Germanys french revenge! New tactic for trial..

If i am Russia, by Germany 2 i’ve taken FIN with muchos inf, 1 arm, i’ve taken UKR with an arm and 2-3 inf, and i’ve taken EEU with 2 inf and 2 ftrs. Germany is looking to EEU for its dead zone, and given its ipc losses (2 for fin, 3 for EEU and UKR) that’s an arm and inf every turn. Also by G2 there is a UK a/c, 2 trns and 2 US ftrs. Meanwhile the US has either landed troops on FIN from EUS or sac’d a trn to slow the GE advance in Africa.
True, little will slow the Japanese, however Germany with a limited income will eventually starve and be crushed. I imagine it would be by a Dieppe/Normandy invasion by the British with support from the US, with a powerful Russian army that eventually would sit on EEU once it is matching GE for inf.

@adon:

Hi!

Interesting… Would realy take the bait and attack finland with 3 inf +1 arm against 3I+1 arm…?
That battle could be lost or won phyrric style…

didn’t say 3 inf 1 arm - i would prolly attack to win. I assumed you used your BAL trn to move inf/arm out of there first round!

Taking ukraine is a good idea… expect some losses if you go to light there too… 3 inf 1 arm against 2 inf… is risky if your troops miss the first round…

Taking EE with 2 inf 2 fig is risky too against 2 inf… (It can go bad and if it does… would you sacrifice fighters just to take control of it?) anyways… EE will be taken back with say 3 inf and 1 armor…

all true. I was assuming 1 inf - i would attack with more depending on what was left. Might even leave Fin to establish a closer dead zone - let the UK take it.

The New uk fleet should be attacked by med fleet (1bs+1tr+1 maybe a sub) and 5 fighters and 1 bomber… should wipe it all at the cost of tr, (sb), fig…
Leaving the med battleship and new ac and 2 fig and a new tr there!

this is assuming i left your fleet(s) alone, and assuming you suffered few/no losses against my bb.

IPC should go down only by 2-5 depending if finland did fall (EE retaken)… and africa could see some gains too if the british withdrew to india realizing he put all efforts on a new fleet that might sink again…

G Losses turn2 : 1 tr, (sb), 1-2 fig, 1 inf: cost 23-44…
Allied losses: 2 tr, 2 fig, 1-2 inf, ac: 61-64…

these are hopeful figures i think

Collect around 30 but more importantly… 2 full turns have passed…

-The allies have no fleet at all (provided the jap followed/crushed the US pacific fleet through the canal… to ultimately join for uk waters!).

true - 2 full turns - more build up for the US’s.
The allies do have some navy - usually that UK navy is left alone as how are you going to attack EEU w/ no ftrs? Nasty business that. You’ve spread your ftrs thin.
Also the US - how are you going to destroy all of their fleet. My American WCO bb always makes it b/c of blocking maneuvers. Plus their ECO fleet untouched b/c you need everything agains my UK fleet.

-The japanese should have no problems since UK spent all money on a fleet that was sunk again… Russia is still busy with germany…

-The russian tempted by baits didn’t go all forward to berlin afraid of the EE deadzone… and won 6-8 ipc at some losses… and lost east russia to japan… losing 4 ipcs… and 3 for EE retaken, so the real gain is what -1 to 1 ipcs?

Japan - rarely has a problem
Russia - if its me - i may not be afraid of the deadzone - it really depends on what GE has left and what kind of allied fleet i have.

-US and Uk have nothing left except 2 bm (1us, 1uk), 2fig (2brit) some odd infantry and armor… to try to hinder the germ fleet in uk waters…

This setting enables a great turn 3… Russia is alone! UK and US should now pile up inf and fighters for home defence or suicide mission on german uk fleet…
-German 3 should go all inf save a tr for uk fleet… EE will be retaken as many times as needed at minimum loss giving time for japan to eat the russian…

As soon as japan joins fleet in uk it’s game over allies… or a long painful death… while axis has hands free to take brazil, australia, alaska, east russia, india, africa… 2 ac ,2 bsh, 4 fig and lots of tr… is more than uk and us can buy planes for and still defend thier homelands just in case…

The tactic is the common allied tactic in reverse… trade space for time with germany while japans grows and continuously build the largest invasion fleet in uk waters to either go uk, us, canada or karelia… all that in just a turn, make sure to do the shuck-shuck sound with a smile…!

This threat is enough to keep all allies unsecure and busy don’t you agree?

*Just try it if you are used to play with germany as well…, the allies will be confused… most allies would think the ac, tr and fig is for med… but no! it has more daring plans!

its interesting - i’ll reply to the rest this evening if i remember - gotta’ run.

@adon:

This tactic is for playing USSR allowed to attack first…

It’s based on the most common russian first turn:
-attack manchuria

This is not a common USSR first move. It is a common newby-to-fair player mistake! It weakens the USSR defense and puts these weak forces on Japan’s attacking doorstep.
@adon:

-attack finland - move fleet into UK - place 8 inf in karelia.

Germ turn1:
-buy an IC
-save 17 Ipc.

Combat:
-attack Bshp with Bshp, sub and tr. should lose only sub.

Catastrophes happen! I wonder what the UK player might do with his bmr if the German BB is alone in Gib sz?
@adon:

• take 3 free ipc in africa.
  -attack uk fleet (1bsp, 2tr, 1sb) with 1 sub, 1 tr, 4 fig, 1bb: should lose sub and tr.

Non comb:
-retrieve all units in russia to germany save 1 or 2 inf on each occupied country.

Minimum that can be left on EEu is 3 inf since you used trans elsewhere…
@adon:

-Rearange units in italy & france as you like. Leave most inf in germany.
-Place IC in France.

Oh, goody! A gift for the Allies. No need to maneuver to attack SEu.
@adon:

• Collect 33 ipcs (totaling 50 ipc)

The idea is to force the russians to attack and retake EE with his stack of 8 newly purchased inf or so with fig/armors piecemeal only to be broken by troops from germany… The russian will have troubles to reinforce this because reinforcements will be delayed from Karelia to EE for each turn.
EE is thus a dead zone for the russian. It can also give a false security to the russian and he will buy tanks too… good for you!

If USSR takes F/Nor and Ukr with minimal forces, you just gave up 2 IPCs(F/Nor) forever and 3 IPCs(Ukr) for a possible dead zone tobe traded with USSR(though this is standard.) With only 3 inf in EEu you have no fodder to lose to move forward the next turn. I can see cystic_crypt’s point of taking EEU as well.
@adon:

Meanwhile the japanese should do its best to eat russia from the east untill the russian is forced to protect its rear. Japan should also consider making a diversion for invading us/alaska during that time just to force the US to build some kind of pacific fleet…

OH, puleeze! US need not waste its time if the proper build in WUS, move to W Can, move to E Can, and finally trans to UK, F/Nor, WEu or Alg is utilized.

At least you are thinking, but you’ve got another think coming!

Thanks El Jefe - i missed that first bit about Russia attacking Manchuria. This i only employ in a KJF strategy that i havn’t really perfected yet. This is rarely done as the next turn i’m looking down 2 jap BB barrel’s, 5 planes, a bmb and a sh*tload of inf.

Also i agree that my UK bmb is basically there to sac against a surviving Ger bb (unless its within ftr range).

Also i missed that bit about the EEU inf left there - i gotta’ keep these maneuvers in mind. 3 would delay my taking EEU - but gotta’ leave something for the British to do . . . .

I also love that bit about the factory in France. I hoped that no one would say anything - i’d like to play against him and have that ic (and 5 fewer inf/3 fewer armor in Germany).

Also its rare that i make a pac-fleet. An extra ftr or 2 is a nice diversion, and with a 36 ipc income its rare that i’m suffering for an extra 2-4 infantry regardless of the possible E-W connection.

Don’t mean to crap all over your strat adon. I’d be happy to let you play-test it (with some tweaking as you like).

cystic_crypt, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!!
Didn’t mean to let the IC out of the bag.

adon, I know of no download for A&A. I’ve been searching the internet for game demos for the last few days. Found lots of wasted time… lots of sites with fecesy(poopy)games, no page to access and lots of Windows95 OS games(how archaic!)

cystic_crypt, again, I think I’ll leave adon’s long post to you…
except to say…
An IC in WEu need not be taken on UK1 or US1, but H-E-DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS if I’d waste Allied $ in the Pacific if I saw an IC in France!
Dagbast it! I did it again cystic_crypt.

this doesnt make any sense at all

If germany doesnt buy any infantry for 2 turns, the allies walk all over them RUSSIA IN PARTICULAR

after 3 turns, germany would be in such bad shape, it would fall easily

ok, i’m addressing this one turn at a time. And i really don’t have the time to go to indepth, but there are some obvious things that need addressing.
@adon:

Turn 1

The fleet thing:

I don’t know how you see things but the uk is certainly unable to attack the med fleet because of some things:

First: the uk waters (bshp, tr + rs tr and rs sb) is attacked by baltic fleet tr+sb and 1bmb+5 fig…

On the attack you have firepower: 2+15+4 and one fodder, average 3.6 kills… good chance of killing all 4!

Defense: 4+1+1+2 average 1.2 kills… or 1.1 if the g sb did strike home.
This means that only one casuality for the G is very likely… leaving a sb or tr for blocking the uk airforce to hunt med fleet this turn!

Even if the G did only kill 3 the 1 loss only, has 33% chance of still happening… the remaining bsp can miss too in the second round of combat.

The med fleet + atlantic sb should blow the bshp in one turn with 33% of no retaliation… and 66% of making it without losses anyways…

this last line made no sense to me, the rest is more or less on.

Thus good chances are to leave a Bshp, a sb and a tr in non combat moves there.
You should agree then that it’s likely that a tr or sb is still in uk waters and/or the med fleet has 2-3 ships left which can be difficult to deter with 2 fig and bmb…

The IC in france can not be taken by canada tr or us tr because there is 2 inf and 1 fig that was forced to land there…

give me 2 turns. By turn 2 the US can have a BB, 3-4 trns with 6-8 inf ready to storm normandy.

Now the eastern front:

• I have considered your answers and come to the following conclusions:
  I would then go for leaving everything in EEu with an AA from italy or france, leave an inf in caucasus.

I believe the russian shouldn’t be able to attack this force there with success: 9 inf, 8pz, 4 fig, 1bmb and 1 AA against 17+ inf, 3 tks, 2fig.

now you’re making a little more sense. At the same time, if there is not much more inf there, then when i start throwing troops onto Russia from GB and US then Russia feels a little less vulnerable.

In africa the standard moves are done, leaving the 2 inf Seu in lybia (alternative later)

Collect 35 ipcs. (totaling 52 ipcs now.)

i thought you just spent a bunch on pretty boats? No infantry? you are saving this for your 17 odd inf in defense of Germany and France?

Uk has no fleet left except a tr in canada, a lonely sb in suez and a lonely tr in india… Uk shouldn’t be able to hunt med fleet (because of survivor) and/or has a great chance of facing a bsb, a tr and a sb with 2 fig and a bmb…

neat and tidy. not the way i’ve been rolling lately, but ok.

Note: I’ve considered to land an inf in Gibr aAlgeria to prevent the Br fig from joining the hunt… instead of landing in Lybia, Good idea or not?

usually you have to make up your mind what you’re going to do. that trn is handy for dropping stuff in Africa to delay the US retaking it.

Will uk rebuild a fleet that can be trashed again by a Bshp, a tr, maybe a sb and 5 fig and a bmb? Even with 2 fig from Us on a br Ac and a tr this is very risky don’t you think?
Not so much.
You are attacking me with 2 4’s, a 2, and 5 3’s. I’m defending with 2 4’s, a 3, and a 1. Hopefully i kill your boats and take a plane down. Now these planes are unable to participate in any dead zone exchange as well. But i think you are being hopeful overall. I rarely see Germany with this kind of fleet intact. Usually i’ve made meat of the med stuff with some bomber action.

Or will they try to defend asia… slowing the jap? (IMO best option)

Japan goes sov far east and china and every attack fleet possible to pearl harbour: 2 Bshp, 1 sb, 2 fig, a Bmb… This means on average Us fleet sunk in one turn, retaliation is likely one loss only (sb)

Us can try to make it with Pac fleet to Panama but will be caught by the huge Jap fleet… So what’s the option?
-IMO Us should hit back with 2 fig a bmb, a tr, a bshp… This should cause lots of damage…

You’ve just killed the US’s BB and it’s planes in a useless futile attempt to hurt the Jap fleet. This is a pointless maneuver. So what if the japs have this fleet? killing it will not affect the number of troops japan can land on asia, nor will the sting of the BB be so removed as to be worth the loss of important vehicals needed in Europe. No, you can get the BB to safety with a blocking maneuver by the trn which will give you some extra power in the Atlantic.

If Us don’t do that they can build a heavy fleet in EUs intimidating the Jap to strike in the next turn… But this ties up all money and is very risky too if the jap goes berserk aswell…

why would a heavy fleet in EUS intimidate the japs? Do you mean the WUS? And this does not often intimidate japan who can easily throw a couple more wolves into the mix. No, the eastern fleet will only intimidate Germany and relieve the UK.

Or Us can hide fleet in Alaska and build things to help Britain…

this would get killed faster than a mosquito at a nudist colony.

I mean Us fleet going to Atlantic is non-sense don’t you think considering the huge jap fleet in hawaii?

bring it adon. I’ll show you what nonsense is. What can that huge jap fleet possibly do? Menace the coast? “oooohhh look at us, look at us . . . we’re the big scary japanese fleet and we can’t land but look anyway at how scary we are!!”. I keep about 4 inf and a ftr or 2 on the WUS in the event that this happens. If i see a trn i might throw a couple more soldiers there, but that’s it. They get to close, i buy another ftr or so. No biggie - those fighters will find a home in Russia anyway.

Us or Uk taking finland with a tr is non sense too turn 1 and turn 2 or explain me how?

They should be able to land something in Algeria to try to hinder the G but then they lose the tr next trn…

for the first - it’s not impossible - and i’ll do it on US 2 if i have to. Usually however Russia has it (which is important 'cuz Russia needs those extra ipcs more than us/uk does.
For the second - so they lose the trn. They can afford it to dump a couple of inf on the coast and make Germany run around. this costs them ipcs and momentum. I don’t like losing the trn, and i don’t do it every game, but i will do it.

@adon:

Turn 2
The russian is unable to take more than Ukr… shouldn’t risk taking finland aswell… or if he does EEu could be a serious threat… The Karelia mountain of inf should be around 23+ inf there now!

easy.
its ftrs and a couple troops in ukr (depending on what Germany left. If 1 ge inf, then 2 rus infs and 1 ftr - go up from there).
For Fin - great place to dump its armor with the support of 2-3-4 inf - inf it can afford to lose, anyway to take FIN.

G does what it can in africa…
Consider retreating with everything to Germany leaving an inf behind in EEu, maybe retaking Ukr if lightly defended…

Trashing the new Uk fleet with Us fig or not… Losses should be minimal ( 1tr and maybe a fig or 2 fig or so) depending on if Us sacrificed a tr to block med fleet…

hmmmm. . . 2 4’s, a 3 and a 1 should give me about 2 hits in the first round. And it would be nice to take down the luft waffe. Very nice as that’s Germany’s most powerful tool for defense, deadzone exchange etc.

Moving Med fleet to uk waters if not done in combat… Reinforce with a Ac, 2 fig a tr…

yeah, you see, this is why i’m having trouble with Ger’s first turn collection of 50+ ipcs in hand. I’m also wondering why Russia did not kill the AC and TRN with its ftrs or why Britain left it alone. . . .

Collect 32 or so.

If the jap is able to pass through with fleet in Atlantic… joining Uk waters by turn 4… You should agree that Uk waters will remain German and Landing in Europe should be very difficult…

I really don’t see this happening in the second round. It has to take panama and survive the vicious butt-kicking my Atlantic fleet and ftrs and bmb are going to lay on them the moment they look at jamaica.

-Eating Russia from east has begun for the jap… because the russia stockpiled everything in Karelia as common tactic recommends…

it’s begun, but it will slow, because with Germany’s pitiful army, Russia is sending about 2-3 troops a turn east.

Uk can not build fleets at all this turn and is restricted to airforce or trying to hold india with IC but this is now risky as the jap has a firm grip there having the whole first turn unhindered by Russia, Us or Uk…

You tell me what Uk does this turn because I don’t know…
If Uk didn’t buy a fleet turn 1 (as I recommended)… It should have a chance to hamper the jap in russia.

this i can kind of buy, but i think you’ve set some unrealistic goals for yourself.
The UK has a lot of options depending on what fighting happened etc. I think that this massive fleet you’ve got organized in the UK seazone does not really exist as no serious allied player would let it. Supposing it did, UK buys planes or considers the india ic that Russia is moving its spare troops to.

Us has the difficult choice: Reinforcing pacific fleet if still alive… Or building a new one in Atlantic that can be smashed by both Japanese and Germ?

the us has no pacific fleet. get over it. it’s unnecessary and futile unless following a KJF strat and even then you don’t really go with the big West coast fleet.
And as i said - an atlantic fleet will not get smashed by japan. It would take another 3 turns or so to get to EUS from HAW. That’s assuming i let you take/hold panama, and not kill your fleet in the east.

Or should Us go aircraft heavy with Brit to eventually blow at great sacrfices the Jap and Germ fleet?

maybe, but not as much fun.

i really can’t reply to the rest as you’ve made some assumptions about odds and movements that are not easily correlatable in life. You have to many atlantic axis boats. As i said, i’d like to see you play this strat against me. that french ic with no extra GE inf looks yummy.
and how did you buy the ic, the trn and the ac?
that’s groovy math.

Turn 3

Russia should go all EEu but should leave reinforcements in Karelia (Germ has fleet that could go backdoor way…) and East because Jap is near…

@adon:

Hi again!!

My tactic is crap!!!

-Because I did forget about some things…

1)Fig are not placed on Ac directly when purchased…

2)Panama must be taken to allow jap fleet to atlantic… as you said…

I’ll have to figure out something else…

I’ll then forget about the french IC for the start at least…

Any ideas on how to secure and keep the Uk seazone from the allies?

I think securing it is the only way Germany has a chance to contain the russian by having mostly one front war…

your tactic is not complete crap. It’s a nice idea, and i have seen a semblance of a German navy before.
At the same time, this is what the japanese is for. They keep Russian attention on them in the East and eventually force the R-inf to stay home allowing for penetration through Kar.
As for keeping the UK SZ pure - maybe think more about subs if you need. They’re cheap alternatives to fighters, and you can drop a few of them at some point to do your hunting for you. Couple them with planes and you might build up something pretty.
At the same time, i prolly wouldn’t look to trying this - if only because i’m old and i don’t respond to change easily. It’s a nice idea, but you, as Germany, are competing with the combined incomes of 2 countries in the east, and trying to stave off an angry Russian army. it’s a nice idea, just impractical.
Keep working
cc

How about this:

Bid 18 for 1IC WEU and 1 Inf EEU with RR

Then when the Russians move troops from Cau the germans take it hard.

Loose only the BAL sub against the NOR fleet and attack the BB in WMD with ASO Sub CMD BB and Trn. Loose the sub and Bring an Inf from SEU to drop in Gib. Divide you Airforce up in support as you see fit.

Take the Arm or two Inf from Fin to Alg. This blocks the entrance to the Med.

Build your AC and a trany in WEU on the first turn on the WMD coast.

This should leave you with 1AC,1BB & 2Trn in the WMD

If you loose too many fighters the Japs can land two fighters from Man & Bur in Cau. These can be moved to the AC on J2 after you move the entire fleet to NOR, there for defence anyway.

I doubt if it would work but its the best I can do to get the result you are looking for. :)

you see dezertfish? this is why you get nominations for the top “3”.
i just tear other people down - you actually try to kick start a not-bad plan.

on G2 you cant drop the fighters on the carrier. they must be built on the land and moved there later.

I can’t help it, I’m a sucker for an off the wall strat that just might work. :wink:

I used to play games against myself trying to come up with wild scheems that no one would see comming. It’s kind of hard to trick yourself though. :lol:

@dezrtfish:

I can’t help it, I’m a sucker for an off the wall strat that just might work. :wink:

I used to play games against myself trying to come up with wild scheems that no one would see comming. It’s kind of hard to trick yourself though. :lol:

i feel like i trick myself all the time.
and not in the good way . . . .

Awards to both dz_fish and c_c_, 8)

Gwyneth Paltrow, in a lacey white evening dress which allows you to see every curve without seeing anything steps to the podium, opens the envelope, glances around the auditorium and says, “The Silver Lining Award goes to dezrtfish for encouragement.”

Hali Barry, in a draping low-cut front and an even lower-cut back shimmering silk gown steps to the podium, opens the envelope, looks in the camera and says, “The Pat on the Back Award goes to cystic_crypt for recognition of a good thing.”

Xi shouts from the 3rd row, “The ballots have been tampered with. I was robbed!” He is promptly dragged screaming from the theatre. :evil: