Single U Boats Convoy at 3 IPC's instead of 2



  • So I haven’t played with UBoats getting a Convoy at 3 IPCs instead of 2 IPCs.  Optional Rule.

    Does it dramatically change the game in Global?  Is it a good rule?  Or too much of an Axis Advantage?

    Most of the time I have to rebuild my sub forces and there really aren’t that many convoy spots to hit the Allies in…  SZ 119, 109, 106 and when the Allies take Norway or Normandy  125, 105.  (thanks for the map I got from the  forum I use it all the time to look at when I’m referencing posts)

    It seems that it could be a good advantage although a Minor one.

    Just looking for feedback on how it was best exploited in games where it was used.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    This is the BEST optional rule ever invented for Axis and Allies.

    And it should be used every game.  The Axis needs the edge, and it opens up an entirely DIFFERENT campaign and strategy for the Germans, which is historical  - IE Sub interdiction/SBR instead of sea-lion invasion.

    It is a regular tactic for me to interdict the crap out of the British,  I’ve played games (Long) where interdiction has cost in the hundreds of IPC’s by the end.

    Give it to the Germans for a better playing experience, and more FUN.  The subs pay for themselves with your opponents IPC’s!  So it seems…


  • '10

    @Gargantua:

    It is a regular tactic for me to interdict the crap out of the British,  I’ve played games (Long) where interdiction has cost in the hundreds of IPC’s by the end.

    One day, you’ll have to tell me how it’s done…
    In my games, Uk often has a destroyer (or more) in sz106 and a bunch of planes in Uk so that any try to suck UK IPC in sz 109 or 119 is due to fail.



  • @Axisplaya:

    @Gargantua:

    It is a regular tactic for me to interdict the crap out of the British,  I’ve played games (Long) where interdiction has cost in the hundreds of IPC’s by the end.

    One day, you’ll have to tell me how it’s done…
    In my games, Uk often has a destroyer (or more) in sz106 and a bunch of planes in Uk so that any try to suck UK IPC in sz 109 or 119 is due to fail.

    I will admit that I HATE BUYING DESTROYERS with ANY  Power.  The loss of IPC’s to chase Subs so I can build a fleet is just terrible.  They ONLY thing they do for 8 IPCs is destroy subs.  My last game I rolled terribly with my battleships defending Britian and with 4 subs were in SZ 109  and it took the USA on turn 6 to finally allow me to build a fleet.

    Yes 109 destroyer usually survives,  but its only one.  and I usually build a sub G1  and waste the remaining subs with aircraft to take out 109 when I play germany on G2.  IF he hasn’t withdrawn them to SZ 106 off of new Brunswick.

    NOTHING IS Worse than HAVING to buy destroyers.  Since they no longer bombard and can’t carry troops (Pacific 99 for japan)



  • Sub fodder for sea battles is also way cheaper than destroyer fodder too!


  • '10

    @AllyAxis:

    Sub fodder for sea battles is also way cheaper than destroyer fodder too!

    Yeah, but the problem with this is that they can’t be used as fodder when your fleet is attacked by a ton of planes…In the pacific, this is likely to happen if you beef your US fleet with too much subs and not enough dds…



  • @Axisplaya:

    @AllyAxis:

    Sub fodder for sea battles is also way cheaper than destroyer fodder too!

    Yeah, but the problem with this is that they can’t be used as fodder when your fleet is attacked by a ton of planes…In the pacific, this is likely to happen if you beef your US fleet with too much subs and not enough dds…

    Good points.  I was thinking Atlantic war.  Pacific for US  yes you have to build some destroyers for fodder which I hate,  but it is a necessity.  But US has tons of money.  Japan does have a huge airpower advantage and its just easy to buy just the aircraft carriers and pipe over japan planes to load them up since you have so many starting out.  Hopefully Alpha 3 will reduce the Japan airpower advantage a bit.



  • still don’t like buying destroyers tho.  rather save up for aircraft carriers with suck in hits and load with planes as many carrirers and planes as I can for US or Japan,  but subs still are deadly in packs that hunt my fleets.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Alright, I’ll tell you.

    You have to send 2x subs at the destroyer off of canada,  WHEN you win, you are already interdicting.  Yes, he can send his other destroyer from GBR to Sz106 to fight your subs… but chances are it’s 1@2 vs 2@1, and if he sends fighters, or builds more destroyers, you sea-lion.

    Alas you say, your opponent often keeps and builds destroyers off of the UK,  on later turns (Where America goes KJF).

    Riddle me this,  from G2 to G6 what are your planes doing?  That’s the secret.  Overwhelm the seazone with your own planes, and the odd sub build (1 or 2 subs a turn from G2 to G5 on - unless you sealion).

    You can par out his scramble, by sending 5 of your own aircraft and a sub, against his destroyer builds.

    Failing that, get them into the mediterraean, or along the south coast of Africa,  always remember to keep moving your subs to either safe-zones, or southern zones for interdiction.

    Loathe the day they do it to you…


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Loose subs are a GREAT weapon against the first American landings at Gibraltar if/when they come.

    Everyone forgets that subs can come through the canal there,  and 5 subs loosely on the board, don’t look like anything, until they MERGE, with fleet elements from 112, and remaining airforces.  Kaplow! 😛 😛 😛


  • '10

    @Gargantua:

    Alright, I’ll tell you.

    You have to send 2x subs at the destroyer off of canada,  WHEN you win, you are already interdicting.  Yes, he can send his other destroyer from GBR to Sz106 to fight your subs… but chances are it’s 1@2 vs 2@1, and if he sends fighters, or builds more destroyers, you sea-lion.

    Alas you say, your opponent often keeps and builds destroyers off of the UK,  on later turns (Where America goes KJF).

    Riddle me this,  from G2 to G6 what are your planes doing?  That’s the secret.  Overwhelm the seazone with your own planes, and the odd sub build (1 or 2 subs a turn from G2 to G5 on - unless you sealion).

    You can par out his scramble, by sending 5 of your own aircraft and a sub, against his destroyer builds.

    Failing that, get them into the mediterraean, or along the south coast of Africa,  always remember to keep moving your subs to either safe-zones, or southern zones for interdiction.

    Loathe the day they do it to you…

    Okay, i get it. So it’s a tactic for very early rounds. And i guess you take out the sz91 Cruiser on G1 to get this 1@2 against 2@1 you were talking about.
    While it works in early rounds because UK has to be careful in case of Sealion, i understand this strategy is about over after you have spend your 70IPC on G2 and officially gave up Sealion by not buying a bunch of transports. Then, UK would be silly to build anything in range of your planes. So, even if there is 1 or 2subs in sz106, UK can still build dds there and threaten any sub in sz109 or 119.

    Or is there something i’m not seeing ?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    There are counters to every strategy, naturally.

    This one is about playing things as they come, and chincsing your enemy as many ways as you can.  Sometimes my whole fleet ends up on the west coast of UK for a turn or two, if that means they are going to be -16 by the time i’m done.  And for every dollar they are putting out of UK and CAN, they aren’t putting into SAF.

    Sometimes it works, and works well, other times, you lose 4 of your 5 subs in the opening round.

    Play it by ear, and BUILD a few subs.

    Keep this in mind.

    A: UK loses -5 a turn if you have a sub on the board outside of the baltic, sz100, or caspian sea
    B: Russia loses -5 a turn if you keep a sub in Sz125
    😄 If you have just 3 subs on the board, and they are in positions to interdict - wherever reasonable, that’s -9

    So just keeping 1 sub in Sz125 is -10 for the allies.

    Everything else is gravy, and after 2 turns of interdiction, the sub has paid for itself.

    Most games are only 10 to 15 turns… so  if Get a sub or two south of brazil, or east coast of africa / egypt  for turns past G2 to 5…  You’re mint.

    Build the subs, and as a decent player, you will find that they pay for themselves, once you have built them.  TRY IT.  1 a turn…


  • '10

    I will admit:i never tried sending subs around Africa to suck allies IPC.

    Ok, at least i know now what you’re talking about exactly when you mention this subs strat (i was wondering because you mentioned that strat in other threads a few times). Thanks for taking the time to develop it so i can understand.

    That’s very interesting anyway for when you don’t do Sealion.



  • I have seen it work quite well the other way too.  If Italy makes an early grab at Africa, just a few subs here and there can really sap those ipcs.  Same goes for the Middle East money if the Axis push with ground forces…

    Considering a sub can regain its cost in 3 rounds of convoy raiding, the earlier you purchase them the earlier they can get on station.

    Not to meld threads, but I think it is this danger from subs that promotes dd builds, its one of the reasons I like to have 1-2 dd’s per fleet!



  • hmm.  it appears there are some nice convoy zones down in Africa !  never gave it much thought.  thanks everyone.

    SZ 82  - 2 IPCs 
    SZ 70  another 2 IPCs 
    SZ 71  another 2 IPCs
    SZ 72 another 2 IPCs
    SZ 80  another 2 IPCs (when Persia is UK controled)
    SZ 98 3 IPCs  (i usually take trans jordan with on I1 if my transport survives)

    thats  13 IPCs from Africa SZ119 109 and 106 are worth another 6 IPCs  could be an 18 IPC hit per turn. Makes SBR UK London kinda pointless if I get subs down south.  Also it could draw the UK navy away from the Mediterranean. Course getting them all would be hard as hell and expensive.  but I may try to get as many convoys with the Axis as possible moving forward.


  • Customizer

    You know, I’m kind of surprised that Larry didn’t include US Submarines in costing 3 IPCs for convoy raiding.  Historically, the US submarine force did the same thing to Japanese merchant shipping that German U-boats did to Allied shipping in the Atlantic.  In fact, the US submarines were actually successful at it whereas through convoying and ASW improvements, the U-boat threat in the Atlantic was gradually reduced.  US subs were so successful that in 1944 the US Navy had to cut back on submarine production because they already had too many and were running out of targets since they had so crippled the Japanese importing.


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