Has anybody tested this mod?more detailed map Italy fortifications modified sub rules national advantages
How did you like it? What modifications you deem necessary?
I’ve been working on a more advanced version of the original A&A Europe and would like to share my map design and some new rules with you all. I’m pretty much happy with the way the map is now but I would be grateful for any suggestions for improvements. Tell me what you think!
That map looks fantastic! Very detailed with all the extra territories. I like how not all territories have an IPC value but you have to take them for strategic value. Very historical. A lot of times armies would have to fight like hell for some territory that wasn’t worth diddly but had strategic importance. I always hate that when I have to fight a huge battle and lose guys just to take some scrap of land that isn’t even worth anything just because I need it to get to something else. I have a few questions:
1. I noticed in the unit type box (upper left corner) you didn’t have tac-bombers or mech inf. Don’t you want to incorporate them into this game since we have those pieces now?
2. I assume the symbol that looks like a little house represents a minor IC, correct?
3. What’s the difference between the green naval and air bases and the blue naval and air bases?
4. What part do the Axis Minors play in this? Are they a part of Germany or would they be like a separate country?
5. Would the yellow Middle-East territories work like they did in the original A&A Europe?
6. Do you have any link to set-up charts and rules? (I think some of my previous questions would be answered in that case).
Thank you very much, knp7765! I’m glad you like my map and appreciate your comments. To answer your questions:
1. Nope, I have not included Tac Bombers or Mech Infantry in my game rules or set up, as I do not own those peices yet. I will evntually incorporate them into my game (including Mot Infantry) when I get said units from FMG.
2. Yes, that is a Minor IC. And this is only because I used the little green house pieces from Monopoly and painted them grey!
3. Sorry, yes I should have made this clear: Green is MAJOR and Blue is MINOR. Both have different sizes and different rules.
4. Good question, well put. The Axis Minors have their own rules. Germany controls them on her turn. They have unit build restrictions and cannot be upgraded by technology.
5. Yes, they work in exactly the same way as the orignal A&A Europe.
6. I am working on that now. Watch this space.
Cool. I look forward to seeing the rules for this version. So you are making this game to be playable specifically with the FMG units? I will probably wait for a while until you incorporate Tacs and Mechs into the game. I’m afraid that once I get a new unit, I can’t do without it. I haven’t played any of my older games in a while because I don’t like doing without the newer units.
One thing I really like about your map is that the Air and Naval bases are already on the map. I wish they would have done that with the A&A 1940 maps and leave the extra base tokens for when you build new bases in the process of the game. After all, doesn’t it say in the rules that once a facility is built, it can’t be removed?
A while back, before we got Europe 1940, I did an upgrade to the original Europe game by incorporating Italy into it (see photo). Basically, I simply took 10 IPCs of territory from Germany and made them Italian. The rest of the game pretty much operated the same way. I did have a problem figuring out turn order. At first I had Italy going right after Germany. Then after Russia, which didn’t seem to make any difference. I was going to try placing Italy after England, but never got around to trying that game out. One thing I noticed by splitting the Axis into two powers, it seemed a little harder for the Axis to win. When it was just Germany vs. the Allies, I found that most of the time Germany ended up winning unless they did something stupid like leaving Berlin open for a UK invasion. With the 40 IPCs, I found Germany better able to hold off UK and US attacks while really pounding into Russia and eventually capturing Moscow to win. Cutting Germany down to 30 IPCs to include Italy really seems to hamper their abilities and allows Russia to hold their ground better. Italy does well at first usually conquering the Med and Middle East, but once USA gets over with some real force, they usually pound Italy pretty good. For one thing, Italy doesn’t have much chance of gaining much territories and with no NOs like in the 1940 games, Italy’s income doesn’t improve very much.
Really looking forward to seeing more of your version. By the way, do you use German pieces for the Axis Minors? Or perhaps some of the painted armies offered by coachofmany?
Great post, knp7765. The way it is at the moment, I have created the game with all the regular units in mind, which are currently:
Infantry, Artillery, Tanks, AA Guns, Maj & Min Industrial Complexes, Maj & Min Air and Naval Bases, Fighters, Bombers, Submarines, Transports, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battleships and Aircraft Carriers. I will eventually bring in Transport Planes, Tac Bombers (making regular Bombers into Strategic Bombers), Mech & Mot Infantry, and hopefully Self Propelled Guns etc in the future. I don’t have either of the new 1940 games yet.
Yes, Air and Naval bases are already on the map but you can always buy and place more during the course of the game. However, my rules for these installations differ slightly to the 1940 versions. I like what you did to the original A&A Europe game with regards to Italy! I believe the turn order in my game will be:
1. Germany (& Axis Minors)
2. United Kingdom
4. Soviet Union
5. United States
(However, I am still playtesting this and I’m not 100% sure of that turn order.)
I use the dark blue German pieces from A&A Revised (2004) version for the Axis Minor units and they look good next to the black German units. I will post a pic of the set up and then the individual set up charts for each power.
Here is a picture of the basic set up. Again, all recommendations/corrections/suggestions are welcome.
That looks like a pretty cool setup. I like how in some of the territories you have German, Axis Minor and Italian units together. It’s too bad we don’t have that “Commander In Chief” rule from the old original A&A, 1st Edition. I hated that they cut that rule out in the 2nd Edition and wish we could incorporate it into the newer games.
I noticed that you are going very piece heavy, especially on the Eastern Front. A LOT of Infantry, way more than in the original Europe or Europe 1940. It has the makings for some really big battles out there. I like it.
Interesting turn order too. I’m so used to Russia going right after Germany that it’s kind of odd to see them shunted to almost last place. I’m curious to see how that affects the game overall. (By the way, the tan color you used for United Kingdom doesn’t show up very well in your post. At first glance, I thought you left the “2.” spot blank.)
Looking forward to seeing more. Once you have a finished game, are you going to make the map and rules to sell? Will people have to supply their own pieces?
Many thanks again, knp7765, for your comments and compliments.
I have fixed the turn order colours; they should be clear now. I wanted Soviet Union in that placement to kind of show their delayed reaction to the Barbarossa initiative.
With regard to the rules, I will be posting them shortly. I would like to state that they are by no means set in stone, and I welcome players to change them as they see fit. For example, the “Commander In Chief” rule could well be used too. I do not intend to sell anything - this is for the good of the community.
More coming soon.
Okay, here are the set up charts:
And the rest:
Nice map Lozmoid. If you wanted you could give germany and Italy a convoy zone each. Germany would have theirs in the baltic and Italy just south of Italy. Otherwise nice job man. Dave
Thank you GoSanchez6, that’s an excellent idea! I may just do that… So, what do you suggest? I think perhaps 5 IPC for Germany in SZ 8, and 3 IPC for Italy in SZ 32. Would that be about right? Too much, too less?
Everybody, this map/game is completely open to criticism/improvement.
I like it. If you feel you are giving the Axis too much extra cash just make some of the other convoys worth more money or increase the value a territory like Gibraltar. I know a lot of people think that sounds nuts its a rock for Gods sake.In my opinion it should be worth something not because of raw materials but because its strategic significance. I also believe Larry should have incorporated this on islands like Okinawa,Wake,Solomons and Iwo Jima. Think about the battle of Guadalcanal. The Japanese did everything to hold it and it is worth 0 IPCs. That doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Thanks for your input, GoSanchez6 . I had never considered giving the Axis some Conzoy Zones before. However, I see no reason why not. Take a look at the revised map. The Axis have gained two new Conzoy Zones worth a total of 5 IPCs. To balance this, I have added another 5 IPC Conzoy Zone for United Kingdom. What do you think?
I like it Lozmoid. Looks good. What do you think of my comments on Gibraltar and the islands in the pacific being worth more. Keep up the nice work
I think I will be keeping Gibraltar as it is. It already gets an Air Base and a Naval Base, and it controls the western entrance to the Mediterranean Sea (I will post my rules regarding Straights soon). Also, it did not have that much of in industrial production capacity. Strategic importance, yes. The Pacific, however, does not come into this; I am only working on the Europe side of things. More to come soon.
Here are the rules regarding Straights:
Straits are represented as small channels of water that connect two sea zones. Transit through any strait is denied to all surface ships (including Transports) by the side that controls territory which governs the strait (either Axis or Allies). Only Submarines may pass through a strait unharmed, and without permission. Air units may always pass between the connecting sea zones; they are not restricted in any way.
There are three straits on the map:
Denmark: Is Axis controlled at the beginning of the game. Allied surface ships may not move from sea zone 8 to sea zone 9 (or vice versa) as long as the Axis controls the territory of Denmark.
Gibraltar: Is Allied controlled at the beginning of the game. Axis surface ships may not move from sea zone 26 to sea zone 27 (or vice versa) as long as the Allies control the territory of Gibraltar.
Turkey: Is Neutral controlled at the beginning of the game. Both Axis and Allied surface ships may not move from sea zone 34 to sea zone 36 (or vice versa) under any circumstances, for the duration of the game. Submarines from both sides may still pass through, however.
Here are the rules for the Axis Minors Power:
The Axis Minors represent the nations that were either allied to or directly supported Germany and Italy during the war. These nations are:
Nation Game Territories
FINLAND Northern Finland, Southern Finland
ROMANIA East Romania, West Romania
VICHY FRANCE Vichy, South Morocco, North Morocco, Oran, Maghreb, Tunisia, Corsica
The Axis Minors (AM) do not have their own economy and cannot control territories. Any territories captured by the AM count towards Germany’s IPC production. If the AM capture an enemy territory, place a German control marker on it and adjust Germany’s income on the IPC chart (if necessary).
The German player may purchase AM combat units and installations, if desired, but may only place them in the original AM territories; normal restrictions apply. German combat units may only be built at German ICs.
AM combat units cannot be upgraded by technology and cannot share technology with Germany or Italy (all AM unit models begin the game with varying levels of technology - either 1 or 2 star - but they will remain that way for the duration of the game).
If the German player builds an Industrial Complex in any eligible original AM territory, that IC will be considered to belong to the AM nation in whose territory it now sits (i.e. if Germany builds a Minor IC in the territory of West Romania, then the IC will belong to Romania - AM). Any units produced at an IC in an AM territory will be AM units (use the dark blue German pieces; not the black ones). These units are placed in exactly the same way as normal.
The AM are restricted to certain combat unit types: They cannot build Battleships or Aircraft Carriers.
Germany controls all AM forces during her turn in exactly the same way as her own German forces. She may move them during the Combat and Non Combat Move phases, just like her own units. Germany may attack an enemy territory or sea zone with a mixture of German and AM units.
AM forces operate in exactly the same way as German units; however, there is one exception: AM Infantry cannot be paired one for one with German Artillery. AM Artillery cannot be paired with German Infantry.
The Technology Chart: I am working on two types of technology in this game: theoretical and practical. Theoretical tech is more expensive but yields powerful results more quickly; practical tech is strictly for improving your combat units - it takes a long time but acheivements are gained through persistance.
What are the technologies for that chart? Also, what are the red "X"s for? Do they mean that those units can not improve beyond that point?
I’d better post the Technology (practical research) rules to explain that:
Your combat units can be upgraded into better versions by investing in technology over the course of the game. When a unit type reaches the next level of technology, its Attack and Defence values will increase; the Cost does not.
Each Power begins the game with varying levels of technology for each of its combat units, based upon its historical situation. For example, some powers will have more advanced sea units, and some will have more advanced air units etc. Players should use the Unit Technology Cards for their Power, to determine a unit’s Attack and Defence values. Use the Technology Chart below to keep track of your Power’s research advancements:
This chart lists the combat unit type (vertically) and the level of technology for that unit (horizontally). The National Control symbols indicate a given Power’s starting level of technology for each of its combat units. At the game set up, place one of your Power’s National Control Markers over its grey counterpart on the chart. There are four levels of technological development:
It costs 4 IPCs to upgrade a unit by one level. Pay the cost to the bank and then move the Control Marker that corresponds to the unit being upgraded, one space to the right. When the Control Marker reaches a column indicated by a number of stars, it has achieved the next level of technology. Replace that unit’s Unit Technology Card with the next higher version, e.g. if your Tanks were at the Basic (two star) level and they reach the Improved level (three star) replace the old two star card with the new three star one.
Destroyers, Cruisers and Aircraft Carriers cannot be upgraded past the third level of technology (Improved).
The Axis Minor combat units cannot be upgraded by technology and therefore do not have a Control Marker on the Technology Chart (see rules for AXIS MINORS).
I take it that you can only move 1 column space per round for each unit, right? For example, say Germany was ready to launch a massive attack with tanks. German tanks start at the 1st space of Level 2. Germany couldn’t simply pay 16 IPCs to move their tank technology up four spaces to the next level, could they?
This is really getting exciting. We need to see the different technology cards for each unit (one star, two star, etc.)
The theoretical tech is where you will have stuff like heavy bombers, long range aircraft, improved naval shipyards, etc.? Or have you come up with different ones?
Thank you knp7765,
I am currently working on the theoretical research side of the technology rules and may need some help with ideas. I will use many of the standard options (Long Range Aircraft, Heavy Bombers etc) but I aim to expand these ideas even more. I will likely create a tech tree with different starting points (Air, Naval, Land, Industrial etc) that sprout outwards and even cross over/link in with each other, with the more advanced techs requiring prerequisite techs. You will still have to use the research tokens which you can accumulate over the turns. More on this soon.
As for the practical side of things, I have made no hard & fast rules stipulating that any given unit type may only be upgraded once per turn. As it stands, players are welcome to invest as much as they want, per turn, into the design of their choice. So if you really wanted those Improved German Tanks on your first turn, then yes, you could indeed spend the 16 IPCs and get them!
Unit Technology Cards coming very soon…
Now I will post the pictures for the Unit Technology Cards. First up, the Axis Minors. Remember, these units are generic across the various nations that were allied to or indirectly supported the Germans. They cannot be upgraded with practical technology; they get what they start with. Here goes: