Empires: Global War based on early start of Great War circa 1898?



  • Alright so I was reading the article in the WW2 History section of the forums, the one about the U.S not being a superpower or not before WW2. Imperious leader gave the suggestion of an Axis and Allies ruled game set in like 1900. This really stuck to me, and I have been toying with the idea since. I think having a game set roughly in 1898 with all the major Colonial and World powers to play as would be sick. Relive the Spanish American War or have WW1 start in a different way than history. Form your own alliances that make a different game every time. What do you guys think of a game of this type? And what are your ideas for it then?



  • That sounds amazing. I would totally buy it if I had the money and my parents let me buy it.



  • @De:

    Alright so I was reading the article in the WW2 History section of the forums, the one about the U.S not being a superpower or not before WW2. Imperious leader gave the suggestion of an Axis and Allies ruled game set in like 1900. This really stuck to me, and I have been toying with the idea since. I think having a game set roughly in 1898 with all the major Colonial and World powers to play as would be sick. Relive the Spanish American War or have WW1 start in a different way than history. Form your own alliances that make a different game every time. What do you guys think of a game of this type? And what are your ideas for it then?

    That would be awesome but it would need new sculpts for units…


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @De:

    What do you guys think of a game of this type? And what are your ideas for it then?

    It’s a concept with a lot of good potential.  The late 19th and early (pre-WWI) 20th centuries were an interesting period from an empire-building point of view:

    • The Spanish-American War resulted in the U.S. inheriting some sizable pieces of the Spanish Empire at various places around the world, like the Philippines.

    • Japan was laying the foundations of its own empire, notably via the first Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War.

    • Germany, another imperial late-comer, was seeking to carve out its own “place in the sun” and acquiring colonial possessions in Africa and the Pacific.

    • A number of colonial crises took place in the years leading up to WWI, for example the Agadir Crisis (a classic example of gunboat diplomacy).

    I think a game covering the period from, say, 1898 to 1913, rather than being set in a specific year, might be the best approach.  You might want to look at the history of the period and see what other international conflicts and colonial wars took place, and decide on that basis the start and end dates of the game and the major events it would include.



  • @12doze12:

    @De:

    Alright so I was reading the article in the WW2 History section of the forums, the one about the U.S not being a superpower or not before WW2. Imperious leader gave the suggestion of an Axis and Allies ruled game set in like 1900. This really stuck to me, and I have been toying with the idea since. I think having a game set roughly in 1898 with all the major Colonial and World powers to play as would be sick. Relive the Spanish American War or have WW1 start in a different way than history. Form your own alliances that make a different game every time. What do you guys think of a game of this type? And what are your ideas for it then?

    That would be awesome but it would need new sculpts for units…

    Yes it would need new sculpts. But also a reworked unit system. Because planes and tanks werent invented yet really. They would be weapon developments likely. All the units people would start out with would be infantry, artillery, and cavalry, along with all sea units minus aircraft carriers ( which could be a weapon development after planes). Combat would be very lame with just those land units. Perhaps specific types of seige artillery guns and machine gun units could be included. Because machine guns wrecked havoc in WW1.

    Another thought is that of factories and industrial complexes. These would be featured in home territories of the power, but realistically in 1898 (Or in WW2 for that matter), production facilities could not be created in far off colonial islands in the pacific.
    @CWO:

    @De:

    What do you guys think of a game of this type? And what are your ideas for it then?

    It’s a concept with a lot of good potential.  The late 19th and early (pre-WWI) 20th centuries were an interesting period from an empire-building point of view:

    • The Spanish-American War resulted in the U.S. inheriting some sizable pieces of the Spanish Empire at various places around the world, like the Philippines.

    • Japan was laying the foundations of its own empire, notably via the first Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War.

    • Germany, another imperial late-comer, was seeking to carve out its own “place in the sun” and acquiring colonial possessions in Africa and the Pacific.

    • A number of colonial crises took place in the years leading up to WWI, for example the Agadir Crisis (a classic example of gunboat diplomacy).

    I think a game covering the period from, say, 1898 to 1913, rather than being set in a specific year, might be the best approach.  You might want to look at the history of the period and see what other international conflicts and colonial wars took place, and decide on that basis the start and end dates of the game and the major events it would include.

    Well I know the war between America and Spain would be a factor, also the Boer War in South Africa. I dont know. I think it would be fun just to have players play things out but with specific objectives that historically mirroed what the nation should be doing at the time. Im not making a game for this, though it is a great concept, so dont get your hopes up. I will be exploring the idea though. And yes your right about the time frame. It would be better to have it set during a period, rather than a specific date.

    For teams I was thinking:
    Spain
    Netherlands
    Belgium
    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Ottoman Empire
    Russia
    Britian
    France
    America
    Japan
    China
    Italy
    Portugal


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    For teams I was thinking:
    Spain
    Netherlands
    Belgium
    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Ottoman Empire
    Russia
    Britain
    France
    America
    Japan

    China
    Italy
    Portugal

    I would make the ones in bold ( 10) the primary nations, others minor

    Now what units would you have?

    Lets just start with land units… (7)

    Infantry
    Infantry kneeling with Machine gun ( entrenched infantry)
    Artillery
    Cavalry
    Rail Gun  ( tech)
    Bi-plane ( tech)
    Tank ( tech)
    what else?



  • @Imperious:

    For teams I was thinking:
    Spain
    Netherlands
    Belgium
    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Ottoman Empire
    Russia
    Britain
    France
    America
    Japan

    China
    Italy
    Portugal

    I would make the ones in bold ( 10) the primary nations, others minor

    Now what units would you have?

    Lets just start with land units… (7)

    Infantry
    Infantry kneeling with Machine gun ( entrenched infantry)
    Artillery
    Cavalry
    Rail Gun  ( tech)
    Bi-plane ( tech)
    Tank ( tech)
    what else?

    True, they should be minors, I thought that it would be fun to have all the major colonial powers, but this is better.

    Bi-Plane Bomber (Tech)
    Fortress (Sea and Land ones)
    Armored Car (Speed of Calvary like 2 spaces with a higher attack. Could be a Tech or Not)
    Trucks (Tech?)
    Veteran Infantry?
    Dreadnought (Battleship)
    Cruiser
    Torpedo Boat (Destroyer)
    Submarine
    Ironclad (Has an attack of 1, but is cheap to build or somthing maybe?)
    Transport
    Aircraft Carrier (Tech after planes are developed)

    These unit ideas get me excited and wishing this game was real 😞


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Wait: slow down just establish the land and air units, then the values

    then naval, so on.

    Need somebody to research the economic potency of these nations around 1900 or at worst 1914 ( use GDP)

    Then we need research on who had what and where

    etc… Research first, then design



  • @Imperious:

    Wait: slow down just establish the land and air units, then the values

    then naval, so on.

    Need somebody to research the economic potency of these nations around 1900 or at worst 1914 ( use GDP)

    Then we need research on who had what and where

    etc… Research first, then design

    We need to know if he is able to make those sculpts and if he as the time


  • Sponsor 2017 '13 '11 '10

    If you make one set of generic sculpts and just have a color change, it will be a lot cheaper to produce pieces. More molds… A lot more money!


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Dreadnought battleships could be a tech upgrade from pre-Dreadnought ironclads.  In real life, they were introduced in 1906.  Good idea to have armoured cars rather than tanks, since tanks didn’t exist until WWI.

    “War: Age of Imperialism” from Eagle Games has some reasonably decent plastic ironclads (complete with a ramming spur at the bow), and various types colonial-looking troops with pith helmets and so forth, plus a few native horsemen and Zulu-type warriors in the role of hostile local populations.  These sculpts might be fun to use for test purposes in your prototype game.  You can buy the miniatures in boxed sets, separately from the game itself (see the Eagle Games website for details: http://www.eaglegames.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=imperialism).



  • @CWO:

    Dreadnought battleships could be a tech upgrade from pre-Dreadnought ironclads.  In real life, they were introduced in 1906.  Good idea to have armoured cars rather than tanks, since tanks didn’t exist until WWI.

    “War: Age of Imperialism” from Eagle Games has some reasonably decent plastic ironclads (complete with a ramming spur at the bow), and various types colonial-looking troops with pith helmets and so forth, plus a few native horsemen and Zulu-type warriors in the role of hostile local populations.  These sculpts might be fun to use for test purposes in your prototype game.  You can buy the miniatures in boxed sets, separately from the game itself (see the Eagle Games website for details: http://www.eaglegames.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=imperialism).

    Yes I took a look at those and they look decent. They only have one ship unit though. And I DONT think I have the capability to make plastic units. Unless someone else wants to make units (Coachofmany? Field Marshal Games?). The best thing I can think of is to get those Eagle games minatures combined with axis and allies Naval and air units and some others, paint them and hope they look nice.
    I will TRY to make a map though. Any one know good programs for that? Or a way to modify that 1939 map thats floating around? I would like to make a nice map with somthing other than the paint program on my computer…


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Infantry
    Infantry kneeling with Machine gun ( entrenched infantry) Note: this can be a counter and not a ‘piece’
    Artillery
    Cavalry
    Rail Gun  ( tech)
    Bi-plane ( tech)
    Tank ( tech)
    what else?

    just stick to land units and air, then naval.



  • @Imperious:

    Infantry
    Infantry kneeling with Machine gun ( entrenched infantry) Note: this can be a counter and not a ‘piece’
    Artillery
    Cavalry
    Rail Gun  ( tech)
    Bi-plane ( tech)
    Tank ( tech)
    what else?

    just stick to land units and air, then naval.

    Part of me really thinks that Armored Cars should be included, due to their presence in some armies before World War 1. But this also might add complication.

    @Imperious:

    Wait: slow down just establish the land and air units, then the values

    then naval, so on.

    Need somebody to research the economic potency of these nations around 1900 or at worst 1914 ( use GDP)

    Then we need research on who had what and where

    etc… Research first, then design

    http://axisandallies.wikia.com/wiki/GDP_1913
    Found this helpful for GDP. 1900 GDP was hard to find, and I could only locate some statistics about Eurpoean specific GDP per capita from 1900. Now unit placement, we should have it as 1898 right?
    Using this date, we can easily do American and Spanish set-ups due to the onset of the Spanish American war and battles that chronicle naval and ground strength. For the rest, its gonna take a little time. We know about the Japanese-Russian War, so that adds some help, and we also know about the sramble for Africa where lots of European soldiers were in Africa. This is a good start.



  • How many years would it cover, till the great war or beyond?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Ok armored cars but as a military unit, not really used before 1900.

    I think the piece inventory should be minimal…something like MB AA…generic pieces for all except infantry ( some infantry using the same molds as well)

    What would the values be on the land units??

    Armored cars should be tech based unit.

    The game should start about 1890-1895, but depends on what was available. it should look like WW1, but be also before all the inventions like planes.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)

    Thinking use 1890 figures and divide by 15 to get IPC totals.



  • If you were feeling industrious, couldnt you make it go up to at least ww2, and make it kind of like sid meiers civilization? If it went past that you could use for some of the more modern units a&a pieces and for futuristic units pieces from games like starwars risk and risk 2210.



  • @Imperious:

    Ok armored cars but as a military unit, not really used before 1900.

    I think the piece inventory should be minimal…something like MB AA…generic pieces for all except infantry ( some infantry using the same molds as well)

    What would the values be on the land units??

    Armored cars should be tech based unit.

    The game should start about 1890-1895, but depends on what was available. it should look like WW1, but be also before all the inventions like planes.

    True. That would most likely be easiest. I think we should make a 1898 Scenario, but also an WW1 scenario for the game if there is time. This could add massive versatility.
    @Imperious:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)

    Thinking use 1890 figures and divide by 15 to get IPC totals.

    Yes I did see this on Wikipedia, but it didnt include places like Turkey or Japan for 1890. And when I divided those numbers by 15, I got huge numbers. France had 19,758 for GNP, divided by 15 I got 1,317. Did I do this wrong Im guessing? Its gonna be tricky transferring total GDP into IPCs. But looking at the numbers I have a hunch the U.S and U.K are gonna be the powerhouses.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yes on the GDP ill have to find out the magic number. I found the formula on how Larry made his games but my notes have to be located. I was relying on memory and 15 stuck in my head. Obviously its not 15.

    Ill post tomorrow on this



  • Did you ever find that specific number Imperious Leader?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    based on 1890 IPC should be:
    United Kingdom 29
    Germany 26
    Russia/USSR 21
    France 20
    Austria-Hungary 15
    Italy  9
    Spain  5
    Belgium 4
    Netherlands  2
    Switzerland 2
    Sweden 2
    Portugal 1
    Romania 1
    Denmark  1
    Norway 1
    Finland 1
    Bulgaria 1
    Greece 1
    Serbia  0

    Japan ?

    USA?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I found my notes. The magic number is: 16.58 divided by GDP based on 1990 dollars.

    I can’t find my notes on why this number came about.

    So USA in 1941 is basically 800 GDP, which is 48 IPC

    Germany in 1941 is about 485, or 29 IPC



  • Alright, so IPC ammounts are taken care of essentially.
    For U.S, China, and Japan I would use maybe the GDP from 1900 on the table with 1960 dollars on wikipedia. Probably as close as we will get. And I dont know what to do for the Ottomans.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    well we got to do better than that. What are the numbers in 1960 dollars from 1890?


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