• @Hobbes:

    Well, now it’s 4 times in a row I’ve seen the Russian 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 sub, 1 ftr buy on GTO. This time there was only the WR attack, Russia didn’t go for Norway or Belo.

    And it’s the 4th time that I respond by crushing West Russia on G1. Afterwards he tries a hopeless KFJ with an India and Sinkiang IC but Japan positions itself and attacks and takes the Sinkiang IC on J2, 3 inf, 1 arm, 5 fighters and 1 bomber against 4 inf and 4 ftrs. Rest of the game, wrap up Russia.

    MrMalachiCrunch, I dislike playing by forum. Prefer the adrenaline of live play :)

    The Sinkiang IC is good IF R1 goes well (on W.Russia and on Ukraine), giving the Russians some buffer (and without taking Ukraine the Russians in W.Russia are indeed dead meat…

    If Allies do both US IC and UK IC (i tried that in my last 3 games and i happened to win all 3 of them, admitted 1 was by awesome dice for me, and the other 2 i also had decent dice).

    If you do it, Russia should buy 1 more fighter (or a bomber) and a tank.
    about 3 or 4 Russian INF need to go to Sinkiang right away, fighters need to land within attacking reach of China (not so hard on this small map), preferably Caucasus for the increased defence against amphibious attacks. Siberian Russians move to Buryata, UK must take out the japanese TRP (i prefer sacrificing the indian cruiser for this), AC flees, fighters land in India (here i prefer to retreat from Egypt, inf to Italian East Africa, egypt tank to persia, within reach of Egypt and FIC. Both fighters can still attack Egypt in a next turn). US FIG from Hawai to Australia (next turn land in India).
    Optional: moving the UK figs to W.Africa gives more options in keeping an eye on Egypt.

    My point is: both UK and US IC should be secured for now. With the initial help of Russia (Russian tanks in Kazakh can move into India in 1 turn or attack China if needed.

    I let US follow up with buying tank/fig for Sink. and bomber(s) in USA which can reach Sinkiang in 2 turns via Congo or Australia or Yakut (and if Yakut is safe, they can even do combat in their 2nd turn already)

    Got abit carried away there, sorry :)

    Edit: in one of those games Japan had built also 2 IC’s, but he 1-2-3 advantage of the Allies (US-Russia-UK) turned out deadly and they lost 1 IC pretty fast , due to a small mistake.
    Not saying this is all without risk, but this strat has been kind on me.

    But if you do it, do it turn 1.

  • '12

    Question, why do you have forces in Egy?  Is Germany building additional fleet and staying put in S14?  I can’t see any other reason Germany does not hit Egy with 2 Inf, 2 Tanks and a fighter.  Moreover, I don’t see that as a good reason/strategy.

    Fair enough Hobbes.  I find it hard to put aside interruption free time in large enough blocks.  I try to run the numbers for Germany for their Atlantic wall defense while the girlfriend talks about her day at work…… How long do your typical games go on various websites?  The 5 minute timer sounds a bit harsh but it’s fair in a bi-lateral sense I guess.


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    Question, why do you have forces in Egy?  Is Germany building additional fleet and staying put in S14?  I can’t see any other reason Germany does not hit Egy with 2 Inf, 2 Tanks and a fighter.  Moreover, I don’t see that as a good reason/strategy.

    mm, good question. basically because germany didnot attack me,

    The first game they went to take Gibraltar (so no allied planes could land there and protect their fleet, even though, if the german fleet would be out of range if they went to Egypt… i kinda talked them into that, i must admit, haha).
    The other 2 times they bought extra med fleet, so they decided to stay in the same zone, sending some land units to Libia.

    Indeed, if they take out Egypt (also not without risk for them) there won’t be any more retreating for me :)
    Maybe next game they will do that. Until now they didn’t have much succes in africa, i think they might change strategy there. they should.
    If so that is a job for… USA-man!
    My opponents are good players though, but never really focused on Africa.

  • '12

    Hmmm. with a solid set of german attacks, Sz2, Sz15, Sz13, Ukraine and Egy I suspect things would be different.  I cannot justify not putting to work a fleet that then add to and africa units basking in the sun rather than fighting.  I want every one of my pieces doing something, preferably attacking or moving to attack.  I think if Germany is heating up the russian front, not diverting money by fleet purchased and attacking, well…I don’t like german fleet builds so I am biased I guess.


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    Fair enough Hobbes.  I find it hard to put aside interruption free time in large enough blocks.  I try to run the numbers for Germany for their Atlantic wall defense while the girlfriend talks about her day at work…… How long do your typical games go on various websites?  The 5 minute timer sounds a bit harsh but it’s fair in a bi-lateral sense I guess.

    Usually around 2 hours


  • Re:  Original Post:

    If Japan skips hitting the Hawaiian Islands fleet, US has a lot of potential attacks on the coast; at the very least, US can use that fighter early in Asia or Europe.

    Re:  KJF:

    There are slow and fast variations of KJF - fast and slow, but neither is particularly effective if the Axis player responds appropriately.

    The slow variation goes something like this - push Japan off the Asian coast with Russia, while US kills the Pacific fleet.  UK supports Russia in Europe.

    The fast variation goes something like this - Sinkiang IC / India IC, then UK ground from India plus UK air, Russian ground, and US fleet all push in on Japan.

    In both variations, what the Allies are planning is pretty clear; the Allies have to move around to set up their KJF plan.  That movement always weakens the Russian-German front, and is sometimes not too effective, as Japan has a lot of flexibility that it can use to punish the Allies.

    SLOW:

    With the slow variation, Japan can use fighters and subs to stall out the US fleet in the Pacific while maintaining the ability to trade coastal territories.  Transports can dump Japanese infantry anywhere along the coast, making it very hard for the Allies to fortify any single territory.

    The Russians run into a major problem in that Russian infantry need to march from Russia-Novosibirsk-China-Sinkiang-coast; a five turn delay.  (Much more favorable is Caucasus-Ukraine or Russia-West Russia-Eastern Front with a one or two turn delay).  How bad is that, really?  It’s like four entire turns worth of production lost just because those infantry aren’t contributing much while they’re marching to the coast.

    In contrast, Japan’s logistics are much EASIER, as the Allies march right into their mouths.  Japan-coast,  a single turn.

    Then add in the fact that it’s very difficult for the Allies to redirect their attacks, while Japan has no such difficulties.  Suppose the Allies decide to push in at Buryatia in the north.  Then Japan could steal a march and push in on India to the south.  After all, Japan can afford to lose the Pacific Coast if it means Japan and Germany combined can smash Caucasus and Russia in the meantime.

    Russia can compensate by building expensive tanks and fighters for better response time, but when considering that they also need to fend the Germans off, it becomes a very nasty battle.

    FAST:

    Japan’s first friend against a fast industrial complex-supported KJF is the dice.  A few bad dice rolls on the part of the Allies can mean the Allies got smoked right away.  Particularly, if UK attacks French Indochina and fails, and the German-UK battle in Anglo-Egypt (both the initial German attack and the UK counter).  But let’s say the dice are not too bad, and that the Sinkiang/IC plan goes off.

    Japan’s second friend is that the typical IC plan calls for a UK IC on India and a US IC on Sinkiang.  Rather than two points of attack AGAINST Japan, those ICs become targets FOR Japan, with the added bonus that trying to fortify both severely weakens Moscow.  The Allies then need to protect three targets; Moscow, India, and Sinkiang.  Germany presses towards Moscow while Japan builds up at French Indochina.  If the Allies continue to fortify India and Sinkiang heavily, Moscow will be in danger.  If the Allies retreat from India or Sinkiang, the Japanese move in and have a ready-built industrial complex ready to use on their next round.  That wouldn’t be so bad if Japan could be counterattacked, but Japan has a lot of room for allowing the Allies to advance.  It doesn’t matter if Japan loses the entire Pacific coast if Moscow falls while Japan keeps its air force and a strong grip on Tokyo.

    All this isn’t to say that KJF is awful, or even “incorrect”.    But I definitely consider KJF to be an uphill battle.  I consider KGF to offer the Allies far better flexibility and concentration of force.

    If the Axis mess up, or have super awful rolls, then sure, KJF.  But otherwise I would stick with KGF.

  • '12

    2 hours versus 1-2 weeks.  Yeah, I can see the allure of that.  I don’t think I would fair well in those time constraints!


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    2 hours versus 1-2 weeks.  Yeah, I can see the allure of that.  I don’t think I would fair well in those time constraints!

    2 hours, game ending around round 8. But I’ve had some very tough games lasting up to 5 hours…

  • '12

    It’s hard for me to stay that focused for long periods of time.  Even when I write software, its usually in spurts of an hour or less.  Face to face games also seem to take many hours and few get out past round 8.  Maybe the rye has something to do with that, my secret weapon!

    I think I might take the tripleA plunge.  I’ve used it to review your save files.  I think a friend and I might both learn the UI while playing each other before inflicting our lack of familiarity with it on the regulars there.


  • @MrMalachiCrunch:

    I think I might take the tripleA plunge.  I’ve used it to review your save files.  I think a friend and I might both learn the UI while playing each other before inflicting our lack of familiarity with it on the regulars there.

    October 21st I finish my homework and I will find you there!


  • @Bunnies:

    Re:  KJF:

    There are slow and fast variations of KJF - fast and slow, but neither is particularly effective if the Axis player responds appropriately.

    The slow variation goes something like this - push Japan off the Asian coast with Russia, while US kills the Pacific fleet.  UK supports Russia in Europe.

    The fast variation goes something like this - Sinkiang IC / India IC, then UK ground from India plus UK air, Russian ground, and US fleet all push in on Japan.

    In both variations, what the Allies are planning is pretty clear; the Allies have to move around to set up their KJF plan.  That movement always weakens the Russian-German front, and is sometimes not too effective, as Japan has a lot of flexibility that it can use to punish the Allies.

    I agree that KJF is not the superior strategy - I just find it more fun and necessary for the game to keep my interest for it to have playable alternatives to the traditional KGF strategy.

    Regarding the dice being a friend of the axis I am not sure I totally agree here. Risky early round battles goes for both players.
    USSR has the WR UKR/Belo/Norway
    Germany typically has The Egypt attack, SZ2 and even the med cruiser can give problems.
    Uk has the Egypt counter or FIC/Borneo.
    Japan can definately struggle with both taking out a bury stack, taking China, sz52 and some UK pacific leftovers.

    I think the best way to play the game is to keep the strategic options open, in order to exploit early game weaknesses.
    For instance a US pacific campaign is a better option if Japan loses a capital ship R1. If Germany fails in sz2 the KGF scenario is of to a good start so allies might as well expliot it etc.
    Some of the games Hobbes refers to, it seems like his opponent made up his mind about the strategy before the game, and sticked to it regardless of the outcome fo the battles, which I think was a huge mistake (and also you can’t expect USSR both to aid allies in a KJF and take out the German med fleet).

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