• '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    14/15 = 0.933333… which when rounded = 1.

    In other words, it’s statistically close enough to even to be called equal.  However, I do agree, that mathematically 14 =/= 15

    As for why do they have to be similar?  I believe that was the beginning of the discussion: Russia needs to be able to take and hold ground in this version of the game, not just trade it like in previous versions.  I am not personally ascribing too that theory, just stating where it started from.

    Personally, I think Russia needs 2/3rds to 3/4ths the tanks Germany has and India/Africa needs twice as many as Italy has.  Just my perspective on it.  Personally, when it comes to Russia, I am leaning towards:

    y(x)=(6 Infantry + 4 Artillery + 2 Armor)k + 3 Fighters + 2 Tactical Bombers

    Such that: k is the proportional constant.  That is, if you have 12 infantry, then my formula would state you need 8 artillery and 4 armor.

    Note: the above assumes a significant portion of the game has elapsed and that Russia has had the cash to get the extra fighter and tactical bomber due to either an early break into eastern Europe or delayed Japanese involvement or whatever.

  • Jennifer, couldn’t agree more!  😄 Mostly Inf the first 2 rounds is important. Generally, Russia will have 37 IPC’s to build the first few rounds. So, 9 Inf each of the first two rounds, followed by 2 Art or 1 Tank, 1 Mech is usually a good build. By Rounds 3 or 4, you can build a few more Art, since the Germany forces are right next to Nov and Sukr and you can usually throw in a Mech and/or Tank or two because by then you have enough Inf that can soak up losses.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    37 IPC = 11 Infantry, 1 Artillery.  That gives me a jump on the Infantry to Artillery/Armor ratios and allows me to move slow moving infantry up to the front while Germany’s playing with France and England. (Even if you don’t go Sea Lion, Germany’s playing with the British fleet for at least that first round.)

    Second round I probably still have 37 IPC, unless Japan’s player is really inexperienced, in which case, I have 49 IPC, but let’s assume 37 IPC, for argument’s sake:

    I no longer have 3 rounds to get into position before expecting a German attack, I now have 2.  (because on Round 4, Germany’s going to attack, probably.)  I cannot get units from Volgorod or Muskva to E. Poland, Baltic States or Bessarabia any longer, nor can I get them to Belarus, N. Ukraine, S. Ukraine or Novgorod (from Muskva/Volgorod remember) thus, getting units that travel one per turn is no longer as beneficial, so I’ll ease off those units a bit:

    37 IPC = 5 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 3 Armor.  Note:  This allows me to put slow moving units into Novgorod and S. Ukraine where they are in position, while Armor can go in Muskva where they can get into position with the first round of builds!

    Round 3:  I’ll probably still have 37 IPC, I am still assuming Japan does not attack:

    I’ll get 6 Artillery (24 IPC) + 2 Armor.  The armor can move in quickly from Muskva while the Artillery (again) maximizes my factories in Novgorod and S. Ukraine.  All this extra artillery makes my infantry stacks (that should be standing at about 41 Infantry) a significant threat to any German stack.

    By the start of Round 4, the Russians should have: 38 Infantry, 10 Artillery, 7 Armor and 2 Mechanized Infantry on the front lines, with which they can support with 2 Fighters, 1 Tactical Bomber from Novgorod to attack a German stack.  (Assumes: 1 Infantry in Baltic States, 1 Infantry in E. Poland and 1 Infantry in Bessarabia as a picket line; also assumes the force is split between Novgorod, Belarus, N. Ukraine and S. Ukraine with Novgorod and S. Ukraine containing 3 artillery each, the rest split between Belarus and N. Ukraine).  There should also be at least an AA Gun present, though, I would have 2 present, one in the north, one in the south.

    Compare that to all infantry builds.  For one, most of your units are still walking to the front lines since you have to build at least some back in Moscow/Stalingrad.  For another, you have SIGNIFICANTLY less offensive punch, meaning German stacks are safer.  Now, just because you CAN destroy the infantry stack does not mean you SHOULD, but wouldn’t you want the possibility of doing it?

    Essentially, if you stage as discussed, Russia can pose a serious health risk to the German economy while maintaining the Russian one, and that’s what you want!  With England harrying the German navy, encouraging them to keep planes back in W. Germany and putting more ships in the water, Russia can easily out grow the German army in strength - if you can hold them out of red territories for a few extra rounds!

  • Jennifer - I especially like the six artillery for Novgorod/Ukraine - a nice purchase for R3. I’ll be trying this.

    Personally, I like being 2-1 with Armor/Mech Infantry also. If I have 8 Russian Armor, I want 4 Mech Infantry to roll along with it. Not much punch from the Mech, but a great mobile offense/defense combo.

    I’m in the middle of a game right now with a 10-6 combo of Armor/Mech… with nice Infantry/Artillery combos on the front (I like 3 Art for every 6 Inf), Germany doesn’t much like the idea of moving forward…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’ve yet to find a truely good situation in which Mechanized Infantry work for me.  They seem to be an opporunistic piece.  For example:

    If Italy can pop a hole in the Russian defense,
    Then Germany could use the MI to blitz into a Russian strategic territory.

    If China can pop a hole in the Japanese line,
    Then India can use the MI to blitz into the backranks of Japan.

    They just don’t seem to be units I go out of my way to purchase.  My armies can only move one territory at a time anyway and there’s really no forward location I can put MI without them getting hopelessly murdered by the enemy.

    I’ve used them early in the game to quickly move from one side of Europe to the other, or to the Soviet Far East (not the territoy, the group of territories) to reinforce against Japan, but that’s only with units I started with, not new ones.

  • Jennifer, they have three areas of use for me.

    1. With Japan, they give you the ability to keep the pressure on in Asia. I typically show up to topple India with around 10 Mech or so (to go with Armor and whatever Infantry I’ve built). I don’t get too caught up in the 4 IPC price, or worry too much about hoarding them or conserving them… they are simply fast infantry, meant to be take ground, hold ground, and die like any other infantry unit.

    2. They are an excellent purchase in S Africa for Britain, if you don’t have a transport shuck set up between Egypt and S Africa. It only takes two turns to get to Egypt, vs. four if you’re making the long walk.

    3. To me, they are the perfect companion for Armor. IF, as Germany, you manage to punch a hole in Russia’s lines, for example, they become your fodder for your Armor stack. I once broke through in a game across the north, eventually circumnavigated Moscow, and took Stalingrad with 12 Armor and my few remaining Mech Infantry… no regular infantry purchase ever would have allowed that… I would have been taking Armor as casualties along the way which means I never would have tried it in the first place.

    And I find that the same combo (2 Armor to 1 Mech) makes a fantastic mobile defense for Russia if placed and moved wisely, able to either attack or reinforce wherever needed.

    I do see your point - if speed and mobility weren’t the issue, I’d almost always choose to purchase Artillery.

  • Jennifer: You have had some very good points. I really like your ratios of infantry, artillery, and tanks. A unprepared German player would get slaughtered by the pressure points the 1-1 Russian - German tank ratio could cause.         
    Stalingradski is right about the Mech inf. They can be very useful if paired up with tanks in the right places. I especially find them usefull for Germany against the soviet union. With itally clearing any screaning russian inf on the front lines a large force of Mech, tanks and air support could sieze valuable territory from the Soviets and through them of balance forcing them to cover up and attempt to contian the blitz. The mechs protect the precious german tanks from damage. At the very least the mechs keep the options open for germany to switch from pressure on one front to pressure on a totally different one. Plus they keep the red army on its toes, attempting to cover every possible angle. (which often they over look something, sometime)

    I have also found them useful for the japanese supporting and protecting blitzing tanks in china and russia.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    They’re too situational to me.

    Japan isn’t going to be buying htem, unless they’re planning to just let America take all of the Pacific in hopes of taking India (which won’t happen either.)

    If Germany’s getting them, then they already own all of Russia and they’re a coups de gras unit.

    If England’s getting them, then the game is over for the axis since they didn’t take London or London was liberated.

    America might get them, but again, then Japan has been neutrallized and America is using them to speed across N. Africa.

    Now, if they could be counted like infantry when loading on transports….

  • I like them for russia to be with armor for my emergency army who can counter 1 side or the other. I just stack 2 army around the marshes with mech and armor and infantry. So if germany push one side or the other ive got some infantry with good amount of mech and armor who can strike. that left one side with some infantry and maybe some art for defense if germany does have another minor army.

  • I go with mix of inf/art round 1 and maybe R2. The key is to go more mobile push if germany try sea lion, then you need to push the front in order to take advantage of germanys allocation of resourses on UK.
    If germany goes barbarossa R2 inf/art combo and then fill in with mechanized/tanks on R3.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Update, currently letting America run rampant over all of the Pacific so I can blitz every possible IPC into Russia as fast as possible.

  • I believe that the key to playing russia properly is to buy artillery. these can improve the many infantry you begin with, and are great for counter attacks. i played germany in a game where the russian player did this, and they managed to attack one of my smaller stacks, leaving not enough manpower for me to take moscow. you also need to buy inf to though. germany is going to kill so many units of yours, that yu need to replenish them so your not left wwith only art. strategy: counterattack the small german forces.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Although I agree some artillery is needed onekid, becareful, It’s a slippery slope.

    Every unit in the game - with very limited exception, defends better than it attacks.

    My german strategy, relies more on forward defense than attack.

    As the axis in enemy territory, the best way to win is to have the russians kill themselves -attacking you- whilst you hold your ground on defense,  It’s easier for the germans to hold a position (Like Ukraine)  with the odd Italian defender, and air support landed, with aa-cover.  Force the Russians to attack, or make weak defensive manuevers.

    It’s slower, but it works in the long run, whilst using a lightning fast transport strike, to threaten britain / take leningrad (Novogorord)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    40 Infantry, 10 Artillery, 10 Armor seems to be very strong for Russia and quite achievable.  It gives you enough infantry to trade, enough armor to stack and enough artillery to threaten.  Another fighter is always good as well, really reinforces the eastern front against Japan!  (18 Infantry, 1 AA Gun, 1 Fighter since the Fighter can zoom out there pretty quickly to help hold some of the territories instead of falling back as fast.)

  • Very intresting and inciteful  🙂

    When I have played as the Soviets, I have always made it a point to secure the Soviets “Northern Flank”. In my build up before war, I make sure I have some offensive units in position to take out Finland asap. I also do this in conjunction with the UK(or US) player who will make moves to secure Norway. I will usually play defensively until I have that flank secured, with one of the western Allies in Norway, and then I’ll really start the march toward Berlin!  :evil:

  • Is a first turn transport buy for russiana good one….to make presure against costal land of germany?..To force germany to attack the russian navy?..Or its a total waste?

  • @Napoleon:

    Is a first turn transport buy for russiana good one….to make presure against costal land of germany?..To force germany to attack the russian navy?..Or its a total waste?

    I dunno, I would think its kind of a waste. I mean, as a gimmick, try it, you might bugger the Germans for a turn with it, but the waste of IPCs on the fleet and the troops, might just kill you in the long run

  • I’ts only 7 ipc for the first turn….just give your little fleet some punch. But i know that it can drive you nowhere :lol:

  • Russia can’t afford to invest in a navy when it’s about to get hit by Germany (in my opinion).  The German air force could eliminate it with little difficulty because Russia didn’t build anything to protect it.  And if it did then Barbarossa is going to go that much more easily.

  • Russia would be better off spending 8ipcs on a dd to clear sz 125 and try and recoup the cost.  This might be possible if Germany doesn’t purchase more ships, but if they do Germany can fight for that sz with subs, while Russia has to buy the more expensive dd’s if they want to clear the sz and collect their NO.

  • No you have to let the western allies handle the navy stuff (in the Atlantic). As Russia I like to buy 1 air unit at least every other round (ftr/tac). In most games Germany does a SL fake (sometimes they go though w/it), and I like to be able threaten the German navy w/air when they come through the Baltic (makes them spend $ on carrier). When they are ready to hit Leningrad, I may just back out to counter attack (kill their ground units), and use the air to end the sea threat. I may not hit the navy, but they at least have to think about it. If I go ahead and nail the German navy in the Baltic, it comes w/guarantee that because I did the dirty deed for the western allies, they will replace my air power (at some point).  R1 I normally buy 1 plane some art/inf for the front (you have to have art to push/delay the Germans, inf alone are not to scary). You also need to be aware of what they can bring at any one tt at the front (seeing many one tt massive army pushes by Germany), and what you can do in a counter attack (if anything).

    You also need inf stacks at front lines (mostly south) to keep Italy from being able to can-opener easily (make sure that the deeper Italy goes that they lose units along the way so when the axis gets closer, Italy isn’t involved. I also like to get my arm up, w/few mech. A Russian mobile force is necessary, especially if you also have Jap lurking in your back field, or you need to swing from north to south (or wherever).

    By all means if your in trouble (maybe to aggressive), don’t worry about that silly 5 IPC NO connected to sz 125 (that you normally don’t get to often anyway). Get the allies involved, either through direct help on red tt’s (air for def etc…) or maybe through landings in Scandinavia, or other parts of Europe. If the Germans, Italians & Japs are all pushing into Russia, then you do what you have to. I’ve seen all six major powers fighting in Russia. Its a BS move, but whatever works. The western allies can be in Russia, and still be hassling the Euro coast, Med, Chinese coast, or DEI (if Jap is pushing hard to Russia (mech/tanks), they are not investing much to rebuild there navy/air-make them pay).

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