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Thoughts on a Japanese strategy?



  • Was just thinking, given the Japanese victory objectives, has anyone made an early run at Australia? Here’s my thought. Turn 1 - press China on the ground and build a coplex in asia to support. Also divert a big portion of your fleet loaded with transports to the Caroline Islands. Turn 2 - Keep pressing China hard working towards a strike on India. Tanks from your production facility. Your fleet at Caroline now attacks, utilizing the extra movement from the Naval yard, Ausralia and lands as many units as possible on the continent. By turn three you should have Sydney all the while getting that fleet back into position for the US.

    Thoughts as to whether this might work?  :?

    Bill



  • ANZAC is a good choice for your first VC (not counting HK and Philippines).  You can use Western Australia as a place to fly your planes out of, and by doing so you largely avoid having to commit large amount of navy to the cause.  I see this as the steps:

    Turn 1: Move fleet south, build 3 transports
    Turn 2: Move fleet south
    Turn 3: Capture Western Australia
    Turn 4: NCM air force to Western Australia
    Turn 5: Take Sydney

    Eliminating ANZAC forces USA to deal with a large boost in income, and it’s difficult to liberate without a strong investment in Transports.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    In Global, a HARD press by the Japanese against the Russians is also Required… if you want to help your allies win.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Try something like this:

    Set up Kill America First as described.  It can be thwarted but that’s not the point.  Attack and take Hawaii.  From there, you can hit New Zealand and Queensland and from there, you can take New South Wales for your next NO.

    After that, all you need are some destroyers to block the Americans with and the DEI.



  • @billinjackson:

    Was just thinking, given the Japanese victory objectives, has anyone made an early run at Australia? Here’s my thought. Turn 1 - press China on the ground and build a coplex in asia to support. Also divert a big portion of your fleet loaded with transports to the Caroline Islands. Turn 2 - Keep pressing China hard working towards a strike on India. Tanks from your production facility. Your fleet at Caroline now attacks, utilizing the extra movement from the Naval yard, Ausralia and lands as many units as possible on the continent. By turn three you should have Sydney all the while getting that fleet back into position for the US.

    Thoughts as to whether this might work?  :?

    Bill

    Ok, so I did it. I gathered half my fleet at the Caroline Islands with three transports loaded. Now, Anzac was an inexperienced player, that much I have to point out, but the allies, in general, felt I was gathering for Hawaii and made no defensive preps for Australia. In fact they left no naval units adjacent to Queensland and pushed up to New Guinea. So Queensland is where I hit with bombardments, planes and an invasion. Australia was taken and the allies felt they lost the pacific. It inevitably led to an early surrender.

    To Cmndr Jennifer’s point, it was a complete surprise attack!


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Surprises are pretty much the only thing I see as a relaible way to win.  Unfortunately, they only work once.



  • @Cmdr:

    Surprises are pretty much the only thing I see as a relaible way to win.  Unfortunately, they only work once.

    The trick is to have the same standard buys, and mask your operations.  If you play against the same opponent, attack a different target first each game, go for Hawaii one time, Sydney another, and Calcutta the third.  Sometimes yuo can just use Japan to assist Germany, by taking Africa and the Middle East and helping defeat Russia.  There is a wide variety of gambits you can utilize.

    I think that Sydney followed by Calcutta is a great tactic against an unknown opponent (be sure you take Hong Kong, Malaya, and Borneo, and strategic bomb Calcutta to limit their infantry stacks).



  • @Cmdr:

    Try something like this:

    Set up Kill America First as described.  It can be thwarted but that’s not the point.  Attack and take Hawaii.  From there, you can hit New Zealand and Queensland and from there, you can take New South Wales for your next NO.

    After that, all you need are some destroyers to block the Americans with and the DEI.

    I had an opponent move everything to the Caroline Islands. Ya I saw the whole Hawaii thing, but I moved the American fleet into a strong position, which is what they can do when not attacked J1 (in fact, I welcomed the inevitable Pacific attrition battle between our two navies). The only thing that worried me was a move on Sydney, because the Caroline islands is such a short and obvious route to a vital capital city like that. So I used my cruiser and destroyer to block both sea routes and bought 3 infantry A1. Because I built up the defense immediately, he chickened out and didn’t go for it, but I didn’t like what ANZAC was forced to buy the first 2 turns. Personally, I prefer to take all of China, push back the Russian infantry stacks away from Korea, and try to grab Calcutta before the American hammer falls. I feel that if Japan can get all of Australia, they certainly can’t hold it, and by that time, the window on Calcutta has closed.



  • What is the strong position you mention for the US fleet if the Japs gather their fleet at the Carolines? Hawaii with blockers in SZ30 and 31?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I wouldn’t call it chickening out.  Your opponent succeeded in getting Australia to purchase a bunch of ground units instead of naval units.  Since Australia has very limited means for using these units offensively, he effectively SBRed you without any risk to himself. (defined as costing you IPC.)

    I am not a HUGE fan of SZ 33, I prefer a naval base on Formosa and the fleet off the coast of Kwangtung (Hong Kong) so I can snipe Philippines, Celebes, Borneo, Java and Sumatra on my attack, or SZ 9 and 11 so I can encourage America to put ground units down.



  • @Piet:

    What is the strong position you mention for the US fleet if the Japs gather their fleet at the Carolines? Hawaii with blockers in SZ30 and 31?

    The US can send the San Fransisco fleet to join the fleet in Hawaii, and hope the Japanese hit it. It will bring them into the war early and the Japs will lose half their fleet.



  • Dunno…you would then have only 52IPC to spend on a new fleet, which the Japs could destroy again in the next round. Sure this works?



  • @Piet:

    Dunno…you would then have only 52IPC to spend on a new fleet, which the Japs could destroy again in the next round. Sure this works?

    Each attack the Japanese fleet makes on the US fleet early in the game is always a good thing. Right away, the japs lose their $10 NO and the US gains at least $15 ($20 if they still have Philippines). Japans fleet will dwindle and there is no chance of landing and taking San Francisco. If the US can’t replace their lost boats because the remaining Japanese fleet is too close, they can drop a ton of bombers and deal with them that way. My point is, that its better for the US to have the Japs come toward them rather than the US taking half the game chasing the japs fleet all over the Pacific. Besides, if the Japanese fleet is off the shores of California, they can’t use their Kamikaze, and the UK, ANZAC, China and Russia, all have a ton of pressure off them. The US will eventually out purchase the Japanese and they will be dropping units right into the fray while the Japs have to sail their reinforcements from 2 turns away.



  • @Cmdr:

    I wouldn’t call it chickening out.  Your opponent succeeded in getting Australia to purchase a bunch of ground units instead of naval units.  Since Australia has very limited means for using these units offensively, he effectively SBRed you without any risk to himself. (defined as costing you IPC.)

    I am not a HUGE fan of SZ 33, I prefer a naval base on Formosa and the fleet off the coast of Kwangtung (Hong Kong) so I can snipe Philippines, Celebes, Borneo, Java and Sumatra on my attack, or SZ 9 and 11 so I can encourage America to put ground units down.

    Thats what I would do too.



  • have a naval base in sumatra
    it’s weird little idea i really like
    there, you can easily hit either middle-east or africa
    (if uk is conquered it’s even possible to take south africa)
    else you can still reach a lot of convoys with your subs
    but of course, this is if US aims at germany (likely after sealion)


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Yes, Sumatra does allow you to land in Kenya, Tangyanika or Madagascar, but you have to declare war on England, Australia and America before you can take Sumatra whereas you start with Formosa.



  • @Cmdr:

    Yes, Sumatra does allow you to land in Kenya, Tangyanika or Madagascar, but you have to declare war on England, Australia and America before you can take Sumatra whereas you start with Formosa.

    Have you ever landed Japanese troops in Africa?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Not yet, no.



  • @Cmdr:

    Not yet, no.

    I remember in Anniversary and Classic, I landed the Japanese in Africa quite a bit. Now with Global, even when I take Calcutta, I find myself scrambling to get back in the Pacific. It’s all because of more enemies, more battle fronts and more sea zones, but if Italy can’t take care of Africa, than who can?.

    So…… When you play Japan, do you take out Calcutta, and if so, how confident in your strategy are you, that you’re sure you can take it. I mean there is so much talk on this forum analyzing Sealion, that I think the Capturing of Calcutta should get just as much attention. I attempted this operation twice and have succeeded once.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Two best games i had with Japan:

    Control of Moscow and San Francisco (all surprise!  America didn’t expect a landing!)
    Control of Hawaii and New South Wales with no British fleet left.

    In both games, it was because America built something in the Atlantic before containing Japan



  • @Cmdr:

    Two best games i had with Japan:

    Control of Moscow and San Francisco (all surprise!  America didn’t expect a landing!)
    Control of Hawaii and New South Wales with no British fleet left.

    In both games, it was because America built something in the Atlantic before containing Japan

    Very impressive, but it doesn’t sound like a strategy you can rely on (because it needs the element of surprise), and how did you ever hold your coastal territories (or did you sacrifice them for income elsewhere?). Have you ever taken Calcutta, is it a viable strategy for Japan?


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    I have seen Calcutta fall.  It never worked out for Japan.  Actually, in all my games of late, nothing has worked for Japan except the element of surprise.  And that only works once.  They are out spent, out manuevered and out classed.

    As for coastal territories, no, I evacuated in both instances.



  • @Young:

    @Cmdr:

    Try something like this:

    Set up Kill America First as described.  It can be thwarted but that’s not the point.  Attack and take Hawaii.  From there, you can hit New Zealand and Queensland and from there, you can take New South Wales for your next NO.

    After that, all you need are some destroyers to block the Americans with and the DEI.

    I had an opponent move everything to the Caroline Islands. Ya I saw the whole Hawaii thing, but I moved the American fleet into a strong position, which is what they can do when not attacked J1 (in fact, I welcomed the inevitable Pacific attrition battle between our two navies). The only thing that worried me was a move on Sydney, because the Caroline islands is such a short and obvious route to a vital capital city like that. So I used my cruiser and destroyer to block both sea routes and bought 3 infantry A1. Because I built up the defense immediately, he chickened out and didn’t go for it, but I didn’t like what ANZAC was forced to buy the first 2 turns. Personally, I prefer to take all of China, push back the Russian infantry stacks away from Korea, and try to grab Calcutta before the American hammer falls. I feel that if Japan can get all of Australia, they certainly can’t hold it, and by that time, the window on Calcutta has closed.

    Just food for thought, IF allies are going Japan first:

    Focus land units on China, ignore Russia early on.

    You don’t need the Japanese navy to take India/Australia in your above scenario. I have used this tactic before: (Stage in Carolines)
    Wait until turn 4, when Germany takes London, Move Japs to Queensland  sz 54. Drop 8 transport worth of men there.
    Send Japan sz 6 transports to Philippines, maybe a carrier from Caroline if needed for defense. Rest of air units to Caroline.

    Seizing Queensland nullifies one Anzac NO. park two subs in New south wales turn 4 and they will collect 10-5=5 IPCs+their islands turn 4 and later until US clears those subs (turn 6?), then its 8 ipcs+islands as you live in Queensland. USA goes fleet mostly to harass Japan, they lack the transports to retake from stacks of units.

    Turn 5, since you have the naval base at Queensland and Philippines, move both fleets to Sumartra Clear blockers and NCM if necessary, leave a few land in Queensland to take New south wales later build a minor factory there, using Caroline based air force to land and protect factory. Do not take the DEI, then USA can never have them.

    Turn 6 (if UK went navy) you should be able to seize India’s waters and take the island of Ceylon in sz 39, this nullifies their NO and convoy raids UK if they get Kwantung back. You may have enough to seize India itself as they thought you were taking Australia-preferred.

    When Queensland is secure fly air units to Burma,Shan state, or carriers(carrier planes to Ceylon) once air force is staged, take India-backup plan.

    This permits the Japanese to continue to via for their Cities leaving the seas to the USA, India and Australia will fall over time.

    This is a basic outline, there are many specifics that require adjustment. Success in China is mandatory or you will lose big.

    Now the USA must help hold India and Australia and convoy Japan sz6 and get Philippines back before Japan wins by cities……lot to focus on. Japan’s income will likely be low 30’s thanks to Chinese assets and a few Anzac territories if you use your tank down there.

    Any thoughts?

    Edit: you are hoping they think you are going Australia first and that you can redeploy enough assets to grab India instead…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Seizing the island of New Britian takes BOTH Australian Objectives and is generally one of the hardest territories for the Allies to liberate, in my opinion.



  • So where is the Japanese fleet more useful for all intensive purposes. Indian ocean, south Pacific ocean, or divided into 2 smaller fleets and used in both oceans? The answer should also reveal the best capital to capture first.


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