• I tried a USA first strategy in our game last night, it damn near worked!! there are a few things i could have done differently to better my odds, but we all know how that whole hindsight thing works, right?

    G1 buy ACC, 2 transports… pretty standard, scares UK into mostly inf on UK1 and limits units in SA… wipe out british navy in sz 112, 110, 106, 109, and 111, take france and southern france (i didn’t think i had enough for normandy also) attack yugo and absorb pro axis neutrals noncom 2 fighters to italy to scramble, fleet in sz 112

    J1 buy 2 transports, 2 subs… attack china everywhere i can… noncom everything that can make it to caroline islands, everything else to sz 6

    I1 buy transport… take gib, bunch of north africa, french fleet

    G2 (here’s where i should have changed something) bought ACC, 2 trans, 2 subs, 1 destroyer and some land units; i should have bought 1 or possibly 2 more transports.take normandy… move units closer to russia border

    J2 buy destroyer, units for asia train… attack china everywhere… non com caroline fleet to SZ 50, SZ 6 fleet to Wake Island SZ

    I2 buy destroyer and land units… need most of navy and 3 loadable transports in sz 92 and land  planes on gib

    G3buy all land units… move navy to SZ 91, troops on gib, 2 planes on gig, need empty carrier in case i need somewhere to land with italy aircraft

    J3 buy more asia units, maybe destroyer and/or transport… finish off china, non com sz 50 to sz 64, wake island to sz 12

    I3 take central america, se mexico

    G4 attack eastern us

    J4 attack eastern US


  • What was the outcome?


  • i didn’t have the numbers to do it properly, but i tried anyways to no avail. that’s why i said 1 or 2 transports and probably another bomber would have made the difference. it was fun to try something new.

    even though it didn’t work out and left alot of things open, i’m still in pretty good shape for our continuation.


  • @mantlefan:

    I can’t firgure out how so many people dominate the UK navy so badly. Are you playing with the Alpha+. Scrambling rules?

    What happens to italy when you leave Normandy untouched and the cruiser alive in 91? Did you get any planesto south Italy ? That German turn seems like a condemnation for italy.

    yes, using alpha 2

    yes, 2 fighters to southern italy.  UK attacked the battleship and cruiser and it went very well for me
    @mantlefan:

    More specifically, what do you send to SZ 110? UK can scramble 3 ftrs and blow away most anything Germany can afford to send while attacking 111 as well.

    vs 110 i sent 2 subs, 1 fighter, 2 tacs, 1 bomber. UK chose not to scramble probably for sea lion defense


  • @mantlefan:

    If you have the time, could you post what you sent to each of those 5 SZ’s?

    It seems like at least in 110 UK could have mopped the floor with you. Did you pull off 106 with only 1 sub?

    no problem

    vs 112 - 113 fleet, poland tac, slovac fighter, ftr and tac from west germany
    vs 110 - 2 subs, 1 fighter, 1 tacs, 1 bomber
    vs 106 - 1 sub
    vs 109 - 1 sub, 1 fighter (uk also didn’t scramble here, same sea lion paranoia)
    vs 111 - 1 sub, fighter, 2 tacs

    pretty sure this is it… 95% sure

  • '10

    @keplar:

    @mantlefan:

    If you have the time, could you post what you sent to each of those 5 SZ’s?

    It seems like at least in 110 UK could have mopped the floor with you. Did you pull off 106 with only 1 sub?

    no problem

    vs 112 - 113 fleet, poland tac, slovac fighter, ftr and tac from west germany
    vs 110 - 2 subs, 1 fighter, 1 tacs, 1 bomber
    vs 106 - 1 sub
    vs 109 - 1 sub, 1 fighter (uk also didn’t scramble here, same sea lion paranoia)
    vs 111 - 1 sub, fighter, 2 tacs

    pretty sure this is it… 95% sure

    Geez…You are lucky UK didn’t scramble…Don’t try that against an experienced player. At least 2 planes are missing in SZ 110 for a “serious” attack. Personally, with this setup, i would scramble in SZ 109 the scotland fighter, and 3 fighters in SZ 110 no matter what you bought on G1.


  • i think my sz 110 battle had another plane in it, it’s hard to remember for sure.  i was pretty sure he wasn’t going to scramble (i would). even if he did, and i lost some aircraft,  it wouldn’t have changed much regarding my overall strategy.


  • This strategy sounds really fun to try, particularly if the US player doesn’t know it’s coming.  However, I can’t help but notice that Italy did not participate in your attack.  Why?  Italy could easily have gotten 3 loaded transports and maybe some cruiser, BB bombards.  I think that if the German and Japanese player eliminate the US, even if the UK  is able to take Italy, it’s still a winning situation for the axis.  And Germany will probably liberate Italy eventually, but I don’t think the same could be said for the US.


  • @brettstarr4:

    This strategy sounds really fun to try, particularly if the US player doesn’t know it’s coming.  However, I can’t help but notice that Italy did not participate in your attack.  Why?  Italy could easily have gotten 3 loaded transports and maybe some cruiser, BB bombards.  I think that if the German and Japanese player eliminate the US, even if the UK  is able to take Italy, it’s still a winning situation for the axis.  And Germany will probably liberate Italy eventually, but I don’t think the same could be said for the US.

    keep in mind, this is alpha 2.

    Italy actually started the whole thing off during I3. They took central america and SE mexico. central allows Japan to go through the panama canal and SE mexico gives the German bomber somewhere to land.

    And it was fun to play/try. When i moved the german fleet to gibralter and the japanese fleet to sz 64, the US player pooped in his pants a little lol…


  • What was the American player buying this whole time? Bombers??? An experienced USA player would have bulked up enough home defence to stop any invasion upon seeing the Nazi Navy marshaling in Sz 91. As well how does Japan attack Eastern US?
    WHATEVER…. Sounds to me like this was a very short game……UK producing tanks in South Africa, Russia practically unopposed on the Eastern front, Italy out of Africa, India/Anzac unattacked and in possesion of the money islands. China building artillery.

    Way to screw the game kid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


  • @Idi:

    What was the American player buying this whole time? Bombers??? An experienced USA player would have bulked up enough home defence to stop any invasion upon seeing the Nazi Navy marshaling in Sz 91. As well how does Japan attack Eastern US?
    WHATEVER…. Sounds to me like this was a very short game……UK producing tanks in South Africa, Russia practically unopposed on the Eastern front, Italy out of Africa, India/Anzac unattacked and in possesion of the money islands. China building artillery.

    Way to screw the game kid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    you must not have read the first post outlining how it happened…

    the german fleet didn’t get to sz 91 until G3, then on US 3 he did bulk up for home defense, bringing units back,  etc.,  hence the title of the post…

    Italy is IN africa, by I3 Italy was getting 15 ipc’s in objectives. and like i said before, italy takes central america on I3 and japan sails through on J4

    Germany starts with enough units to hold off russia (and Russsia was buying tanks and he has a nice little airforce too) but so does Germany.

    we played about 6-7 hours on sunday night and will hopefully finish on friday. you’re right about the short game  :roll:


  • @mantlefan:

    @Idi:

    What was the American player buying this whole time? Bombers??? An experienced USA player would have bulked up enough home defence to stop any invasion upon seeing the Nazi Navy marshaling in Sz 91. As well how does Japan attack Eastern US?
    WHATEVER…. Sounds to me like this was a very short game……UK producing tanks in South Africa, Russia practically unopposed on the Eastern front, Italy out of Africa, India/Anzac unattacked and in possesion of the money islands. China building artillery.

    Way to screw the game kid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Before they are at war, USA can only build 3 per complex a turn. At least the first 2 buys for US players ARE mostly Naval and air. Honestly if the axis Gets USA who gives a darn what the chinese are doing lol?

    Looking at this situation, US really only has reason to believe it will be attacked (at least in the East) on it’s third buy. By then it might be too late to build enough.

    You’re absolutely right mantlefan, the US player was buying naval, fleet and some tech.  Plus i had a secondary Japanese fleet in sz 12, to threaten western US and Hawaii.


  • @mantlefan:

    @Idi:

    What was the American player buying this whole time? Bombers??? An experienced USA player would have bulked up enough home defence to stop any invasion upon seeing the Nazi Navy marshaling in Sz 91. As well how does Japan attack Eastern US?
    WHATEVER…. Sounds to me like this was a very short game……UK producing tanks in South Africa, Russia practically unopposed on the Eastern front, Italy out of Africa, India/Anzac unattacked and in possesion of the money islands. China building artillery.

    Way to screw the game kid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Before they are at war, USA can only build 3 per complex a turn. At least the first 2 buys for US players ARE mostly Naval and air. Honestly if the axis Gets USA who gives a darn what the chinese are doing lol?

    Looking at this situation, US really only has reason to believe it will be attacked (at least in the East) on it’s third buy. By then it might be too late to build enough.

    Hey Rook, thanks for tip on limited production! The only way the USA will ever be invaded is if Mantlefan is playing them.


  • Instead of being an interesting combination of ignorant, arrogant, and belligerent (this is called trolling) how about you back up your gratuitous assertions with actual evidence?

    yeah, Idi’s trolling me in the personal message area now lol….


  • At the end of J1 if America feels treatened they simply upgrade their Western IC. That will eliminate any Japanese threat and with Japan throwing themselves off a cliff trying to engage the USA it would make it soooooooooooooo easy for India forces to own the Burma road/ANZAC to liberate the Philippines etc, etc>>>>>>>>>>>>


  • @mantlefan:

    If the USA figures out what you are up to on USA2 this strat still forces them to waste a few buys on securing the continent. This is actually not a bad strat for getting pearl. Once the Japan get’s pearl with this scare, it’s honestly not that far for Germany to INDIA. Sounds crazy, but UK has been hemmed in through 2 turns of sealion scare, USA had to play defensive and get lots of land units and planes, and if Japan can put most everyhitng into holdiong pearl and going hardcore into india, and Germany can survive long enough, the german/italian/japanese combo could take india. Remember, only 6 are necessary for the victory.

    I’m not saying this is the best strategy, but the fact that it can simultaneously put USA and UK in fear of their capitals can make things very interesting.

    Your right! this is not the best strategy…… However this would be the best strategy if you wanted to waste 3.5 hours of other players time. Way to fall on your sword>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


  • @mantlefan:

    @Idi:

    Your right! this is not the best strategy…… However this would be the best strategy if you wanted to waste 3.5 hours of other players time. Way to fall on your sword>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So only the strategy that is proven to be the best should EVER be attempted? Let’s play all games according to the same

    Why does a strategy not being the best mean that it’s impossible?

    Having the right to speak your “mind” doesn’t mean you should. Please provide some evidence to support your claims, or (I’m putting it politely here) shut up!

    What about a Japanese stack in 6 on J2 makes USA suspicious? Why does USA know automatically that when Germany does a fairly standard sealion until G3, they are coming for the USA?

    Speaking of shut up the original post states that the Italians are in Sz92


  • @mantlefan:

    @Idi:

    At the end of J1 if America feels treatened they simply upgrade their Western IC. That will eliminate any Japanese threat and with Japan throwing themselves off a cliff trying to engage the USA it would make it soooooooooooooo easy for India to liberate the Burma road etc, etc>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The most dangerous thing that could happen to Japan is a UK declaration, which simply won’t happen UK1, and if it happens UK2 (it will happen UK3), there’s not too much to worry about outside of the hong kong infantry and landing maybe formosa.

    What happens when the Russians kick down Japan’s back door? Grab your ankles and take a deep breath!

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Mantlefan you starting more problems?

    Didn’t we get enough the last time?

  • Customizer

    Huh… it appears that Idi Amin is the one who hopped on this thread and started trolling…


  • Notation used: WUS=Western US, CUS=Central US, EUS= Eastern US, sz= sea zone, DD= destroyer

    I’ve posted a few USA first strategies for OOB. When play testing the American response to my earlier strategies, I found central US to be vital. Basically, if West US is threatened, I pull back to central US, build there, and that way I can redeploy to either coast. If Japan takes West US, I trade it as needed. I usually pull back the starting navy to W.US turn 1, from there if Hawaii is a no go zone on turn 2, I send fleet to east side of panama(sz89) canal to link up with the ships bought in central US sea zone turn 1.

    With this conservative play, when Japan moves to sz64(west of canal), I move the whole US fleet(from sz 101+sz89) to sz89(east of the canal). The central US land units move to E.US, I build mechanized as defenders for East US, so I can still trade W. US if needed. I only lose the game if Australia falls, before I liberate Hawaii in this scenario.

    There is a danger, that your fleet will die in sz89 from a German navy/air, Japanese air one two punch, but it is a setback, and London survives this scenario.

    It may be radical to trade West US. However, I favor a play style that seeks not to put my pieces out of position trying to defend multiple fronts. It seems optimal to concentrate forces, and force the opponent to “pull the trigger” and place his pieces out of position first, then I respond and simple logistics gives me the edge against a protracted Japanese assault.

    In this threads scenario, here are my builds for U.S.:

    Turn 1: 2 carriers(wus/cus), 1 transports(wus), 1 Destroyer(wus), 1 infantry(cus:because I run out of infantry filling Hawaii-standard play)
    Turn2: 1 carrier(wus),2 transports(wus/eus), 2 destroyers(wus/eus),2 infantry(cus) (Hawaii gets abandoned as both fleets can hit it)
    Turn3:(threat detected-German fleet at 91) 3 infantry(cus),3 fighters(eus), 1 inf(wus) save 10 IPCs

    Turn 3: defensive moves (assume worst case scenario: I am caught flat-footed) Units pulled out of Hawaii last turn into WUS simply move to CUS, with all air units stacking EUS. WUS fleet moves through peaceful Japanese fleet to sz 89 to link fleets. 1 DD attempts a feeble block in sz102 to force Italy to clear for German invasion. CUS land units move to EUS (I keep all excess land units unable to fit on Hawaii bound transports here, this should be your starting land forces(-3 land units[art,2inf] sent to WUS turn2, tank and mech can reach EUS) + 5  built infantry (as 1 built turn 1 is in WUS bound for CUS this turn.)

    EUS turn 4 defense (alpha+.2)= AAgun, 7 infantry(5 bought), 4 mechanized infantry, 1 armor, 8 fighters(3 bought), 1 tactical fighter, 1 bombe r+ 1 uk inf and artillery from [Ontario turn1/Quebec turn2] Note: US is at war on UK’s turn 3, thus UK may enter US.
    CUS = 1 artillery, 7 infantry(3 bought, 2 from Hawaii,2 from WUS) 2 UK fighters (moved to Newfoundland turn3 when pressure lifted off capital)
    WUS= 1 infantry
    sz 89= 1 Battleship, 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers (2 bought), 2 carriers (1 bought), 5 transports (3 bought), 1 sub
    sz 102= 1 Destroyer(bought turn2)
    sz 101= 1 Carrier(bought turn1) 2 UK fighters. This permits US to stramble 3 air, if German’s try to hit CUS.

    The above is sub-optimal, as Japan could win with 6 cities if they take Kwangtung,Phillippines,Hawaii,and W.US turn 4, with a German capture of CUS-US land unit take back force destroyed. If this is a possible outcome, it would make more sense to stack all units in CUS and trade EUS capital for 1 turn or place more air units in CUS and make EUS a gamble, or split fleet if able. Note: as stated, this is sub-optimal and a result of being caught flat footed turn 3. Or…position India/Anzac for a city liberation/defense turn4.


  • Note: Go back one page to read my detailed response to this threads topic.

    This strategy could use a slight tweak to keep maximum pressure on Australia, instead of moving to Midway turn 2, move to Caroline islands and keep the allies focused on Anzac and Hawaii and not the WUS and EUS.

    To keep UK honest, I usually amass 9 German transports and this threat will put the screws to US when you redeploy.

    If you focus South, you might encourage a sloppy US to build west coast and be less prepared.

    Make sure the transport off Quebec lives so you don’t have the UK infantry and armor in EUS turn 4 as they will want to stack them in UK turn 1.

    Just something to think about.


  • @mantlefan:

    @JamesAleman:

    Note: Go back one page to read my detailed response to this threads topic.
    This strategy could use a slight tweak to keep maximum pressure on Australia, instead of moving to Midway turn 2, move to Caroline islands and keep the allies focused on Anzac and Hawaii and not the WUS and EUS.
    To keep UK honest, I usually amass 9 German transports and this threat will put the screws to US when you redeploy.
    If you focus South, you might encourage a sloppy US to build west coast and be less prepared.
    Make sure the transport off Quebec lives so you don’t have the UK infantry and armor in EUS turn 4 as they will want to stack them in UK turn 1.
    Just something to think about.

    Good look at the US buys. I really don’t know anyone whose first or even second USA buys would be for the defense of the Continental USA with a careful axis attack.

    The issue with the carolines, for the Japanese, is that they can’t get within 1 SZ of W USA from there. Japan can go from 6 to 9. In the carolines, USA can just block when Japan moves from the carolines.

    It’s far from Guaranteed, but a kill usa strat is quite possbile to hide (at least the first time you try it against a player) until G3. Your USA strat sounds pretty typical and decent for what the usa is capable of once the realize it’s not a sealion or a J4 SE asia steamroll.

    In my suggested builds, I typically build some infantry. This is because the US starts with so many non-infantry land units, that in order to fill my early transports, I need early infantry builds.
    When I first read the alpha changes regarding the limit on US builds, I thought the US was too vulnerable to defend itself from an early determined joint axis attack, that is also why I build a token infantry here and there.
    My initial thoughts were that I could declare my intentions and still capture Washington by turn 5, however, since then I haven’t arrived at the right plan to justify that sentiment.
    I am still left wondering why this change was suggested, as the US simply lacks the funds to construct a navy to rival Japan’s prior to entering war, and this now exposes the U.S. to possible capture, unless they voluntarily upgrade a complex.

    Off Topic: The best thing about 1940 is the amount of choices the axis players have when planning.
    I like the fact that USA first is potentially successful, for when axis players get board winning with London/Sydney first strategies. I found a way to deliver Sydney to Japan, without having to place the whole fleet out of position. It permits the use of the Japanese air force to achieve this. It also permits the US to remain neutral for the full three turns and forces a Pacific first response from America to keep the game going. Executed properly, India may be sacked suddenly, or if guarded, then Hawaii can be taken later at your convenience to end the game. The best part is, for a Japan, the naval deployments are graceful and sweeping like decisive sword thrusts. Seizing India for the win is simply a Chiburi stroke.

    Chiburi - “Removing blood from the sword.” In Iaido, a sharp downward stroke of the sword done in such a way as to shake off the blood accumulated from previous cutting actions.

  • '10

    @Idi:

    except OOB rookies which are the only opponents you play

    That…doesn’t really make sense.  Also known as “wat is this i dont even”.


  • This whole strategy rides on that UK player is a rookie and does not scramble, and you dice rolls are Perfect.  No way Germany can sink all the royal navy like that unless his dice rolls are 100% perfect.

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