Alpha 2 Sea Lion


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    There is a viable strategy that entails abandoning England.

    I have not tried, it, but I have heard of it.


  • Customizer

    Turn 3 can be stopped.  A turn 4 requires UK to hit and fade Scotland.

    Germany should have 12 TT, not 13, though.



  • @jim010:

    @Young:

    @edfactor:

    Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

    I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

    Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

    I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.



  • @Young:

    @jim010:

    @Young:

    @edfactor:

    Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

    I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

    Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

    I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

    I’m sure they have cost a lot to the Germans too, in units. If you’re lucky even some planes. If you give UK away, you’ll have zero money as well, and more units, but Germany will also lose a lot less, which is bad for Russia.



  • @Young:

    I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

    They may be true but I believe that if the UK can really bleed Germany enough in Sea Lion that it increases the chance greatly that the Allies will win the Game.  If the UK just does fully defend itself then Germany will win Sea Lion will the Air Force intact and with a ton of troops sitting in the London.  This makes taking London back for the US a very tough job.



  • As the UK, I personally like liberating when Russia is distracting Germany rather than defending when I’m all alone. That’s just my strategy preference.


  • Customizer

    @Young:

    @jim010:

    @Young:

    @edfactor:

    Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

    I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

    Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

    I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

    That shouldn’t happen.  Odds of German success if UK goes all in is less than 40% in Alpha 2+.  UK got unlucky in your game.



  • @jim010:

    @Young:

    @jim010:

    @Young:

    @edfactor:

    Is there some build besides solid infantry that will stop sealion?

    I spend my money in Quebec while I still have some. I than prepare and execute a plan to liberate London with the Americans, I Usually buy warships in the first turn or two including an aircraft carrier to retreat my fighters on, I call it operation Albatross.

    Why?  You can hold UK.  Why give it to the Germans?

    I have seen 2 games where the UK spent all their resources trying to defend sea lion and when they eventually lost it, they were left with zero money and very little units on the Europe board. Needless to say that their game experience for the next 7 hours wasn’t much fun, I don’t want that to be me.

    That shouldn’t happen.  Odds of German success if UK goes all in is less than 40% in Alpha 2+.  UK got unlucky in your game.

    You are right in one case (dice rolls were horrible). Point is, I need to play in more games to personally see the UK successfully defend sea lion (of course, games where I am not playing the UK). The problem is a buddy of mine in my one on one group has adopted the same strategy from me.



  • so the invasion of britian is possible
    what do japan and italy do?
    (italy taking egypt is impossible, i don’t get how anybody can do it)
    what bout US counterattacks and the massive russian army?


  • Customizer

    My reasons for setting up for Sealion just in case UK is not defended properly in Alpha 2.

    1. You are wiping out 25+ UK ground and air units for ~20 German ground units. That’s a good exchange.

    2. You are going to have to fight these units when they land in France, or wherever else they are going, so why NOT kill them right there in the UK?

    3. UK now has limited options or none for most of (or the rest of) the game.  That counts for something.

    4. In addition to the first 3 turns of the UK being wiped out, at least the next few turns as well are gone.  Assuming the Allies take UK back right away, they are still missing ~$25 per turn that he is out of the game.

    5. Also, you do capture UK’s ~$30, so that repenishes 10 inf lost in the battle for you right on turn 4. So your losses aren’t really ~20 ground units, but more like ~10.

    6. The $13 for owning UK every turn also helps pay back the investment made in taking UK out.

    7. So does the absence of a need to defend France (which is SO much easier now).

    8. As for taking Russia, you are now outspending Russia 2 to 1.  You WILL catch up fast, especially with the ~$90 you have to spend on turn 4.

    1. And those 12 TTs should not be a one time use.  They should ferry inf and art from your factories right up to Baltic States.  That is getting them there from Germany 1 turn early, and 2 turns early from West Germany.  That also makes up for losses from UK.

    2. And Leningrad would need to be defended properly against 24 ground units from those TTs or be abandoned.

    3. Taking UK back?  US liberates UK.  UK goes next and collects ~$24.  Germany goes next and retakes London with 12 TTs and takes UK $ again?  I’ve done that - it was pretty funny.  Besides, I’d rather defend in London where he is not a direct threat than in France.



  • So, I just attempted sea lion and got my butt kicked so hard, my unborn grand children will have frequent nose bleeds for life. I guess I needed that to become a little more respectful towards a good sea lion defense. Cheers.


  • Customizer

    @Young:

    So, I just attempted sea lion and got my butt kicked so hard, my unborn grand children will have frequent nose bleeds for life. I guess I needed that to become a little more respectful towards a good sea lion defense. Cheers.

    I repeat, Sealion is a go ONLY if UK improperly defends against it.

    Here are some numbers for you

    Turn 3 Sealion highest numbers for both sides (UK pulling out of Med)

    Germany 12 inf, 4 art, 8 tanks, 5 fht, 5 tac, 1 bmb, 1 BB, 1 CA

    vs

    UK 25 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks, 7 fht, 1 tac

    Sealion success 15%

    If UK still attacks Italy, take away 2 fht, 1 tac, 1 inf, 1 tank - then odds rise to 80% and survivng with 8 units on average.

    This can be tinkered with by landing 5 units 1 AA in Scotland on turn 2.

    Could also land turn 3 with 24 units and hit London on turn 4.  In this case, UK would hit Scotland for 2 rounds and pull back.  It would be bad luck for the UK, however, if they got stuck in Scotland by actually winning there (as happened to me once).



  • I agree w/Jim. SeaLion is hard if defended correctly. Plus try this Turn 1 move w/the US, which allows the US to get to SZ91 on Turn 1 w/a whole lot of stuff to take the UK back, IF Germany succeeds w/SeaLion. Or, get back to Hawaii/SZ26 on Turn 2 to go after the Japanese.

    My friend Hobo Smasher came up w/this.

    USA Turn 1

    Builds:

    4 Trans, 1 Inf, 1 Arm, 1 NB

    Non Coms:

    1 Inf, 1 Art from Eus to Trans in SZ101, move to SZ64, drop off in Smx
    1 CC in SZ101 to SZ64
    1 Mech, 1 Arm from Cus to Smx
    2 Inf, 1 Art from Wus to Cus
    2 Inf from Haw to Trans in SZ26, move to SZ64, drop off in Smx
    1CC, 1DD, 1SS from SZ26 to SZ64
    1BB, 1CC, 1DD, 1AC, 1 Trans from SZ10 to SZ64
    1 FTR, 1Tac from SZ10 to Eus
    1 FTR from Wus to Eus
    2 FTR from Haw to SZ64
    1 FTR from Phi to Gua
    1 DD, 1SS from SZ35 to SZ54
    1 SBR from Cus to Wus

    Build:

    4 Trans in SZ101
    1 Inf, 1 Arm in Cus
    1 NB in Pan


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    With the relative ease of taking London and Calcutta (in opposition to Sydney and Muskva) it seems better to go after England

    But beyond that, if you take London, you negate all of England’s income, even if you cannot take the territories!  Worse yet, Calcutta can take stuff and can liberate stuff on the Atlantic map, but can never collect for it, so you’ve effectively, permanently ended England.

    Just my current thoughts, I reserve the right to change my mind with little to no notice and for whatever reason I so choose. (Woman’s perogative.)


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