110, although not sure
1 Battleship
1 Cruiser
1 Carrier
1 Bomber
All my tac / Fighers, including those from S Italy (because of carrier)

The fleet can come from 111 / 119 (from 112) or from 110, so this thing is hard to block.

So if the UK joins up in 109, I’m perfectly fine with that!

So then it’s clear that the UK player won’t consolidate in 109. So he’lll need to put the 2 destroyers, the battelship and the cruiser somewhere else, but where? Cruiser is probably best suited to go help in the Med (e.g., block 92).

Zone 124 is a bad idea, too many planes (bomber, carrier planes + planes landing on carrier) / subs  / surface fleet can reach

Zone 123 may look safer, because less planes can reach, but all subs from 112 + surface fleet is enough to do the job. Add to this the subs from 106 and this is a bad idea.

119 is not safe either, can’t easily be blocked

118 may be the best option, but still need a block in 119 and 109… Again, this is in reach of bomber, and carrier planes.

So I think the UK Navy will be finished off at this point with minimal cost to the German (at this point, your surface fleet can hang out in 109 to hold it for good, forget about the destroyers). The German fleet needs to be built anyway to deal with the US.

Then start building subs in Normandy to send to 91 / UK Convoy zones. This forces the US navy to spend at least some in the Atlantic. Subs are cheap, expandable and hard to kill. They can help build a formidable defence in Gibraltar, or if appropriate, a force to counterattack sea zone 91 (along with planes).

I have not determined when the US enters the war. I am praying for the UK to declare war on Japan. Sure thing, my Germany won’t try to invade the UK (although I might if opportunity present itselfs, e.g., lots of builds off Canada), I will isolate it and overwhelm it with impossible odds to defy the German fleet and air force.

Meanwhile, Italy better kick butt in Africa to further reduce UK’s relevance in the game.

I have seen, in atleast one or 2 games the successful knocking out of Britian by non-invasion means. There are 2 ways that you can best achieve this and both hurt Britian in very different ways.

The first is pretty obvious and that is to focus the Axis on taking out as much of Africa as they can. Yes I know, its much eaiser said then done, but Britian has more of its economy based in Africa then anywere else in the game. Aggressive and active German involvment in a push on Cairo will help the Italians and Hurt the British immensely. Barring that buying subs and sending them to hang out in the south atlantic and raid the convoys down there will have the same effect. I would reccomend building the subs you intend to use for this in South France, and plan on capturing gibraltar.

The second way, and most effective ive seen, is buying a few extra bombers, and spending some resources on researching heavy bombers. The first time I saw this happen it was an accident, the player rolled random and got heavy bombers. He then spent the next several turns bombing London and all its bases in to oblivion. The amount of damage he was able to do with a fleet of 4 heavy bombers was devistating. Britian was left useless, unable to build anything with out first spending nearly 1/2 to 1/3 of its economy repairing damage done to its IC. This really put Britian on the back foot and made them a non-entity in Europe. With this, the German player also built his sub fleet back up a bit and placed an air base in normandy. This allowed him to block early attempts by the US to send reinforcments to Britian, and was able to keep them out of Europe for a few extra crucial turns.

@mantlefan:

2 key questions: Did you attack Normandy, and if not, what did you put in Holland?

Here is the turn:

Build Aircraft Carrier + 1 sub + 1 destroyer in zone 112

Take 112 (1 cruiser, 1 sub and 1 battleship)
Take 106 with 2 subs (117 / 118)
Take 110 (against BB and Cruiser + 3 scramble) with 2 subs (103/ 108) +  1 bomber 3 tactical (W. Germany) + 2 fighters (1 from Holland, 1 from Norway: none of these to south Italy)
Take France Turn 1 (4 infantry, 4 mec, 3 artillery, 4 tanks, 1 tactical from Poland, 1 fighter from Slovakia)
Take Normandy Turn 1 (Destroy fighter to help Italian Fleet) - 1 Infantry, 1 tank and 1 fighter, Attack with 3 infantry, 1 tank, 1 tactical from Germany, 2 fighters ( 2 from W Germany)
Take Bulgaria with 1 infrantry from Romania / Finland with 1 infrantry from Norway
Take Yugoslavia (3 tanks, 6 infantry with 3 from great southern germany, 1 from romania, 2 from slovakia, 2 artillery from great southern Germany)

Move 2  fighters to Southern Italy (from Western Germany, attacked Normandy)
Land tactical from Poland in W. Germany
Land Figher from Norway on Carrier
Land Figher from Holland on Carrier
Land fighter from Slovakia in Holland
Land 1 Tactical from W. Germany to W. Germany
Land 2 Tacticals from W. Germany to Holland
Land 1 tactical from Germany in Holland
Move 3 AA Guns to Holland

In Holland: 3 AA guns, 3 tac, 1 fighter
In West Germany: 2 tactical, 1 strategic bomber
On 112: 1 damaged battleship, 1 cruiser, 2 subs, 1 destroyer, 1 carrier, 2 fighters
In South Italy: 2 fighters

25 / 36 chance to not lose a plane in  France
Should not lose planes anywhere else unless UK scrambles

I’m considering taking a tac out of 110 to beef up 112 and reduce its variablility (since willing to gamble that UK player won’t scramble). 112 has a 50% chance of wiping out the 2 cruisers in 1 round, in which case the worst case scenario is losing the sub with 1 chance out of 4, provided the sub did not hit (no biggie). Chance of a total miss on first round is about 10%, in which case the cruiser should hit 1 on average. On next round, again, 50% chance of wiping out completely, if not trouble starts!

Have flexibility to retreat from 110 if rolls are bad (although would prefer to kill that battleship instead of giving UK opportunity to repair it!)

Another option is to reinforce 112 with the Polish Tactical heading for France but that seems to hurt that battle too much…

Comments / suggestions?

@Vance:

So the consensus is don’t bomb them on G1 and use the bombers to help finish off the UK navy on G2 wherever they assemble their fleet.  But suppose UK doesn’t put all their ships in one basket.  They could move the cruiser from 91 and the destroyer+transport from 109 to 106 plus a fighter to New Br106 in order to put those 3 ships safely out of range and also deal with my sub(s).  They could also move the battleship and destroyer from 111 to 119 to cover that convoy route and also keep them out of range of my fighters and tactical bombers.  In that scenario do you think I should use the bombers against 119 or for strategic bombing?  If the answer is strategic bombing, then which airbase(s) and/or industrial complex?  Would it be preferable to take out the 119 destroyer and slip a sub or 2 into 109?

In this case you can sink the fleet in 119 with planes from your carrier, bomber and a couple of subs left around the UK. You can occupy 109 with your surface fleet and stick around. The UK at this point needs to buy land units because otherwise we can go sealion pretty quickly!

If you lose 106, nothing you can do about that, but that makes a sealion more likely to happen.

@Vance:

So the German battleship, cruiser, aircraft carrier with 2 fighters, and 2 subs can sit in 109 costing the UK 6IPCs per turn for a long time, and it would be costly to remove them.

With that equipment in 109 you would take 8 IPC from UK.

109 is in range of 91. Let the American come to you and take them apart when they come of 91. Then, come back to 109, if possible.

@Vance:

Do the surface ships convoy raid too?  I thought it was just subs.

It’s one per surface warship according to rules OOB. Don’t know if that has changed…

@Omega1759:

@Vance:

Do the surface ships convoy raid too?  I thought it was just subs.

It’s one per surface warship according to rules OOB. Don’t know if that has changed…

No, it’s the same.  1 per surface ship, 2 per sub, 3 per German sub.