Attacking Ussr as Germany

First thought:  With all that stuff in SZ 9 (right next to W. USA) why isn’t america dumping 9 ground units a round into N. America?  It’s only 27 IPC and they can save up 25 more!  (or just get a lot more tanks).

Shouldnt that be MORE than enough to stop Japan from taking America?

@Cmdr:

First thought:  With all that stuff in SZ 9 (right next to W. USA) why isn’t america dumping 9 ground units a round into N. America?  It’s only 27 IPC and they can save up 25 more!  (or just get a lot more tanks).

Shouldnt that be MORE than enough to stop Japan from taking America?

True.  I do think that having the US buy 9 ground units on US 1 and 2 would be more than enough to stop the Axis from taking out the US first.   However, I mainly think of this as a counter to your 100% US Pacific strategy.  If the US buys ground units on US1 and 2, Japan should be able to sink the US starting fleet handily and be on it’s merry way.  No commitment needed from Germany or placing all those transports into N. America.

However, if the US does build all Pacific naval on US 1 and US 2, I thought there would be a fighting chance that the Axis could take W. US and C. US or even E. US if the US doesn’t defend it properly.  Then with all the Japanese planes in N. America, a proper bombing campaign could help to defeat the US first.  Just an idea of course until someone tries it out though….

Jen,

When you do try this out, could you link to the game or PM and let me know which one it is?  I would really like to follow it if possible to see it placed into action.

Well, USA buys 9 ground units for 3 rounds + 1 airbase for C. USA, moves the fleet and aircover to E. USA/C. USA.  The starting fleet is more than saved, there’s nothing Germany is really going to do against 6 planes and boats but it does pull them out of the Pacific for the first round of American play.  Left over cash is building up so that when all those ICs are upgraded to Majors America can quickly dump small ships in the water.

This puts the axis in an awkward position.  Now they either tie up their fleets threatening the US or they leave allowing the US to do exactly as it wanted to do.  Either event, it’s really only a matter of time before Japan is gone and America has those extra ground units it now does not need to build to move into Africa with. (by the end I generally have 24 transports shuttling 24 units a round into Africa.)

@Cmdr:

This puts the axis in an awkward position.  Now they either tie up their fleets threatening the US or they leave allowing the US to do exactly as it wanted to do.  Either event, it’s really only a matter of time before Japan is gone and America has those extra ground units it now does not need to build to move into Africa with.

Look, I readily admit that I don’t have a lot of experience doing or playing against your 100% US Pacific strategy.  But isn’t the strategy premised on time?  The US neuters Japan before the Euro-Axis get 8 VC?  If your fleet is now in sz 101 doesn’t it add an extra round (if not two) to get them where they need to be in the Pacific?  That wouldn’t help Japan at all?  The Germans could still do Sealion instead of moving to Gibraltar on G3.  How many people are honestly going to build ground units on US 1?

My question is does it hurt Japan MORE than it hurts America?  If the answer is yes, then it is in America’s best interests for you to do this.

Why might it?

• Less threat in teh South Pacific
• No threat to NSW
• No threat to India
• Less threat in China
• Less threat in Russia
• Less income for Japan
• More Income for India/Australia

Maybe it is worth it?  Maybe not.  I only ask the questions.

All good questions, which is what I mostly have at this point too.  I am pretty much selling the house to bring all the pressure I can on the US to see if it can fall first.  If it can fall (or to a lesser extent be neutralized), then it may be worth it.

US
-loss of W. US (-10)
-loss of continental continuity bonus (-10)
-loss of Alaska (-2)
-loss of Alaska bonus (-5)
-loss of C. US (-12) (it better fall at least once initially or I don’t envision this being a worth while strategy) (or, possibly traded as dead zone for a few rounds?)
-loss of Mexico bonus (-5)
-no 5 of 7 island NO bonus (-5)

Axis
+W. US (+10)
+Alaska (+2)
+C US (+12)

• strategic bombing of the only US major complex, Washington?
• could build minor complex in Alaska (J4) and Mexico (J4 or J5)
• UK Europe would lose some Canadian $
• Germany can go to sz 101, 89 or 106 to land troops.
• Italy could try to do can openers on the US…wouldn’t that be interesting to see?

I have been thinking about what you said with the US buying nine ground units on US1 and US 2 once they see Japans opening move (I had thought that would be the weakness of this strategy too) and Japan could conceal its intentions a bit by purchasing three transports on J1 and moving everything to sz 6 instead of out towards the US.  Who would be buying ground units and moving the fleet towards Washington on US 1 if Japan’s naval units are in sz 6?  Japan would then wait to move out on J2.  Of course the US could buy nine ground units on US 2 and still move the fleet to Washington, but maybe that is enough of an opening for the Axis?  I don’t know.

Again, I don’t exactly know how viable this is.  For sure, it benefits the Axis if the US buys naval units since they can be bypassed (for the most part) to land troops in North America.

You at least can see how this has potential don’t you?  Jen, are you even interested in trying this out?

I will try it out.  It’s new, so who knows, it might work, it might fail.  “They charged valiantly!”  “Yes, sergeant, and they died valiantly!”

We got this to work in one of our games, but it was using OOB rules. You know, way, way back. Italy got in on the action too; had them scoop up West Indies and Mexico, and used them to harass Central America and Eastern America to pave the way for Germans coming down out of Canada. Once the Japanese airforce got a foothold in Alaska, it didn’t go well for the US. I should note however that the US player did not see this coming, and was staging to counter Sealion, which left the Pacific a little open.

It is hard to tell whether or not a counter-Sea Lion (as you put it) helped or hurt America.  For one, all those ships had to have made Germany and Italy’s jobs harder, but on the other hand, that’s less ground units to push out the Japanese.