German True Neutral Crush Counter to USA 100% Pacifc?



  • I just played a game where my opponent did a true neutral crush to try and win the game.  He went after Australia and the money islands with Japan and went through Turkey with Germany in an attempt to sack India.  I was able to stop him before he got the needed victory cities and he conceded but it did get me thinking.

    My idea was to try the true neutral crush as Germany next time but remove the going for India gimmick and instead head for Russia as well as boosting my economy.  When Germany does a true neutral crush G2 taking out Sweden, Turkey and Spain not only does it boost their IPCS right away but puts them in position to go for 3 five point bonuses fairly quickly.  The Causcus, German in Egypt, and Stalingrad are all double very quickly if the Germans move their Army south into Russia as well as send fast units through Turkey.  Also the Germans can get quick access to another 10 IPCs by taking Iraq, Persia, and Northwest Persia.  If all these realistic objectives are acomplished Germany will have over 80 IPCS if not more to spend when USA is done maiming Japan.  Not to mention Eqypt will all ready be in Axis hands and Italy should at least be in the 30’s.

    Russia may take a little longer to kill with Germany committing a small force to lock up points in the middle east. Yet with the huge Germany Economy shouldn’t they be able to then finish Moscow, while Italy starts pumping Infantry in Europe to defend it for when America is done with Japan?

    What do you think?



  • Frank, haven’t run into a game yet with any neutral crush but it is a possiblity for and endgame tactic I think in order to sack the quick victory.  What makes it possible is that if you attack a couple of the true neutrals your opponent gets the others neutrals on their side but they still have to go ACTIVATE them.  In the endgame their may not be that kind of time to use of them by that point.  I’m waiting for the perfect time in an endgame to try.

    Hot spots for doing this are:

    Allies: Spain for sure, maybe Sweden
    Axis: Turkey for sure

    I don’t see this being initiated by any other neutral tt though- maybe Saudi Arabia but I doubt it.



  • @Frank:

    I just played a game where my opponent did a true neutral crush to try and win the game.  He went after Australia and the money islands with Japan and went through Turkey with Germany in an attempt to sack India.  I was able to stop him before he got the needed victory cities and he conceded but it did get me thinking.
       
    My idea was to try the true neutral crush as Germany next time but remove the going for India gimmick and instead head for Russia as well as boosting my economy.  When Germany does a true neutral crush G2 taking out Sweden, Turkey and Spain not only does it boost their IPCS right away but puts them in position to go for 3 five point bonuses fairly quickly.

    It will give you some IPC’s but unless you’re a dice-ninja, it will cost you more in units, i think.

    If you want to take Sweden + Spain + Turkey you are facing (totally) 20 inf, for a reward of 7 IPC’s (a turn), not counting your losses (you can count for about 8 enemy hits)
    Also, how many units can you get to Turkey in turn 2? Beating 8 units sounds not that simple.

    Also with Spain you’ll be creating a weak point in your Axis defence, since it is very easy to reach with the USA (and once they get a hold of it, they can put a minor IC there as well).

    Another thing, if your Turkey attack fails and Greece is not yet taken,  1 Turk can walk in and activate them.

    The Causcus, German in Egypt, and Stalingrad are all double very quickly if the Germans move their Army south into Russia as well as send fast units through Turkey.  Also the Germans can get quick access to another 10 IPCs by taking Iraq, Persia, and Northwest Persia.

    How do you get to 10 IPC’s? I count only 4, and Persia will be british before you can reach it, so…

    Saoudi Arabia is another 2 IPC’s but UK will probably beating you to it as well. Together with Afghanistan that is another 6 allied inf for free. And then there is Angola and mozambique (2 ipc’s, 4 free INF), and probably no Sea-Lion threat, so UK can invest in South Africa. Good luck, Italy 😉

    Edit: as for the influence of USA recruiting in South America, i guess it won’t make much difference. Mongolia could become interesting as well…



  • @special:

    Another thing, if your Turkey attack fails and Greece is not yet taken,  1 Turk can walk in and activate them.

    Is that an Alpha2 thing? Because in the rules for normal it states that if you fail to capture an unfriendly neutral, that the enemy defending (activated) units can’t move



  • @Xandax:

    @special:

    Another thing, if your Turkey attack fails and Greece is not yet taken,  1 Turk can walk in and activate them.

    Is that an Alpha2 thing? Because in the rules for normal it states that if you fail to capture an unfriendly neutral, that the enemy defending (activated) units can’t move

    Ahh yes, i forgot, Russia would have to go there to enlist those units before they can move (i think).
    So ok, no Greece then 😉



  • G2? Also, how are you attacking Turkey without taking Greece?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Through italian transports obviously!



  • 7. Collect 2 IPCs per turn for each of the following three territories that Germany controls: Iraq, Persia and Northwest Persia. Theme: Access to strategic oil reserves.

    These bonuses make the middle east account for 10 points rather than 4.

    It is possible to take Turkey G2 if Italy takes Greece but probably too costly because it would have to be done with tanks and the Air Force.  That is what my opponent did in the game we played.  So Turkey probably falls G3 then instead.

    I think Germany could still build the Baltic Fleet G1 and keep Britan in check after the Air Force is used with subs to waste most of the Royal Navy.  After that UK will be not be bothering Germany any time soon with the US engaged with Japan early game.  Remember my theory was really to use this to counter a 100% Japan maim by USA.  I wouldn’t want to use it in a game where US is heading to Europe first.

    I think Italy would be doing rather well with Germany able to help them out in the Middle East by going through Turkey.  Also it would expand the German Economy.



  • @Frank:

    7. Collect 2 IPCs per turn for each of the following three territories that Germany controls: Iraq, Persia and Northwest Persia. Theme: Access to strategic oil reserves.

    These bonuses make the middle east account for 10 points rather than 4.

    Uh? Is this an Alpha2 NO?

    Even so, you’re forgetting your opponents get to play as well, the INF from W.India walks in persia turn 2 (the turn that in your plan you obliterate Turkey) receiving 2 units. Since it is global, it won’t take long for india to take Afghanistan for another 4 extra INF.

    About taking Turkey, with how much do you attack them in G2? (or G3)

    I think Germany could still build the Baltic Fleet G1 and keep Britan in check after the Air Force is used with subs to waste most of the Royal Navy.  After that UK will be not be bothering Germany any time soon with the US engaged with Japan early game.  Remember my theory was really to use this to counter a 100% Japan maim by USA.  I wouldn’t want to use it in a game where US is heading to Europe first.

    Understandable (and i kinda forgot the 100%pacific aspect).
    1 problem though, if all this has to take place (G2 for example), that means USA has played 1 turn. An all Pacific strat will only really show after a couple of turns, unless the whole game is an announced 100% USA Pacific strat.

    As soon as this neutral crush starts, it’s a whole new game and it won’t take long for USA to re-focus.
    So yes… as a Pacific Strat counter, this will definitely work, in fact this will be a huge magnet! Yet i am not sure the Axis will be better off this way 😉



  • Well if it at least focues the USA to focus on heading to Europe instead of Japan then that would give the Axis an opening to win the game in the Pacifc.

    I think if USA just decided to head for Japan anyway that the Axis would win the game in Europe under this scenario.



  • @Frank:

    Well if it at least focues the USA to focus on heading to Europe instead of Japan then that would give the Axis an opening to win the game in the Pacifc.

    I think if USA just decided to head for Japan anyway that the Axis would win the game in Europe under this scenario.

    I think so too (would take a not so smart USA player for that, imho)

    By the way, i just noticed a naval base in Spain would serve 5 seazones! It’s like a pimped Gibraltar  😮
    (and the possibilities of an airbase are great as well, complete coverage of the Med and most of the North Sea. As Axis you really don’t want to give Spain to the USA!)



  • You are correct that Spain in Allied hands is bad news…  There are consequences to every out of the box strategy.  If the Allies make a push for Spain Germany may have to go down there with some Armor and Planes and take it back.  If the Allies really drop a bunch of guys there that Germany can’t take it back then it just might mean that Japan will have enough time to score the victory in the Pacific.

    I am starting to think there is not a convential road to victory for the Axis in Global Alpha +2 like in say Spring 1942.  That game was all about killing Russia.  While killing Russia is certianly nice and mostly still neccesary in Alpha +2 it in and of itself will not win you the game. If France is liberated in the meantime or Italy is defeated in Egypt then getting that last victory can be out of reach if Axis timing in finishing Russia is off even a little bit.

    While I am not saying that attacking Neutrals is neccesarly the best way to go, I am believing more and more that the Axis need to really think outside the box to win.



  • Thinking outside the box is a good thing. And leads to interesting results, even if finally they don’t work.
    Please keep doing it 🙂


  • Customizer

    @Frank:

    I am starting to think there is not a convential road to victory for the Axis in Global Alpha +2 like in say Spring 1942.  That game was all about killing Russia.  While killing Russia is certianly nice and mostly still neccesary in Alpha +2 it in and of itself will not win you the game. If France is liberated in the meantime or Italy is defeated in Egypt then getting that last victory can be out of reach if Axis timing in finishing Russia is off even a little bit.

    Yeah, I think Global 40 is the first game where defeating Russia is not a game winner for Germany.  In previous games, it seemed to me that once Germany took out Russia, it was just about over for the Allies.  Germany just had too much money for the Allies to stop them.  There are exceptions, like if Germany concentrated so much on taking Russia that they left Berlin absurdly weak and UK or USA slips in with a relatively small invasion force and takes it.  I have seen this happen.  UK takes Berlin, USA lands troops to back them up and most of Germany’s hardware is too far away trying to take Moscow.
    Still, in Global 40, there are a lot more variables.  Even if Moscow falls, so could Rome and Germany has Allies right on their doorstep, not to mention losing a precious victory city.


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