Soviet Union Strategy

All infantry is like cutting off your own legs indeed, a bad choice.

When Germany is clearly building for a Sea-Lion, sorta ignoring Russia, i like to show abit of muscle in Russian purchases and moves, hoping the aggression will make Germany nervous. I might buy a bomber or an air unit, together with artillery (great for teaming up with the many infantry thus increasing Russian counter-offensive power)

But i always start with the slow land units, further turns i’ll buy a few mechs and an occasional tank. And infantry, of course. If i feel cocky i’ll buy abit more airforce. have never bought naval units; probably never will.

If Germany goes Barbarossa from turn 1 (i never had this happen) i think i’ll still go with art/inf buys turn 1, the possibility of counter attacks makes that the Axis have to move more cautiously. But if the Axis give me some slack, i’ll gladly take it ;)

Let me ask you something. If all Russia does is fortify and hold up in Moscow, how can the axis win? An all infantry build doesn’t necessarily spell defeat for Russia. Germany/Italy needs 8 Vic Cities to win, so if Russia just gets massed with 70 or so infantry by the time the Germans get to them, and the English do the same, there is no way the axis can win in Europe.

@KillOFzee:

Let me ask you something. If all Russia does is fortify and hold up in Moscow, how can the axis win? An all infantry build doesn’t necessarily spell defeat for Russia. Germany/Italy needs 8 Vic Cities to win, so if Russia just gets massed with 70 or so infantry by the time the Germans get to them, and the English do the same, there is no way the axis can win in Europe.

Well - if Russia is down to a handful IPCs each turn, you start cutting away the “70 or so” infantry because you can kill more than they can replace. You should have Italian and German troops and potentially Japan as well to triple-team them.
The question is then whether you can do so while keeping USA out, but if both Russia and England turtles that hard, Europe/Africa should be pretty much axis controlled for a large income.

tanks, tanks, tanks thats the way to go. 4 tanks-1 fighter turn 1.  5 tanks-1 fighter turn 2, if possible- should be. Then as many tanks as possible. If 1 battle goes bad for germany, russia can counter. Like the idea of moving south to take middle east ipc. Going to try the abandoning novogorod idea next game- something different. Can defend southern rich territories.

Building a navy in the Black sea is a bad idea if Germany goes after Russia. I agree w/JimmyHat that invading Iraq is a bad idea. Let the UK have it. And building all Inf every turn is a bad idea. Russia should build 9 Inf every turn, so you can put 3 Inf in the Nov, Vol and Sukr minor IC’s every turn. Then build 2 Art’s or 1 Tank, 1 Mech w/the extra 10 IPC’s every turn. Or, combination thereof. By Turn 3 or Turn 4, Russia will be able to match Germany Inf for Inf and will have a nice compliment of Inf to Art to Tanks. Then, you put your troops evenly divided into Bel and Nukr. Germany has two options at this point :

• Go south and north w/evenly divided forces - As Russia you put all your troops towards one advance, kill the Germans, then move your forces towards the other stack.
• Go south OR north - As Russia you move all your forces towards the defense of the direction that the Germans are going. If Germany wants to make any headway, they have to attack the big Russian stack at some point, which usually is not good for the Germans, as the German Inf will be attacking @ 1’s and the Russian Inf will be defending @ 2’s. Then, after the Germans are destroyed, you go on the offensive. Most if not all of the German tanks will be gone at this point.

@lamdan:

tanks, tanks, tanks thats the way to go. 4 tanks-1 fighter turn 1.  5 tanks-1 fighter turn 2, if possible- should be. Then as many tanks as possible. If 1 battle goes bad for germany, russia can counter. Like the idea of moving south to take middle east ipc. Going to try the abandoning novogorod idea next game- something different. Can defend southern rich territories.

With all those tanks, wouldn’t it be better to buy some tac bomber instead of fighters? (i mean, if you have counter strikes in mind)

With Russia, I always like to play on the counterattack:

My buys are generally infantry, artillery, fighters and divebombers. At least one plane per turn.

have some of weak buffer territories, just attractive enough to be attacked by the Germans, to have them take the territory with only tank left. Behind that territory you should have an all infantry retaliation force, counterattack with the infantry and artillery and back them up with your planes: voila: new buffer created, one turn bought.

This way USSR will not lose its expensive units and eventually build up a rather impressive airfleet. When the Germans are faced with a western front, prepare for the march to Berlin! :evil:

Has anyone ever considered the following IF the Germans do not threaten SeaLion: UK positions their stack of fighters in Scotland. Once Germany goes for Russia, they move them all to Leningrad and make it a fortress.

@Xandax:

Planing my next global game coming up next month - where I’m properly going to play Allied (my turn).
I’ve got some ideas that I want to send some Russian tanks south, take Persia - use those inf with the tanks to take Iraq and then depending on situation, push into Africa and hopefully surprise Italy in Egypt.
That means by turn 3, I expect to attack Iraq with about 3 tanks, the 2 persian inf and possible a mech or two.
Those 2 2 IPC countries would then help make up for the IPC loss from invading Germans and Japan.

Depending on whether Germany does Sealion or Barbarossa, England will then also place some tanks/mech in South Africa and try and link up with the Russians. If my dice holds - they should be linking up in Egypt in turn 5, while having secured the majority of Africa from Italy leaving only the North contested.

It’ll be a bit of a gamble with dedicating Russian resources to something as offensive as this, but if playing an offensive defense (trying to ping pong the zones in front of moscow, buying time for asian troops to walk home), it could hold out. Especially if Germany goes Sealion which I have a suspicion they will.

How can you attack Iraq on turn 3 when Russia is neutral until turn 4?

37 Ipcs  2mech , 2 tanks , 2 arty, 3 inf.  If Germany does not attack you G3 then buy ships and planes or whatever . Germany just lost the war.

I don’t get how the Soviets can match the Germans “Tank for Tank”. The German economy is usually around: 45-55 whilst the Russian at most 37.

4 inf + 4 art + 1tank (34 IPC), save 3 and buy a second tank every other turn.

Although I like the idea of using planes to hassle…

A) You cannot have as many tanks as Germany round 1.  You just cannot afford it, nor do I think you want it.
B) You dont have enough infantry to start with, you need more! 
C) Infantry move slow as molasses going uphill in a siberian winter, build them early!
D) You do need tanks!  I like round 3 and then to go all tank builds at that point. (I should then have 2 rounds of new infantry + starting infantry to move forward.)
E) I’m not a huge fan of buying aircraft, airbases or naval units for Russia.
E1) 3 Aircraft is all you can field for your fleet in SZ 115 anyway, you have 3, why make more?
E2) Aircraft are expensive!  2 Infantry + 1 Artillery = Fighter, Infantry + 2 Artillery = Tactical Bomber and 2 Armor = Strategic Bomber.  All of those have more utility for Russia, IMHO.  You need to take and hold land, not trade it!  AND!!!  You don’t have an Italy to take the land in front of you so you can reinforce with your planes!
E3) Russia can earn in the 40s for most of the game, Germany earns in the 60s for most of the game, which one can afford luxury units?

IMHO, I have never seen a Russian strat bomber work.  I have seen an Airbase in S. Ukraine work, but only in keeping the Italian fleet dead.  I have not seen an armored unit only purchase strat for Russia work, but I’d love to see someone try it against me! (PS same goes for German armored unit only builds.  Tank dashes are not wise, imho.)

@captainhook:

I don’t get how the Soviets can match the Germans “Tank for Tank”. The German economy is usually around: 45-55 whilst the Russian at most 37.

End Germany 1:  7 Tanks
End Russia 1: 2 Tanks
Result: No match

End Germany 2: 7 Tanks
End Russia 2: 2 Tanks
Result: No match

End Germany 3: 10 Tanks
End Russia 3: 8 Tanks
Result: No match

End Germany 4: 15 Tanks
End Russia 4: 14 Tanks
Result: Match

It can, theoretically, be done.  This assumes Russia goes heavy on the infantry for rounds 1 and 2 and then almost exclusively tanks for rounds 3 and 4.  It also assumes a standard German fleet buy on round 1 and a focus on infantry for the rest of the rounds (ie, starting round 3 Germany buys 3, 5, 5, 5 tanks).

Just to diagram how a typical game MIGHT go.

@Larrie:

How can you attack Iraq on turn 3 when Russia is neutral until turn 4?

I miswrote that - mean turn 3 after war. I want to take Russia through Africa to see if they, double teaming with the English can piggy back on each other. And help being about 5 additional IPCs to Russia to counter the most likely Japan far-east invasion drain.
So the sooner Germany goes into Russia, the faster I can be in Africa, so I’ll try some baiting ;)

@Cmdr:

End Germany 4: 15 Tanks
End Russia 4: 14 Tanks
Result: Match

15 = 14?  Paradox inbound.  :-o

Edit: Also, why is keeping up with tanks so important?  I would think the Russians would want to keep up defensively with infantry.

@Zallomallo:

@Cmdr:

End Germany 4: 15 Tanks
End Russia 4: 14 Tanks
Result: Match

15 = 14?  Paradox inbound.  :-o

Edit: Also, why is keeping up with tanks so important?  I would think the Russians would want to keep up defensively with infantry.

Being defensive in every game is boring and buying little else but inf is too boring :D
It’s fun to try and mix it up a little to see if you can pull out something unexpected on your “enemy” even if it might cost you a game once in a while. ;)

14/15 = 0.933333… which when rounded = 1.

In other words, it’s statistically close enough to even to be called equal.  However, I do agree, that mathematically 14 =/= 15

As for why do they have to be similar?  I believe that was the beginning of the discussion: Russia needs to be able to take and hold ground in this version of the game, not just trade it like in previous versions.  I am not personally ascribing too that theory, just stating where it started from.

Personally, I think Russia needs 2/3rds to 3/4ths the tanks Germany has and India/Africa needs twice as many as Italy has.  Just my perspective on it.  Personally, when it comes to Russia, I am leaning towards:

y(x)=(6 Infantry + 4 Artillery + 2 Armor)k + 3 Fighters + 2 Tactical Bombers

Such that: k is the proportional constant.  That is, if you have 12 infantry, then my formula would state you need 8 artillery and 4 armor.

Note: the above assumes a significant portion of the game has elapsed and that Russia has had the cash to get the extra fighter and tactical bomber due to either an early break into eastern Europe or delayed Japanese involvement or whatever.

Jennifer, couldn’t agree more!  :-D Mostly Inf the first 2 rounds is important. Generally, Russia will have 37 IPC’s to build the first few rounds. So, 9 Inf each of the first two rounds, followed by 2 Art or 1 Tank, 1 Mech is usually a good build. By Rounds 3 or 4, you can build a few more Art, since the Germany forces are right next to Nov and Sukr and you can usually throw in a Mech and/or Tank or two because by then you have enough Inf that can soak up losses.

37 IPC = 11 Infantry, 1 Artillery.  That gives me a jump on the Infantry to Artillery/Armor ratios and allows me to move slow moving infantry up to the front while Germany’s playing with France and England. (Even if you don’t go Sea Lion, Germany’s playing with the British fleet for at least that first round.)

Second round I probably still have 37 IPC, unless Japan’s player is really inexperienced, in which case, I have 49 IPC, but let’s assume 37 IPC, for argument’s sake:

I no longer have 3 rounds to get into position before expecting a German attack, I now have 2.  (because on Round 4, Germany’s going to attack, probably.)  I cannot get units from Volgorod or Muskva to E. Poland, Baltic States or Bessarabia any longer, nor can I get them to Belarus, N. Ukraine, S. Ukraine or Novgorod (from Muskva/Volgorod remember) thus, getting units that travel one per turn is no longer as beneficial, so I’ll ease off those units a bit:

37 IPC = 5 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 3 Armor.  Note:  This allows me to put slow moving units into Novgorod and S. Ukraine where they are in position, while Armor can go in Muskva where they can get into position with the first round of builds!

Round 3:  I’ll probably still have 37 IPC, I am still assuming Japan does not attack:

I’ll get 6 Artillery (24 IPC) + 2 Armor.  The armor can move in quickly from Muskva while the Artillery (again) maximizes my factories in Novgorod and S. Ukraine.  All this extra artillery makes my infantry stacks (that should be standing at about 41 Infantry) a significant threat to any German stack.

By the start of Round 4, the Russians should have: 38 Infantry, 10 Artillery, 7 Armor and 2 Mechanized Infantry on the front lines, with which they can support with 2 Fighters, 1 Tactical Bomber from Novgorod to attack a German stack.  (Assumes: 1 Infantry in Baltic States, 1 Infantry in E. Poland and 1 Infantry in Bessarabia as a picket line; also assumes the force is split between Novgorod, Belarus, N. Ukraine and S. Ukraine with Novgorod and S. Ukraine containing 3 artillery each, the rest split between Belarus and N. Ukraine).  There should also be at least an AA Gun present, though, I would have 2 present, one in the north, one in the south.

Compare that to all infantry builds.  For one, most of your units are still walking to the front lines since you have to build at least some back in Moscow/Stalingrad.  For another, you have SIGNIFICANTLY less offensive punch, meaning German stacks are safer.  Now, just because you CAN destroy the infantry stack does not mean you SHOULD, but wouldn’t you want the possibility of doing it?

Essentially, if you stage as discussed, Russia can pose a serious health risk to the German economy while maintaining the Russian one, and that’s what you want!  With England harrying the German navy, encouraging them to keep planes back in W. Germany and putting more ships in the water, Russia can easily out grow the German army in strength - if you can hold them out of red territories for a few extra rounds!

Jennifer - I especially like the six artillery for Novgorod/Ukraine - a nice purchase for R3. I’ll be trying this.

Personally, I like being 2-1 with Armor/Mech Infantry also. If I have 8 Russian Armor, I want 4 Mech Infantry to roll along with it. Not much punch from the Mech, but a great mobile offense/defense combo.

I’m in the middle of a game right now with a 10-6 combo of Armor/Mech… with nice Infantry/Artillery combos on the front (I like 3 Art for every 6 Inf), Germany doesn’t much like the idea of moving forward…