The Defense Of Britain



  • What is the best way to go about defending Britain from the inevitable sealion attack by the Germans? If the German player keeps his Battle Ship, Cruiser, and Transport behind the Denmark Strait then UK can place a remaining surface ship (if there are any) into sea zone 112. Which would stop the Germans for another round possibly giving the British enough time to build up defenses in Britain that would stop the Germans. But that’s only fine and dandy if the Gemans don’t wipe out the Royal Navy completey and then mass forces in the English Strait putting into effect a sort of reverse D-day on G2. What sort of defense could the British conjure up in one turn to stop the invading Germans upon the cliffs of Dover?



  • Well, number one, you could move the crusier from SZ 91 to SZ 112 if the German player hides behind Denmark. You could also fly all extra planes into England (Gibralter, Malta, Normandy). Obviously buying infantry is neccesary, and if you group whatever remains of your force after G1, you should be able to hold out.



  • That could work but it would leave Africa very open to Itailian attacks and if Italy gets too strong as in taking all of Africa then they can begin to cause huge problems to the allies. The Itailians could then focus on destroying the American navy leaving Germany free to focus on Russia.


  • Customizer

    @Failure:

    That could work but it would leave Africa very open to Itailian attacks and if Italy gets too strong as in taking all of Africa then they can begin to cause huge problems to the allies. The Itailians could then focus on destroying the American navy leaving Germany free to focus on Russia.

    A dead Britain is worse than a weak Britain.

    UK1 bring the units in Canada over (if the TT is alive).  Pull the fleet from Egy to sz92 and block in sz94.  Bring some planes down to Gib and block in sz104 witht he DD from sz109 (use 106 instead if it is alive.)  Maybe you can leave some fleet in sz91 even, but not likely.  Build inf.  A G2 sealion is now out.

    UK2 - if there was a landing in Scotland, you may be able to hit his fleet in sz111 with all planes and possibly some ships and sink it.  Then bring up the fleet from sz92 to sz110 (or into sz112 and block Sealion entirely if there is a ship in range).  His TTs would be in sz113, so he is now unable to eat through the fleet and take London with 3 fewer TTs and some planes needed to kill your fleet.

    If he hit Scotland  and protected it properly, you can try hitting his TT fleet in sz113 (as that is where they have to be built, as sz112 you will kill them all with planes from Gib)  Buy 2 CV and hit him with the 3 - 4 planes you have in London (depending on how many you took to Gib) and hit the TTs as he only scrambles 3 fht himself).

    If that isn’t an option, hit Scotland with 2 inf and enough aircraft to wipe out Scotland (he may have an AA there, so bring in only what you need).  Build 10 units, maximizing defense power - tanks and fht if possible, but make sure you buy 10.  Bring back all planes.  Fleet to somewhere safe.  Depending on where Italian planes are, you could sacrifice some ships to prevent amphibs.  G3 Sealion should be stopped or risky.

    UK 4 - if he didn’t hit but landed in Scotland instead, you may yet have a shot on his fleet in sz111 with all your planes and any ships in range.

    If not, hit Scotland for 2 - rounds, and then pull back (don’t take Scotland.).  Build 10 units and that is all you can do.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    A dead England matters not.  You can easily hold the German armada at bay with Russia, if Japan isn’t going for the throat and America is heavily invested in stoppping Japan.  This is because reinforcements can be brought up from India.

    However, you want to STOP Sea Lion?  Then you need to invest it all in England, hope Germany didn’t get the SZ 106 transport and the fighter in Normandy and even then, you need the dice to luck out for you as Germany will still have a 65% chance of winning.


  • Customizer

    A dead Britain is worse than a weak Britain.



  • I find that subs stationed around Africa in sea zones 70, 71, 72, 82 works wonders to neuter UK-London, coupled with capturing Egypt and menacing the Brits in the North Atlantic too.  It’s effective to reduce British power in the face of KJF.



  • If Germany wants the UK(i.e. SeaLion), there is nothing the UK can do to stop them. As mentioned there are many ways to try and prevent it or at least make it very costly. Put the Med fleet in SZ92(Turn 1). Don’t worry about block b/cuz the Italians won’t be able to kill it by themselves. If the Italians hit you Turn 1(to soften you up for the German airforce), then they’ll die and that’s a good thing for the UK. If the Germans hit you w/their airforce Round 2, then that’s more good news, as it kills more German airforce and usually means putting the German airforce out of position for a Turn 3 SeaLion. More good news for the Brits. Don’t worry about blocking in SZ94, for the above mentioned reasons.

    If the Germans invade Scotland on Turn 2 and have built 7 more transports on Turn 2, then you can be reasonably assured that Germany is going for SeaLion. Don’t take Scotland back. Usually Germany has taken Scotland w/3 Inf, 3 Art. On Turn 1, you should have built 4 Inf, 4 Art in the UK. If for some reason you still have your CC from SZ91 and your DD from SZ109, then you can hit the German fleet in SZ111 w/your air & fleet. But, most likely if your fleet is still in those SZ’s after Turn 1, the German player, could decide not to SeaLion and kill your remaining fleet. Most UK players have moved their fleet out of those SZ’s. In that case, you defend against SeaLion as best you can, building up your US forces in SZ64, w/a NB in Smx, so if Germany does SeaLion, you can get a huge invasion force to the UK by Turn 4 and take it back.



  • Also, if Germany does invade Scotland but doesn’t build more transports on Turn 2, then by building 4 Inf, 4 Art, you have enough firepower to take Scotland back if need be. Also w/the 70 IPC’s Germany has to spend on Turn 2, they have more than enough money to buy 7 transports(49), plus another AC in SZ113 w/2 FTR’s, plus scrambles in W. Ger to defend their 7 newly built transports.


  • Customizer

    If the Germans invade Scotland on Turn 2 and have built 7 more transports on Turn 2, then you can be reasonably assured that Germany is going for SeaLion.

    If this is all they build, you can stop Sealion cold.  They need the 12 TTs to do it.



  • I just did it w/only 10 Transports in a game against a very good opponent. This is after he built all Inf in Round’s 1 and 2 AND brought over 1 Inf, 1 Arm from Canada.



  • I stopped a poorly planned Sea Lion with a sub purchase.  Works great against a Germany that only has a CV and planes in the North Sea.



  • How would you stop a SeaLion w/only subs?


  • Customizer

    @Commando:

    I just did it w/only 10 Transports in a game against a very good opponent. This is after he built all Inf in Round’s 1 and 2 AND brought over 1 Inf, 1 Arm from Canada.

    Then he got bad rolls.  You can also bring in 2 French inf from Africa, and all air power.  UK should also be able to buy 1 tank (2 if the sb bonus is achieved) and 9 inf UK 2.



  • Germany Turn 1 - Builds : 1 AC, 2 Trans
    UK Turn 1 - Builds : 4 Inf, 4 Art(max builds)

    Germany Turn 2 - Invades Scotland w/3 Inf, 3 Art
    UK Turn 2 - Builds : 8 Inf, 2 Art(assuming they have 32 IPC’s, which they should). They bring over 1 Inf, 1 Arm from Canada. Most likely the DD & Trans in SZ106 are dead. So that leaves 1 Trans from SZ109 to bring over the 1 Inf, 1 Arm from Canada. Assuming they bring up 2 more French Inf from Africa. And all their aircraft(6 FTr’s, including the French + 1 Tac). That’s 19 Inf, 6 Art, 1 Arm, 6 FTR’s, 1 Tac + 1 AA defending.

    Germany Turn 3 - Attacks UK w/13 Inf, 5 Art, 8 Arm, 5 FTR’s, 5 Tacs, 1 S. Bmbr, 1 BB + 1 CC shore bombard.

    Odds calculator says Germany wins : 69.5% of the time. Ran scenario 10,000 times.

    How does Germany not win?


  • Customizer

    Let’s play it out then.

    Give me your opening moves and post a map.


  • Customizer

    UK can buy 9 inf save $1.  That’s 1 more at 2.

    and you’ll only get that sz106 TT 33%.

    UK can take Cpr turn 1 - $2 more.  Total is now $35.  Potentially $40 with sb bonus.


  • Customizer

    I have 24 inf inf, 1 art, 2 tanks, 6 fht, 1 tac vs 10 inf, 10 tanks, 5 fht, 5 tac, 1 bmb, 2 amphibs. (assuming I hit Scotland UK2 with 2 inf, 6 fht, 1 tac and lost 2 inf and 1 plane)

    I have you at 34%.  Run 10 000 times.

    You’d take those odds?

    I typed it in wrong.  Here are the new numbers based on you having 10 TTs.  Much worse with only 9.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Run your numbers again, using the following data:

    SZ 106 cleared
    SZ 110 Cleared
    SZ 111 Cleared
    SZ 112 cleared
    France taken
    Normandy/W. France taken (so you have none of those units to reinforce England with.)

    This is how England should normally look.  THat should remove 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Armor, 1 Fighter from your setup in England making a HUGE difference in your numbers!



  • Not many games does Germany lose ALL it’s subs on Turn 1. Also, even if the UK takes Cpr on Turn 1, instead of taking a more rich target like Java or Sumatra(not the best UK strategy), that’s 36 IPC’s to spend on Turn 2. So, instead of buying 9 Inf, 1 Art. You’re buying 8 Inf, 2 Arm. In that scenario, that’s 24 Inf, 2 Arm, 6 FTR’s, 1 Tac defending against SeaLion. Odds calculator says Germany wins : 67.2% of the time. So in that scenario, you’re only decreasing the odds of Germany winning by : 2.3%. Also by not building 4 Inf, 4 Art on Turn 1, if Germany invades Scotland w/3 Inf 3 Art on Turn 2, then decides NOT to SeaLion, you’ll only have Inf to counter-attack. My recommendation is UK builds 4 Inf, 4 Art on Turn 1, so as to have the max counter-attack force possible, not only against Scotland but future turns against Germany.

    EVEN if the UK has 40 IPC’s to spend(highly unlikely). That’s 3 Arm, 7 Inf on Turn 2. Leaving 23 Inf, 4 Arm, 6 FTR’s, 1 Tac defending. Odds calculator says Germany still wins : 56.3% of the time. Now of course, most good Axis players won’t risk SeaLion at this point but my point is, it’s still possible. AND, if the UK player is diverting all of it’s forces(i.e. all airforce) to the defense of the UK, then the Italian player is loving life). If the Axis see this Allied move on Turn 1(i.e. the Brit trans from SZ98, load up 2 French Inf and assuming all German subs die on Turn 1), then of course on Germany’s Turn 2, they don’t build 7 Transports but can still land in Scotland if they want and divert their attention over to Russia, still while threatening SeaLion and keeping the Brits down. Or, just divert all of their attention over to Russia.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I don’t really see 6 fighters, 1 tactical bomber for English defense.

    2 in England
    1 in Scotland
    1 in Gibraltar
    1 Fr. Fighter

    You’ll be down at least two aircraft from SZ 97, so I’ll assume the Maltese and SZ 98 aircraft.



  • Ok, first of all if you attack Scotland w/2 Inf, you’re down 2 Inf. You start w/7 Inf(1 in Canada, 1 in Scotland, 3 in the UK(one French) + 2 Frenchies in Africa. That’s 7. You build 9 Inf on Turn 1, save 1 IPC. That’s 16 Inf on Turn 1. Assuming you take Cpr on Turn 1, you would have 36 to build on Turn 2. Turn 2 you build 8 Inf, 2 Arm. That’s 24 Inf, 3 Arm, 6 FTR’s, 1 Tac defending. BUT, if like you said, you attack Scotland w/2 Inf. That’s only 22 Inf defending, not 24.

    And you only have 5 FTR’s, 1 Tac to attack Scotland, not 6 FTR’s. Remember one is French. AND, that’s assuming you get avg dicing in Scotland. That’s an awfully BIG risk if I get good dicing and you get bad dicing. I’ve seen this happen before. IMHO, it’s better to defend than risk losing precious FTR’s in that battle.



  • He’s assuming 1 FTR in Sco, 3 FTR’s in UK(one French), 1 FTR from Gib, 1 FTR from Mal, 1 Tac from SZ98.



  • He wouldn’t be attacking SZ97 in this scenario. Like I said, great for the Italians.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Well, I’m all confused because on the one hand everyone is stipulating that the Italian fleet is decimated by England and then all these aircraft are magically appearing in England again.  =/

    Here’s how I see it:  14 Ground units in Scotland on G3.  28 Ground Units, 11 Aircraft in England on G4.  Perhaps more if England turtles since I’d get more transports to handle the influx so I could have up to 40 ground units and 11 aircraft in England on G4 if needed.

    Now, if England is ignoring the Italians, why are the Italians not making the British pay for that?


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