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Seeking advice on converting Classic +1942 into Global 1940



  • I’m a longtime player of A&A classic who recently got a chance to play A&A 1942. I liked it and bought a copy. Now I want Global 1940, but I don’t have the budget to buy the 2 games now, so I am going to use my A&A classic and 1942 sets to play Global.

    I am writing to ask your advice about what I’ll need.

    Those needs can be divided into 4 categories::

    1. Boards and rules
      2. New tokens and markers
      3. new unit pieces
      4. new sides

    Here is what I am planning:
    1. I have ordered the 1940 boards and Europe 1940 rules individually off Ebay. the Pacific 1940 rules are online, and I believe all other errata and such is online as well.

    2. Tokens and markers

    I will either buy them on ebay or make my own. They don’t need to be pretty.

    3. There are 4 units not present in classic - destroyer, cruiser, mechanized inf., and artillery.

    For cruisers and destroyers I would repaint some of the Russian and German ones from 1942, since I can’t imagine those sides use all of them. I might also get some on destroyers on ebay and reapaint classic battleships. Same for artillery for the new sides (I also have the risk artillery pieces).

    For tactical bombers I will use the classic fighters, repainting some as German (black) and other colors as needed.

    Mechanized infantry is more of a problem. I hope to find small plastic trucks that I can repaint. In a pinch, I’ll use tokens, or the APCs from Fortress America (which I have).

    4, This gets trickier.

    For the old sides, I’ll use the 1942 sets for the Russians, Germans, US, Japan, and UK. I assume that I’ll need many of the classic US, UK and Japan infantry (and maybe tanks) to supplement the 1942 pieces. For the others, I’m thinking:

    • Classic Germans = ANZAC
    • Classic Russian = Italy (or are the colors too similar to the Russians, in which case I would use old Russian for the ANZACs)
    • Fortress America Partisans = China
    • Repainted British bought on the secondary market = French

    Though I appreciate any comments or advice based on the above, I have the following particular questions:

    1. How many ICs, air bases, naval bases, and anti-aircraft pieces does a game of Global need?
    2. In Europe 1940, Pacific 1940, and esp. Global 1940 how many of each piece do the factions need? In particular, what do you tend to use a lot of/what runs out? US fighters? Japanese infantry? etc.
    3. For the new, smaller sides - Italy, ANZAC, China, and France - how many of each piece do they need?
    4. Are the Classic russians different enough from the new russians that they could be used as Italians and avoid Eastern Front confusion?
    6. How many tactical bombers get used?
    7. What am I forgetting?
    8. More broadly, will this work?

    Thanks,
    F


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    No offense, but any kind of conversion, like you are talking about - is not likely to end well.  Because of all the new countries, Anzac, Italy, France.  New Pieces as you mentioned, and new map.

    Seriously, for all the work, energy, material, and investment it is going to take you, to try and make a game of Global out of 1942 and Classic.  There is a MUCH better approach.

    Get a part time job for a week at McDonalds or whatever,  after 15 hours of work that’s roughly $120 - enough to buy the game.

    That or you could pick berries on a farm,  go haying, deliver newspapers, or sell vacuums door to door or whatever, even temp in construction.  There is always some kind of oppurtunity for you.

    Your conversion is going to take WAY longer than 15 hours, and it won’t look as good, plus once you have this job that you don’t care about, if you like you can keep it a little longer if money is a consistent difficulty.

    Even collecting bottles, or mowing lawns would be easier, than attempting this conversion.

    Money is what makes the world go around.



  • Thanks, but:
    1. If I did earn more, I wouldn’t be able to spend it on the game.
    2. Why do you think it will take that much time to do this?
    3. I already have boards for 1940 and have 1942, so I’m not inclined to spend another $140. Also - where can you get it for $120?


  • '10

    Unfortunately Foxtrot, Gargantua is pretty much right.

    Gave it to you in a slightly different manner, but he’s right. You may have just been better off buying the two games. I was looking to do the same thing as you. I had Spring '42 and bought the global boards. I found the Italian pieces for a fairly good price, and can use older US pieces as China infantry, but that still leaves me needing France, ANZAC and mechs and tac bombers for every country.

    I even thought about not using France and just moving the starting date back (forward?) until after the Battle of France was over, and consolidating the UK and ANZAC forces (probably should be anyway). Still, just buying the mechs and tacs for this revised game would put me at about the same cost as just buying the global game.

    Another option you might want to consider is just playing the 1942 game on the 1940 board. There the hardest thing you have to figure out is converting the setup. Could still use the other countries if you want, or just the 5 main powers. You could also adapt any of the NOs, air/naval bases, convoy rules, etc. that you wanted.



  • Well, I appreciate (from both of you) the advice (albeit blunt). I think I’m going to go ahead for now and see how it works out. Is there anywhere I could look to get a sense of how many pieces typically get used in a game of Global?

    F


  • '10

    No problem, if you ever figure anything out post your results.

    You can check out boardgamegeek for lists of the number of units that come with the games, but the units that actually get used will depend upon player most of the time. For France, you would probaly only really need the units that are on the initial setup, plus one or two backups for each.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    How badly do you really need / want the game?

    There are other ways to hook you up.  Send me a PM if you are a real fan.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Foxtrot:

    4. Are the Classic russians different enough from the new russians that they could be used as Italians

    The latest infantry sculpts for the five classic A&A nations all have varying degrees of small differences from the original ones, but in most cases you have to look really closely to tell the difference.  The current Russians, for example, are armed with a submachine gun with a larger drum magazine than the originals.  The current and original British pieces have a different elbow posture: one leaves an open space at the bend of the elbow while the other one doesn’t.  (I don’t have my sculpts in front of me right now, so I can’t recall which version has which configuration.)  Those are probably the two most visible differences…and from a distance of more than a couple of feet I don’t think they’d be noticeable.  The differences in the other nationality sculpts – things like slightly different helmet shapes – are even more subtle.  They’re so minor that even from close up they’re hard to see.



  • Wanna Loan?



  • I got mine from coolstuffinc for 120$



  • Thanks for all of the…other options folks here have been suggesting, but I am determined to make a stab at this.

    By now I’ve learned what the two 1940 sets come with and I think I know what they are short of in a typical global game (UK carriers, German subs, Japanese tac bombers, Japanese mech infantry, Russian artillery). That leaves two sets of unanswered questions:

    1. How compatible are colors from Classic, 1942, and some of the other intermediate sets. In particular, are old and new Japanese yellow close enough to be one side? What about Pacific (old, not 1940) Japanese yellow and 1942 Japanese yellow? How about 1940 Italy and classic Russia? Are revised German black black enough to go with 1942 German? Are grey revised German and old Europe German grey enough to go well with Classic German and not be confused with black 1942 German?

    2. How many of each unit do the sides need, esp. the minor powers? Do ANZAC need more than 4 or 5 tanks? 4 or 5 fighters? Does Italy? I’ve had no luck finding such discussions using the search functions - is there anywhere that people post game reports or the like that might have that data? At least, are the numbers in the 1940 sets more than sufficient, except for the units I listed above?

    Thanks,
    F


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Foxtrot:

    1. How compatible are colors from Classic, 1942, and some of the other intermediate sets. In particular, are old and new Japanese yellow close enough to be one side? What about Pacific (old, not 1940) Japanese yellow and 1942 Japanese yellow? How about 1940 Italy and classic Russia? Are revised German black black enough to go with 1942 German? Are grey revised German and old Europe German grey enough to go well with Classic German and not be confused with black 1942 German?

    For colour comparison data and pictures, see this thread:
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=21158.0



  • Marc - thank you very much for that link - it’s exactly what I was hoping to find.



  • In the long run you will find you spent almost 80% of the cost of the initail purchese anyway. save youself the aggravation and just buy it used on ebay.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Foxtrot:

    Marc - thank you very much for that link - it’s exactly what I was hoping to find.

    You’re welcome.  One note of caution: keep in mind that, if you base some of the nationalities in your converted set on the subtle shade differences that exist for the same nominal colour in different A&A editions, you may run into difficulties if your lighting conditions change.  I’ve found that some shades which are easy to tell apart under one set of lighting conditions (daylight vs. incandescent vs. fluorescent) are indistinguishable in a different illumination.  The green US infantry pieces (which have been produced in many slight [and not-so-slight] shade variations) are particularly notorious in this regard because fluorescent light sometimes has a greenish tinge to it.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I’d pay the $120 just to spare you this madness.

    It’s not going to work, what you are describing would is going to be an abortion.

    That said…

    1. Color compatibility is all dependant on what you’re willing to put up with.  I wouldn’t stand for it, but you don’t seem to care, so it’s not a good question to ask.  You are likely to run into problems mid game, with not being able to distinguish British, Anzac, or Japanese troops, if you are mixing old, with revised, with new.  It’s not a good idea.

    2.  5 of everything is a good start.  You’ll learn more of what you need as you go, and you can usually make do with 5.

    Give up now.



  • @Gargantua:

    I’d pay the $120 just to spare you this madness.

    It’s not going to work, what you are describing would is going to be an abortion.

    That said…

    1. Color compatibility is all dependant on what you’re willing to put up with.  I wouldn’t stand for it, but you don’t seem to care, so it’s not a good question to ask.  You are likely to run into problems mid game, with not being able to distinguish British, Anzac, or Japanese troops, if you are mixing old, with revised, with new.  It’s not a good idea.

    2.  5 of everything is a good start.  You’ll learn more of what you need as you go, and you can usually make do with 5.

    Give up now.

    Hey if your buying players games…I’ll take a copy of global


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    You can take that $120 out of foriegn aid contributions to your country idi.



  • Is there a difference in the quality of the cardboard used for the ICs, bases, and roundels between the two versions?



  • Don’t skimp on your pieces
    the little tanks and dudes are what got me and others hooked
    I’d say shovel snow because it snows where I’m at
    but good luck with your project


  • Customizer

    Hey Foxtrot,
    Here’s a little info that might help you in your quest.  First of all, about the ICs.  In Classic, Revised, 1942, etc. they only had one kind of IC and they used plastic pieces to represent them.  In the 1940 games, they came out with major and minor ICs and use cardboard counters to represent them.  Personnaly, I hate the cardboard counters and prefer the plastic pieces.  You can use the grey ICs from 1942 for Majors and the white ICs from Classic as Minors.  Another option for your majors is to use the grey city pieces from Risk as they are about the same shade of grey and look great on the board.  You can get them for just $2.50 for a bag of 15 cities with the blue army pieces at the following link:

    http://www.hasbro.com/customer-service/orderform.cfm?sku=45086

    As for the roundels, Europe 1940 and the 50th Anniversary games came out with good, high quality roundels that were nice and thick.  The roundels from Revised, 1942 and Pacific 1940 were very thin.  Roundels from the first Pacific and Europe games are also thick and of decent quality.  Check on eBay.  Some sellers sell little sets of just roundels and you could probably pick up some fairly cheap.  You could probably get away with just 20-30 roundels for most games.  I think Japan would need the most.
    A suggestion for playing pieces – there is a seller on eBay that I know called “boboshonda” that sells whole sets of national pieces for $9.99-$14.99 each.  That would be a good place for you to pick up the smaller countries like ANZAC, France and Italy.  Those sets also include a small number of roundels for those countries.  Also, although I myself am a HUGE piece junkie, you really can get by with a small number of actual playing pieces if you have a lot of the little white and red chips.  I even have blue (10) and Yellow (20) chips, though I tend to try and cram actual pieces on the board.
    Here is a setup of the common pieces needed for the Global 1940 Alpha +2 setup:
    8 Major Industrial Complexes
    12 Minor Industrial Complexes
    16 Anti-Aircraft Guns
    22 Air Bases
    22 Naval Bases
    Now, That is just what you need to start the game.  It doesn’t account for any new facilities you may want to build during the game.

    Good Luck.  Let us know how your project goes.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Foxtrot:

    Is there a difference in the quality of the cardboard used for the ICs, bases, and roundels between the two versions?

    I don’t keep track of which of my roundels come from which game, but one detail I do recall is that the roundels in Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940 have different back colours – one is black and one is white (though I don’t recall which is which).  I think Anniversary is the only other game that used black backings.



  • I’ve got my plan worked out - all I need to do is decide how many of which units to buy individually. I have some specific questions. For all of these questions, assume I am doing the maximum amount of chipping possible, so the questions below (except possibly for capital ships) is really about how many different spaces one might have troops in. In Classic and 1942 (the ones I’ve played), a side generally has no more than a couple of separate armies or fleets, so 3 of naval units and 8 of land and tac air are enough. Is this dramatically different in Global?

    I’ve got mech inf taken care of.

    1. How many fighters, tanks, and arty do the French need? Less than 8, I assume. 2
    2. Same question, but ships - DD, CA, and subs. Do they need capital ships (carriers and battleships)?
    3. Same as 1+2, but for the ANZACs.
    3.5. And again, for the Italians.
    4. How many subs do the Germans need?
    5. How many tac bombers do the Germans need?
    6. Are 10 tac bombers enough for Japan?
    7. Are 9 enough for Germany?
    8. The Classic battleships are the size of 1942 cruisers. What about the BBs from the 199 Europe and 2001 Pacific games?
    9. How many fighters does Japan need?
    10. does anyone need more than 4 strategic bombers?
    11. How many capital ships do Britain, the US, and Japan need?
    12. Which sides don’t use many tacs (i.e. 3 pieces would be enough). Someone said that the UK uses few - are there others?
    13. Again, I received feedback that the US and UK don’t use many mechs. So they would be good with 3-4, and the Germans, Russians, and Japan need a lot?
    14. How many artillery does China need - i.e., at most, how many different territories would they have artillery units in?

    In addition, I am not sure if the reason some figs don’t run out in Global is because the major powers get more of some units (e.g. German inf, Japanese units, and the double US/UK) or because they just don’t get used much. At the bottom of this post are links to the unit counts of the 1940 games and unit count from 1942 - for the units that are included in 1942, will there be enough?

    A. Are the tanks, arty, and fighters that the Germans get (12/8/8) in 1942 enough?
    B. What about the Russians (10/8/8). I’ve heard that they run out of artillery.
    C. Are 8 fighters, 6 arty, and 6 tanks enough for Japan?
    D. How many ships do the Japanese need: are 6 each trans, dest, and sub + 4 each Cruiser, BB and CV sufficient?
    E. Do UK and US need the double numbers they get from the 1940 sets?

    Europe 1940 count: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=19828.0
    Pacific 1940 count: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=16056.0

    US:
    15 Infantry
    6 Artillery
    6 Armor
    8 P-38 Fighters
    6 S. Bombers
    6 Submarines
    6 Destroyers
    4 Cruisers
    4 Battleships
    4 Aircraft Carriers
    6 Transports

    Japan:
    20 Infantry
    6 Artillery
    6 Armor
    8 Fighters
    4 S. Bombers
    6 Submarines
    6 Destroyers
    4 Cruisers
    4 Battleships
    4 Aircraft Carriers
    6 Transports

    UK:
    20 Infantry
    6 Artillery
    8 Armor
    8 Fighters
    6 S. Bombers
    6 Submarines
    6 Destroyers
    4 Cruisers
    4 Battleships
    2 Aircraft Carriers
    6 Transports

    Germany:
    20 Infantry
    8 Artillery
    12 Armor
    8 Fighters
    4 S. Bombers
    6 Submarines
    6 Destroyers
    4 Cruisers
    2 Battleships
    2 Aircraft Carriers
    6 Transports

    USSR:
    20 Infantry
    8 Artillery
    10 Armor
    8 Fighters
    2 S. Bombers
    4 Submarines
    4 Destroyers
    2 Cruisers
    2 Battleships
    2 Aircraft Carriers
    4 Transports


  • Customizer

    Hey Foxtrot, I’m going to try and answer your questions as best as I can from my own experience in playing the Global 1940 game.  First of all, if you have a full copy of 1942, I think you will be okay in pieces for the five major nations in Global.  The only missing items would be Mech Inf and Tac Bombers.
    1. FRANCE = You could probably get by with 2 pieces each of fighters, tanks and artillery.  I would say 3-4 just to play it safe, in case France gets liberated or doesn’t fall in round 1 and actually has a chance to purchase units.
        ANZAC = 3-4 each of tanks and artillery would probably be okay here too.  ANZAC stays in the game longer than France but they have a low income so don’t buy quite as much.  However, ANZAC starts the game with 3 fighters so you might want to have 5 or 6 to play with.
        ITALY = The Italians can be more active than ANZAC or France so you would probably want more artillery, tanks and fighters for them, especially if they beat the Brits and start taking over Africa and the Middle East.  I would say a minimum of 6 of each piece would be good, 8-10 would be better.
    2. FRANCE = France starts the game with 2 DDs and 2 CAs so you need at least that much.  A couple of subs and transports wouldn’t hurt.  I imagine you could do without any capital ships for France.
        ANZAC = I would suggest you have a little more navy with ANZAC.  4 transports, 4 subs, 2-4 DDs, 2 CAs and 1 or 2 BBs and CVs would probably do you just fine.
        ITALY = Italy starts out with a pretty strong navy (1 BB, 2 CA, 2 DD, 1 SS and 3 Transports).  So, for the Italians, I would suggest having at least one CV, 2 BBs, 4 CAs, 4-6 DDs and SSs and at least 6 transports.
    4. Subs for Germany = I would say at least have 10.  They start out with 5 and Germany will want to keep building new ones to keep pressure on England.
    5,7.  Tac Bombers for Germany = 9 should be good.
    6.  Tac Bombers for Japan = 10 should be good.
    8.  The BBs from the early Europe and Pacific games are a little shorter than the current ones except for the Japanese.  The Jap BBs are the same size.  Also, the Russian BBs in Europe, Revised and Anniversary games are simply the British Royal Oak Class in Russian color.  It wasn’t until the 1942 game that they came out with an actual Soviet style of BB, the Gangut class.
    9.  Fighters for Japan = Japan starts the game with fighters in 6 different territories plus 3 on carriers.  That’s a total of 9 pieces even with chips.  I would say if you could get about at least 15 fighters for Japan, you would probably be okay.
    10.  Strategic Bombers = 4 for any nation should be plenty.
    11.  Capital Ships = This one is kind of hard to answer.  Japan starts out with 3 carriers and 2 battleships.    UK starts out with 1 carrier and 3 battleships.  USA only starts with 1 of each but  will surely build more to compete with Japan.  I would say 4 of each for USA and Japan.  For the UK, 4 BBs and 2 CVs would be okay.
    12.  Tac Bombers = Yeah, the UK doesn’t use tacs much.  They only start out with 2.  The main nations that use tacs alot would be Germany and Japan, followed by USA and maybe Russia.  3 pieces for the rest of the nations should be okay.
    13.  Mech Inf = You could probably go light on the Mechs (3-4 pieces)  for UK, ANZAC, France and Italy.  USA starts the game with 4 so you would probably want a few more for them.  I don’t see Japan as needing very many, but maybe that’s just how we play Japan in my game group.  You definitely want more for Germany and Russia.  They both use a lot.
    14.  Artillery for China = The game book says you just use US artillery for China so if you have plenty of US artillery, you will do just fine.  However, if you are planning on getting separate artillery pieces specifically for China, 5-6 should be plenty.  If Japan is playing aggressive, they usually shut down the Burma Road and keep it closed in which case China can’t buy artillery.

    On your questions about the 1942 game piece counts, I would say the answers to questions A, B, C and D would be yes.  Those amounts, plus chips, should be sufficient.  As for Question E, No, the US and UK do not need the double amounts of pieces that they get if you get an Pacific 1940 and a Europe 1940.  It’s just that both the US and UK are in each of those theaters so they need a full set in each game so they can be played (and purchased) separately.  Imagine if you only wanted to play Pacific 1940 but you HAD to buy Europe 1940 just to get US and UK playing pieces, or visa-versa.

    Well, I hope this helps you.  I would still like to recommend that eBay seller “boboshonda” for sets of the lesser countries pieces.  I think that would be a big help in your quest.  Good luck.



  • I guess if I was in your position, I would use classic game pieces for the new countries:

    Old Germans are gray I think, they could be Italians, Old Russians would be good for Anzac. Old UK for India,  Old U.S. for China, France could be old Japanese or Fortress America Southern Invaders.

    France seldom builds units, in fact all you really need are some infantry for later African moves. Tactical bombers if you do not care could be fortress America bomber pieces, use some helicopters for smaller countries if they need any.

    I rarely see many tactical bomber builds. Maybe Russia, and America might build some. Carriers and destroyers are built a lot in my games. Since transports are non combatants in 1940, just use transports as Destroyers, I rarely build cruisers, so just use a battleship with a penny underneath it as a cruiser. Just use paper to represent transports. Not sure if this is a good idea, but mechanized units can be risk pieces or even monopoly houses…

    Just a few tips with not too much insight. Hope this helps.


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