2 turn system: How to re-balance the game with such a system



  • My friends and I REALLY want to use the 2 turn system for our game (for a number of reasons, including time saver, etc). This would clearly favor the Allies, considering there are more of them to gang up on the Axis.

    The poll relates to what we would need to do to re-balance the game with such rules. Obviously one can only speculate, but your input would be appreciated!



  • I think the Axis have to have good rolls , a combined strategy to single out an opponent and crush them,  move on to the next one or two.  Take out the Capitals as soon as possible and go for the money, and hope the Allies make more mistakes,  Time is against them if it goes on too long you are probably doomed.
        I love it, I’ll take the odds any time that’s what makes this game great!  Win loose or draw from either side.



  • Mantlefan, I have played several games this way, but they always included a number of national advantages built in, so it is hard for me to say how this would play out with none, which is exactly what we are proposing to do.

    But yes, in most games the Italians become very strong, almost too strong, and the UK usually gets trounced in the Med right off the back. We had anticipated this strength in our rules and made Russia quite a bit stronger, and that seemed to help balance things considerably.


  • Customizer

    Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a “2 turn system”?  I have not heard of this before.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    All Axis, then all Allies played together in groups.


  • Customizer

    Oooh!  That really would benefit Italy a lot.  Being able to strike at UK first would really improve their chances of advancing in Africa and the Med much quicker.  Plus, it seems to me like this would be an overall boost for the Axis.  Yeah, there are more Allied powers to try and come back after the Axis, but remember that the two strongest Allies, USA and USSR, are still neutral for 3 rounds.  It seems to me like if the Axis moved as a group for the first three rounds, they could get enough ahead to nullify any buildup that USA and USSR could accomplish.  They might even gain enough IPCs to nullify the USA’s huge income and overcome America quicker.

    By the way, thanks for clarifying IL.



  • whats a Bidding System?  😐


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The weaker side gets a number of extra IPC to place units on board. So you are bidding that you can either still win by gifting x to the other person, or taking y for yourself.

    players start by alternating statements: I’ll take the allies and give you x IPC, then the other person says ok or Ill take the allies and give you a larger IPC gift. Alternatively, you can say ill play axis and do it with 5 IPC, then the other side bids like 4, then you accept of shoot for 3, etc…


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I would say it’s fine as is.

    If anything it groesly Benefits the Axis is the first few turns - simply because the Italians would move before the British now.

    In Later Turns perhaps, it will benefit the allies - especially in the Pacific.

    With this kind of Financial boost early though, and 3 extra planes / possible extra italian ships in range of london.  I see a garunteed fall of London every game.  And a struggling Russia after that.

    You should also always see an almost FLAWLESS Mediterranean Success to start…



  • @Gargantua

    Saying its fine as it is doesnt help any, as we (and others out there I believe) prefer to play with this system in our group. Im not asking your group to change, or Larry to change it either, I just want to know from veteran players, like yourself, how you think it would play out, theoretically, that way we could make appropriate tweaks.

    Your point concerning Italy is a good one. I am open to suggestions on how to prevent England from falling so easily.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    You have to change the setup if you use this turn sequence. But that is the goal anyway because the setup is not based on anything historical.

    The turn sequence saves about 35% of the time playing and kills much of the down time that is wasted waiting on somebody else.



  • Wait, so all Allies go at the exact same time all around the board, and the same with the Axis?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    axis first then allies.



  • Imp. Leader,

    While a new setup may be ideal, I simply don’t have that kind of time. My question for you is what would you change to the current setup to balance it out? I mean if your group you play with said they wanted to do this, but they asked you to propose a few changes to the original starting pieces, or house rules, etc., what would you propose?

    It has been pointed out that Italy would be too strong (would ensure a fall of London) and Japan would be too weak (too many Allies in Pacific). Perhaps a few changes should be made to address these concerns? Thoughts…?



  • @Imperious:

    axis first then allies.

    Yes but all of the axis go at the same time during the turn, meaning they all purchase units, weapon developments, combat move, combat, noncombat, and collect income at the same time? And then the allies? Because if its like this, it would save time and make the game more historically coordinated. And just overall more awesome!


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yes correct all the axis play the phases at once in sequence: all builds, all move, all combat, etc, THEN allies do same.


  • Customizer

    I tried this 2 turn system out with a game of Revised just for kicks.  I did Axis first then Allies – big mistake.  Russia fell immediately with UK falling next turn.  Japan kind of screwed up and left their capital wide open, which USA took advantage of eagerly.  So, it ended up being a game of Germany vs. USA because everyone else pretty much got wiped out.  Eventually, Germany ended up taking it because they had too much territory in Europe and Asia.  Even thought the USA had the Pacific pretty much locked down, they couldn’t keep a foothold in Europe or Asia and Germany eventually built a big enough navy to challenge the US Navy and started encroaching into the Pacific and on North America.
    Since Revised is way different from Global 40, perhaps I should have let the Allies go first and then the Axis.  After all, that game starts with Russia.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    In that game you really need to alter the turn sequence for turn 1:

    russia
    axis
    allies

    then axis and allies

    This is what we did in AARHE 2004, which is the first use of this system. Of course their are other rules as well.



  • Does Russia need to go first in the global version of the 2 turn system?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I don’t know this. I do know in AAR it is mandatory. That is what we based AARHE on which employed that idea.



  • How do you designate a captured territory that has been taken by two powers.



  • Also, since all Axis units are moving at once is it allowable for them to share transports? Ill say yes but let me know what your guys do.



  • Can combined arms work with different nations ie a UK fighter and a US tactical bomber….would this make the US tac hit on a 4 ???


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    How do you designate a captured territory that has been taken by two power

    s

    The player with the most units controls area.

    Can combined arms work with different nations ie a UK fighter and a US tactical bomber….would this make the US tac hit on a 4

    this was never tested since we didn’t have all these boosts in AARHE

    Also, since all Axis units are moving at once is it allowable for them to share transports? Ill say yes but let me know what your guys do.

    only UK and USA or Germany and Italy can do this . NO other combinations. also, no allies in russia or no Japanese and German mixing



  • Oh sorry I was refering to Global 40… but none the less this could be applied to it as well. I think combined arms should stay within designated powers as it would make it more 1 power rather than several powers working together.


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