German opening.


  • '11

    What is the general consensus for German round 1 buys & normal attacks, besides hitting France? I’ve been combing through past threads and it seems like a lot of folks go for an AC & tranport purchases, setting up for more transport purchases in future rounds & leading to Operation Sea Lion. However, some folks have stated purchse of land units or a Major IC for Romania. I am curious what most players lean to in the opener? Thank you.



  • You see two major threads because you need to decide prior to the war if you plan on attacking Russia straight away or want to wait until round 4.  If you wait until round 4 or later then you can conduct a Sealion attack in the interim.  If you head straight for Russia then you cannot.  So you need to decide prior to war who you want to concentrate on.


  • '11

    Excellent point, thank you. I have been thinking about which route I would prefer, but still wanted to see what the majority of players do. It does seem that Sea Lion is considered high for most German players.



  • For sealion, the overall blue print is the same. However, some do the small details differently than others. Haven’t seen much about barbarossa except, buying a factory early close to the eastern front is widely excepted. I would really like to see some details in this thread from experienced players, in order to help my own strategies.


  • '11

    Agreed. Seeing a detailed plan of attack for Barbarossa would be very helpful. If the route of setting up an IC in Romania is a typical move, how many folks buy a Major right off the bat? Or buy a Minor for 1st turn, allowing for other purchases and then on turn 2, upgrading to a Major with the extra money from taken from France.



  • I don’t like the G1 naval buys.  I like 1 SUB, 4 INF, 3 ART and focus on Barbarossa.  Even successful Sea Lion attacks feel like a failure since Russia is then unstoppable.  Only way I Sea Lion early is if UK player makes horrendous buys on their first turn, like units in South Africa and Transports at UK.  I’ll always keep my eye on a mid game Sea Lion if the UK player is inattentive.  Almost never Sea Lion late because of the American presence.



  • I’ll try to be as detailed as possible with Barbarossa, but at a certain point it becomes impossible due to facts changing rapidly on the front. As always, seemingly minor changes/dice/opponent choices can have long term consequences. I’ll try to outline the best way to assault Russia using an overarching strategy, from the German perspective. I’ll leave Japan and Italy out of the equation from a detail/mechanic perspective, only mentioning what effect they should be/could be having on Germany’s choices.

    1. First purchase is a Carrier and 2 Transports. For me, this has next to nothing to do with Sealion, and everything to do with versatility/flexibility/ability to seize and hold the initiative. This purchase forces Britain to spend all IPCs in London, getting them off to a slower start in Africa vs. Italy. A few pieces in Africa can mean everything. Secondly, the Carrier gives you an immediate lockdown fleet when combined with your airbase in West Germany. You now have a foundation for a long-term shield against Britain and the US.

    2. Neutral choices: Step into Finland with 2 Infantry, Step into Bulgaria with 2 Infantry, and crush Yugoslavia with 8 Infantry, an Artillery, and 3 Armor. The rest of your mobile forces hit France G1. This sets you up for Greece on G2 quite nicely. It also buys you the max free Infantry you can get on G1… yeah, it’s nice for Italy to have some free Infantry + economy, but I prefer (personally) to have the bulk of the forces go to one major power… on offense a single power is best to have a majority… on defense, multinational is just fine.

    3. Starting on the 1st turn, begin moving units into Norway with the single Transport you have… on G2 land 6 more with the 3 Transports you now have. On G3 land 6 more… you get the idea. Move your Infantry and Artillery only… mobile forces have a different purpose. The Allied player who had to prepare for a potential Sealion is now watching as a heavy dose of Infantry and Artillery begins pooling in Finland.

    4. Purchases on G2, G3, G4 etc. should reflect your purpose - to overwhelm and crush Russia. This isn’t done with pretty, expensive units, but with Infantry, Artillery, Mech Infantry, and Armor… in descending order of amount purchased. Personally, if I have 60 IPcs with Germany, you’ll see 10 Infantry, an Artillery, a Mech Infantry, an Armor, a Fighter, and a Sub. Sometimes the Sub will be an extra Armor, or the Mech an extra Artillery, or vice versa. You get the idea. As the turns move forward, slowly choke back on the Infantry, and add mobile forces through the midgame turns… the front has moved, and you have to maintain the ability to move with it. Still, I’d personally have a hard time ever buying less than 6-8 Infantry in a turn, no matter what.

    5. Begin to defend your coast before the Allied navies claim Gibraltar/North Africa, which they will. I begin placing 2 Infantry a round in Normandy on G3, and I make a commitment that doesn’t stop until I get to 10-12 Infantry. Comined with the threat of the Luftwaffe, it forms a formidable defense and can counter any attack made on Southern France.

    6. So now you have a self-sustaining Kriegsmarine (adding a unit per turn), with an airbase backing it up (and adding a fighter per turn). You’re preparing to defend your coastline in Normandy. This is your Spiked Shield.

    7. Let’s talk about the Armored Fist. You’ve been landing 6 units per turn in Norway on G2 and G3, you landed 2 on G1 and had 6 Infantry in Finland… you’re now looking at forces in the north of 20(!) land units to begin G4… not bad. 14 of these are prepared to assault on G4. Every other land unit not playing defense in Normandy can now be used on the front with Russia. On G4 not only will you have a huge force of Infantry/Artillery preparing to take the Karelia/Vyborg region, you’ll also have plenty of Infantry massed along the Polish/Hungarian/Romanian border, and more importantly, your mechanized forces will be prepared to apply pressure wherever you choose, based on how the Russian player has chosen to array their forces. My favorite is a pincer - the northern forces hit Karelia or Vyborg (or both), and my mobile forces (now numbering approximately 10 Armor and 6 Mech) move with accompanying Infantry/Artillery into the Baltic States. The nail in the coffin is the original 3 Transports… they bring a combo of 6 Infantry/Artillery any place you need - Vyborg, Novgorod, or the Baltic States - any combo you choose, or all to one of them if needed. My guess is that based on the way the Russian player sees you stage on G3, they’ll be in no mood to contest Novgorod… how could they?

    8. Contingency plans - let’s say the Russian player sells out completely to save Novgorod… well, now your mobile forces (16 units and counting!) make a mess of the Ukraine area. With the pressure of Infantry, Artillery, Mobile forces, and a large Luftwaffe, Russia is forced to choose to lose one IC or the other. Because the Ukraine opens up Stalingrad and the Caucasus region, a smart Russian player will choose the lesser of the two evils and will heavily defend the South and let the North go.

    I didn’t mention Japan and Italy yet… By G4 Japan may have eaten up a large portion of China, in which case Russia is looking at war on two fronts. Bad news. If the US is going all out Pacific, all the better for Germany. The strategy I just laid out works well against determined Allied Atlantic play… imagine if the Allied presence is minimal? Less Kriegsmarine, more Luftwaffe or land units. A win-win situation. A quicker fall of Russia. As for Italy, if Britain attacked the Italian fleet (usually a given), it is time to immediately focus on being Germany’s good friend and maintaining a needling threat on the African coast, but mostly buying land units to send both East and West… West to take over the defense of Normandy over time, and East to open a hole or two for what will become by G6 an absolutely monstrous German mobile force of 12-14 Armor and 8-10 Mech Infantry. As I said, an Armored Fist.

    9. When your German economy gets to 55-60, do yourself a favor and make a commitment to 10 Infantry a round in the later stages (G7 and later). Otherwise, you’ll find yourself in a state of Infantry exhaustion. When that happens, you begin to lose the initiative. A bad idea. Keep the boots marching to the front.

    10. A wrinkle or two - think about spending the money on a Minor IC in Greece, followed by an airbase. With this 27 IPC investment, you can purchase a Transport + a Destroyer or Cruiser in the Black Sea (SZ100). From here, you can assault Ukraine, Rostov, and most importantly the 7 IPC Caucasus (2 IPCs + 5 IPC NO). You also gain the ability to assist Italy in the Mediterranean if needed - naval purchases in SZ97 can use Italy’s Naval Base. Coupled with Italy’s Airbase in Southern Italy, you can now maintain a light Italian presence in the Med if the Allies have been aggressive. An Italian (as well as German) Sub or Destroyer per round, coupled with air power can hold the Allies at bay for a good deal of time. If Allied air power threatens your fleet in the Black Sea, think about another airbase in Romania. 6 aircraft is a pretty good deterrent to keep your transport alive. The infrastructure detailed in this paragraph gives you a small but effective (and flexible/versatile) presence in Southern Russia, while the heavy and sustained Northern focus keeps Russia falling backward with sheer power and brutality.

    Try this stuff and let me know how it goes!



  • Good report soldier, I nominate for article status.



  • Thank you Young Grasshopper! I get a chance to make it happen again this coming Friday when my good friend (Infrastructure from this site) comes up for the weekend. My turn as the Axis, and I can’t wait. He’s trying to figure out how to stop this strategy… he hasn’t been able to yet, and he’s a more than capable player… he’s kicking the snot out of me right now in an online game as the Axis… he plays a mean Japan and a shrewd economic game.



  • @Antholin:

    Agreed. Seeing a detailed plan of attack for Barbarossa would be very helpful. If the route of setting up an IC in Romania is a typical move, how many folks buy a Major right off the bat? Or buy a Minor for 1st turn, allowing for other purchases and then on turn 2, upgrading to a Major with the extra money from taken from France.

    you won´t need any ICs built. just build troops which fulfill better their duty than an IC could do.

    most people go for sea-lion which makes sense in a way, but i prefer a direct approach into russia. what stalingradski proposed is a good idea. well, but, you can go fast and directly into it by buying mech and tank only, except first round with artillery only.

    the rest is not difficult to do, but to gather enough troops you should ignore yugoslavia, take the neutrals, win france, sink british fleet. in subsequent turns you can conquer rest of france (normandy or normandy and s.france) and greece helping italy. attack russia on turn 2, i propose the following course:
    g2 east poland, g3 wait there gathering reinforcements, g4 belarus, g5 bryansk, g6 moscow.

    this may seem a bit too simplicistic, but if you ignore the 1-IPC-territories except the mentioned ones you can get easily to moscow. the last battle is mostly 50/50 won or lost. leningrad falls to germany anyway this way. you won´t need to plan it really, g5 and it is done mostly. if russia holds it, better for you, because then you will win moscow definitely!

    if you wish a more detailed outline, then don´t hesitate to ask me or just browse my already written posts in the europe1940-area.

    greetings

    rock`n roll



  • @Stalingradski:

    Thank you Young Grasshopper! I get a chance to make it happen again this coming Friday when my good friend (Infrastructure from this site) comes up for the weekend. My turn as the Axis, and I can’t wait. He’s trying to figure out how to stop this strategy… he hasn’t been able to yet, and he’s a more than capable player… he’s kicking the snot out of me right now in an online game as the Axis… he plays a mean Japan and a shrewd economic game.

    I’m going to print this page and put it in my playbook.



  • Fantastic post.



  • Please tell me the results when you try it! Also, poke holes in it, and find weak points for Germany.

    My favorite part about this strategy is the actual appearance of it… it is aesthetically quite nice! I mean really… I shiver thinking about it. I could only admit this to other A&A players…

    My wife asked me - what would you do as Russia? (I love it that she asks me questions like that)… and I don’t know… try to maintain your own Russian mobile force to respond quickly on defense/provide a deterrent to Germany stepping forward is my best answer, and have the other Allies apply as much pressure as humanly possible to the Atlantic coastline and Med underbelly. Try to make the Kriegsmarine commit to battle… don’t let it just sit there and play defense. One thing that won’t work is a continuous dropping of Allied troops in Africa - get a few into action, but the rest of the US and British troops have to land in Europe as soon as possible to save Russia, in my opinion. That’s what people want to do anyhow, in any game, but in the case of an overwhelming German land force, it seems the only solution.

    Also, let me know if you find any wrinkles you try to make it more effective-



  • You won´t need any ICs built. just build troops which fulfill better their duty than an IC could do.

    It’s possible to do a successful assault on Moscow without any additional ICs, but building one or two will make the task easier.  See below.

    most people go for sea-lion which makes sense in a way, but i prefer a direct approach into russia. what stalingradski proposed is a good idea. well, but, you can go fast and directly into it by buying mech and tank only, except first round with artillery only.

    I’m not a fan of Sea Lion - I think I prefer the G2 Barbarrossa.  Turn one I like SUB, 4 INF, 3 ART.  From turn 2 onward I focus on additional mechanized infantry and tanks (3-1 ratio) and a sub every round.

    the rest is not difficult to do, but to gather enough troops you should ignore yugoslavia, take the neutrals, win france, sink british fleet. in subsequent turns you can conquer rest of france (normandy or normandy and s.france) and greece helping italy.

    Don’t ignore Yugoslavia - attack it with your infantry and artillery from Southern Germany along with a single infantry from Romania, and retreat them all after one round of combat to Romania.  This sets you up nicely for attacking Bessarabia on G3 and taking Ukraine on G4 (need that IC, more later).  Don’t kill the entire British fleet, don’t go for the BB/CA in the English channel  or the DD/TRN, it’s just not worth losing any planes over – keeping our Luftwaffe in tact early is more important than a BB…  Also, spread out your subs, hit that CA off Gibralter and the DD/TRN at Canada.  Survivng subs head south to Africa in subsequent rounds to harass convoys.  Bait the British into building more fleet and do a concentrated attack with ALL your air force on G2 or G3.  Let Italy finish off Yugoslavia and take Greece and Southern France.  This sets Italy at a decent IPC level for later when your focus changes to Africa.  Make sure Germany sends two fighters to Southern Italy on round one to punish the British for a Taranto raid.  Keep Italy focused in Europe in round one and concentrate their fleet at Taranto until round two (transports can ferry to Greece from Italy SZ).  Buld Navy with Italy, very importaqnt, keep UK worried about the Italian fleet and not worried about taking Norway or Normandy.  The British fleet will have to decide….attack the German fleet, attack the Italian fleet, or chase down German subs.  Stretch the British fleet and wait for easy pickins.  If they max transports, you attack with your entire air force with Germany or their entire Navy with Italy.

    attack russia on turn 2, i propose the following course. g2 east poland, g3 wait there gathering reinforcements, g4 belarus, g5 bryansk, g6 moscow.

    I recommend a different route.  G2- Eastern Poland/Bessarabia, G3 Western Ukraine/Ukraine, G4 Bryansk/Rostov, G5 Volgograd (Stalingrad).  You can build minor ICs in Western Ukraine and/or Rostov, coupled with minors already in Ukraine and Volgograd, you now have four minor ICs within two zones of Moscow feeding units directly into the frontlines.  You should also divert units north if Leningrad was abandoned and capture that.  Now you just play with the odds calculator each round and wait until your victory chance in Russia is high, then attack.  Simple and very effective. To add additional potency, strategic bomb Russia’s ICs to limit their production.



  • Stalingrad good post we think alike. For italy I like to try and get to Iraq. Take the infantry there and add a minor IC. Take the No’s for middle east and march on Stalingrad from the south. Have Germany try and push South early with your transports head north to reinforce Finland. When the time is right push on Leningrad. Russia no longer has enough units to defend. Lights out. I agree with you if USA goes all out in the Pacific I can usually take down London and over time Italy and Germany will overwhelm Russia.



    • Buy mobile ground units (I prefer mechs only)

    • Take France and Normandy with all available ground and enough aircraft to ensure as little tank losses as possible (and no airplane losses).

    • Use remaining airforce, navy and subs to sink as much of the fleet around the British Isles as possible (use subs against the non-destroyer stacks when possible)

    • Move infantry and artillary from southern germany and at least one of the Romanian infantry into Yugo and retreat after first round of combat to Romania

    • Land 2 of the France attack planes in Italy to protect italian fleet.

    • Take Finland and Bulgaria.

    This strategy neutralizes the immediate UK threat while setting you up for a G2 Barbarossa. Also, even without the additional German navy/transports, the UK player will need to spend some of their income to stop Sealion – the last time I used this strategy, the UK player saw my Barbarossa tell, went full into Africa on UK1, trusting on a lone surviving cruiser to stop Sealion. On I1, I flew my Italian airforce up and sunk the crusier, and I was able to take London G2 with a single loaded transport, battleship support and the remaining German airforce.



  • I have a question for all gamers regarding strategic bombing under Alpha 2. Germany attacks Russia from East Poland with 4 SBM’s supported by 2 fighter escorts. Russia puts two fighter interceptors. The rules state if the attacker(germany) get a hit with either its fighters or bombers with a (1) the interceptor is removed immediately. Thus, if Germany with 2 fighter escorts and 4 SBM’s scores 2 hits does that mean the escorts do not get to shoot back at (2). Or, if the german rolls snake eyes and hits both interceptors does this mean they are removed immediately before they can shoot at the german bombers?

    Please help



  • Escorts fire before Interceptors, so the Interceptors would not get to fire, whether they hit or not.

    Edit:

    I’m sorry, I was not correct.

    If the escorts get hits, those hits do not get returned.  Escort casualties get removed immediately.

    The Interceptors and Bombers fire simultaneously, so any Interceptors left after the Escorts fire will get to fire.  Even if bombers hit, those leftover Interceptors get to fire back.



  • Thank you for that clarification



  • Dear Alsch91: I believe your comments about the Strategic Bombing and escorts and interceptors is incorrect. Alpha 2 Rules state that the interceptors are removed immediately, not the escorts.
    Example: Germany with 3SBM and 6 fighter escorts vs UK with 6 fighters. German escorts fire at interceptors at 1 and achieve 2 hits (luck). Does this mean only 4 interceptors can fire at the bombers or still the 6 and the losses are taken after firing at the bombers? If so, why do the rules state remove the interceptor casualties immediately?



  • I understand your confusion, it’s simply strange wording that’s the issue.

    In your scenario, it means that interceptors are the casualties, not casualties of the interceptors.  Only 4 would get to fire back.
    When I said “escort casualties”, I meant those planes that got hit by escorts - the interceptors.


  • '11

    Thank you all for your posts and strategies for Germany, I can’t wait to implement some of these fantastic moves. I’ve been away for a few days, but have read through all responses and have a much better idea of what can be done in the Global game.



  • You’re welcome!

    If you try the strategy I outlined, please report the results - I think you’ll be happy. From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t matter if your opponent knows exactly what is coming - it is hard to stop.

    Over this past weekend I learned in greater depth that one of the keys in Europe is understanding Italy’s support role - to vigorously protect the underbelly of Europe, help protect Normandy, and punch a few holes on the East Front for Germany… don’t get caught adventuring in any more than a token way in Africa… that was a mistake made by Mussolini, but you don’t have to! Look for the right time to evacuate your more expensive units to Europe - they’ll make the difference against Russia, but just get burned up for next to nothing in a fight for Africa. There’s just as much money to be had for Italy on Russian soil… I’m in a game right now where I pulled out of Africa completely at just the right time (around turn 6), and am still collecting around 25 IPCs per round with Italy (on turn 9) - 8 IPCs of which were once Russian territories. The simple trick is - Italy takes out a territory and Germany reinforces heavily. Repeat. Repeat. It takes a toll on Russia that Germany can’t accomplish alone.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Has anyone considered ignoring the British Atlantic navy?  Instead of buying naval units, just getting more ground units and hitting Russia?

    I am NOT endorsing this idea, I am just CONSIDERING it and THINKING about it.



  • Do you mean clearing out as much British navy as you can in the first couple rounds but not building any new German navy?

    I think it’s absolutely worth consideration, and playtesting.


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