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Setup on ILs eastern front map


  • '10

    OK IL, can the setup oil tokens be placed anywhere?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yea at start anywhere.

    Then they are placed at oil centers and need to be moved to where you want to attack.

    On the first turn only the German attacks get a double action. Each of these combat phases still requires a token (2)

    The German player needs to keep pushing to get to a point where the economics are balanced or close.  If they face defeat they must then play for survival.


  • '10

    OK IL, thanks for all the info. Start first test game 08/04/11.


  • '10

    Started first game today but spent a lot of time in discussion before the game and during the first round. Actually we ony finished the German turn. So many mistakes we decided to restart at another time. Photo is after Germany finished its turn.

    IMAG0102.JPG


  • '10

    Now my questions for IL. When does Finland activate? First round or later? Why do you have the arrows (flags) printed in Bavaria and Volzhhsky? And why are there two IPC value circles printed in Bavaria? Did you intend fighter bombers to be 3/3/4/11 or 3/2/6/8 units? I cannot see any way that Germany can sustain Barbarossa with the amount of oil allocated. If Russia does not place their oil tokens in the front lines during setup then it becomes a real longshot for Germany to capture any on round one. Russia may decide to forego any attacks during round one and defend only. That way they do not need to place any oil in the front lines. During this test game Russia placed all its oil in the front lines and that allowed Germany to capture much of it.

    IMAG0094.JPG


  • '10

    Is anyone else out there trying out this game at present. If there is I would be interested in swaping notes and ideas.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Now my questions for IL. When does Finland activate? First round or later?

    yes 1st round.

    Why do you have the arrows (flags) printed in Bavaria and Volzhhsky? And why are there two IPC value circles printed in Bavaria?

    This is off map income and cannot be taken away. The numbers add up to the starting values in IPC.

    Did you intend fighter bombers to be 3/3/4/11 or 3/2/6/8 units?

    Go by whats printed on the map.

    I cannot see any way that Germany can sustain Barbarossa with the amount of oil allocated. If Russia does not place their oil tokens in the front lines during setup then it becomes a real longshot for Germany to capture any on round one. Russia may decide to forego any attacks during round one and defend only. That way they do not need to place any oil in the front lines. During this test game Russia placed all its oil in the front lines and that allowed Germany to capture much of it.

    The trick is to not spend them all on turn one and rebuild the oil ( at rate of two per turn). The German player must select his attacks and not waste the oil chits. Also, you may consider the armor rules:

    **Armor Exploitation: any land unit that still has one movement point left over can make one additional movement or attack. This may only involve retreating a territory to avoid a deadly counterattack, or it may involve a larger plan of surrounding the enemy by encirclement.

    Encirclement of the enemy has the following effects: All units attacking cause two hits for each normal hit rolled.**

    This is very important for the German player, this can get you the oil tokens you need. If you cant reach any Soviet oil tokens, this means he wont be attacking you. Wherever you see him piling up these tokens, he is preparing for a counter attack.


  • '10

    An additional rule question for IL. On page 2 of your rules you state that each oil center printed on the map gives a player one free oil token per turn. Also you state that if one decides to develop more tokens for the next turn that one can bulid more tokens up to the printed value of the territory. What territory? The oil center territory? Or the territory where the combat units are located? If you BUILD these tokens do you pay IPCs for them?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    An additional rule question for IL. On page 2 of your rules you state that each oil center printed on the map gives a player one free oil token per turn. Also you state that if one decides to develop more tokens for the next turn that one can build more tokens up to the printed value of the territory. What territory? The oil center territory? Or the territory where the combat units are located? If you BUILD these tokens do you pay IPCs for them?

    yes you must build oil tokens only at oil centers, which incidentally also give you a free token. The cost schedule for tokens changes depending on period of the war ( so consult the chart). Built tokens can be placed in quantities not exceeding the IPC value of the area. This is why you must always spend money for oil because you cant get behind.

    So you can see how important it is to not lose the key oil producing centers, or you are stuck with tokens you already got and cant make more.


  • '10

    @Imperious:

    An additional rule question for IL. On page 2 of your rules you state that each oil center printed on the map gives a player one free oil token per turn. Also you state that if one decides to develop more tokens for the next turn that one can build more tokens up to the printed value of the territory. What territory? The oil center territory? Or the territory where the combat units are located? If you BUILD these tokens do you pay IPCs for them?

    yes you must build oil tokens only at oil centers, which incidentally also give you a free token. The cost schedule for tokens changes depending on period of the war ( so consult the chart). Built tokens can be placed in quantities not exceeding the IPC value of the area. This is why you must always spend money for oil because you cant get behind.

    So you can see how important it is to not lose the key oil producing centers, or you are stuck with tokens you already got and cant make more.

    OK, thanks for the info. This changes my outlook on this oil issue. I had thought that the chart on page 2 was the oil cost of attacking at different times of the year.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I had thought that the chart on page 2 was the oil cost of attacking at different times of the year.

    Well it sort of is. The chart is the cost of buying oil tokens in THOSE TURNS. Stock up before the weather gets bad because in winter oil is more hard to come by.


  • '10

    Hey IL, played tested game yesterday. Oil dispersion rules seemed to be working ok for the Germans. Soviets did not seem to need much oil. Tried injecting bridge and partisan rules. Bridge rules did not work out. Soviets got one free partisan (1/1/1/0 unit) per turn to be placed in any original Soviet territory behind German lines. Mainly just to agitate Germans. But it will cost one oil token for Germans to attack the partisan. We did seven rounds. A funny thing happened when I went to buy my Soviet units for round seven. I had saved IPCs and had 61 to spend so I bought 10 tanks. Then I proceeded to count out my five free heavy tanks. The German player got all excited and said no-no-no you cant do that. The rule states that you get one free tank for each two you purchase. I thought that was really funny. So I took five medium tanks. I had left Stalingrad as an open city on turn six and the Germans moved in. Then I surrounded them on turn seven with mostly tanks. Thats when we called the game.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Tankograd- you get 1 free tank for every 2 you buy this turn

    This does not apply to heavy tanks, just regular tanks and yes its 1 free for every 2 you buy.

    So it looks like the Germans got crushed at Stalingrad again?

    In reality the heavy tank thing should be 1 built each turn max, like waffen SS panzers so feel free to tweek and adjust.


  • '10

    @Imperious:

    Tankograd- you get 1 free tank for every 2 you buy this turn

    This does not apply to heavy tanks, just regular tanks and yes its 1 free for every 2 you buy.

    So it looks like the Germans got crushed at Stalingrad again?

    In reality the heavy tank thing should be 1 built each turn max, like waffen SS panzers so feel free to tweek and adjust.

    OK, I will pass that info on to my friend monday when we play our next game. Thats what my friend said about Stalingrad. I think I will try the Germans next time. Still more time after turn 7. I will attempt to bring up more infantry than he did.


  • '10

    OK, we did another test game today. First, we found out that the Russian turn 7 (tankograd) can be a game breaker if the Russian player saves some IPCs each of the first six turns and then spends all his accumalated income on tanks for turn 7. Also the Russian player did not place any of his starting oil tokens in the front lines thereby using a delaying strategy with no attacking. So the Germans had little chance to capture oil. On the first round with the Russian units defending at -1 the Germans still lost a number of their setup units. So here is what I recommend and we will test these ideas in several weeks to see if they are feesable. First of all we setup a system where we used trucks to move all oil tokens and infantry after the first round. Next we should tweak tankograd by giving the Russians one free tank for every four purchased. Next the starting oil tokens should be part of the required setup like the eight tokens for the Russians should be placed in the four victory cities. Two in each. Next because it takes the Germans so long to bring new units to the front lines they should be able to place new units in captured factories and in captured territories with the red circle. This could represent the use of railroads to bing in units. Next all Russian units should defend at 1 on the first round.  And finally the Germans should be able to add to their income with the value of the captured red circles.This will give them a little extra income through the first six rounds. The downside to the truck idea is it requires a plastic sculpt to represent them which not very many will have until the FMG units come out.


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    maybe use trucks from Battle of bulge game, and maybe paint uk and us burgandy for Russia? if its enough trucks for now?


  • '10

    @SS:

    maybe use trucks from Battle of bulge game, and maybe paint uk and us burgandy for Russia? if its enough trucks for now?

    Thats exactly what I did to get by until FMG units are delivered. Except I just let Russia use the green trucks. Thats where a good portion of their trucks came from historicaly. (lend lease)


  • 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer

    see the map is 50 by 40 inches , is the 50 inches measure left to right for the long way?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    OK, we did another test game today. First, we found out that the Russian turn 7 (tankograd) can be a game breaker if the Russian player saves some IPCs each of the first six turns and then spends all his accumalated income on tanks for turn 7. Also the Russian player did not place any of his starting oil tokens in the front lines thereby using a delaying strategy with no attacking. So the Germans had little chance to capture oil. On the first round with the Russian units defending at -1 the Germans still lost a number of their setup units. So here is what I recommend and we will test these ideas in several weeks to see if they are feesable. First of all we setup a system where we used trucks to move all oil tokens and infantry after the first round. Next we should tweak tankograd by giving the Russians one free tank for every four purchased. Next the starting oil tokens should be part of the required setup like the eight tokens for the Russians should be placed in the four victory cities. Two in each. Next because it takes the Germans so long to bring new units to the front lines they should be able to place new units in captured factories and in captured territories with the red circle. This could represent the use of railroads to bing in units. Next all Russian units should defend at 1 on the first round.  And finally the Germans should be able to add to their income with the value of the captured red circles.This will give them a little extra income through the first six rounds. The downside to the truck idea is it requires a plastic sculpt to represent them which not very many will have until the FMG units come out.

    Ok try that. You might make the cost of oil tokens for Soviet attacks to go up until dec 41, since they were unprepared for the onslaught.


  • '10

    @SS:

    see the map is 50 by 40 inches , is the 50 inches measure left to right for the long way?

    The map is 4ft.x5ft. But it can be changed to different sizes before printing.


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