1/2 Dozen American Subs in Sz 97 Bankrupt Italy

  • Last game I destroyed the Italian fleet and squashed their NO’s with a steady stream of American submarines. I parked 6 in Sz97 and it bankrupted Italy (12 IPCs) per turn and spelled the end for the remaining forces in Africa.

    *Remember subs can pass through the strait of Gibraltar without owning Gibraltar

  • yup.  kind of crazy.  I feel the convoy box concept is flawed.

    and yes, in my games as the allies I’ve parked a fleet in sz97 every game.  watched Italy collect 4ipcs per round the rest of the game.  :lol:

  • That’s assuming the US has naval superiority in the Mediterranean, because otherwise Italy could send a small fleet to deal with it (not that the US has trouble there).  But -12 for one sea zone (and technically I think that only requires 2 subs) is a lot, especially for Italy.

  • Well, the  rule revisers better jump on this, another flaw discovered!

    A  new setup and new rules should be drafted to prevent that from happening.

    In my experience Italy has not yet won Axis and Allies with these OOB rules,

    let’s give Italy a chance

    better devise Gamma to address this flaw!!

    And besides too why not give Italy more tanks in North Africa to make it fair against the UK in Egypt;

    A nice new bomber fleet is appropriate too

    The sky is falling. Stop the presses.

    Please more rules and revisions.  I’m begging you rule revisers.

    You can do it in the new Alpha Super Duper Official Rules revisions.

    It will be great whenever Axis and Allies players in the future get together, no one will be able to play

    becz everyone will be playing a different rules version.

    It will be great, the only game in history with a different rules set for each owner of the game

    and endorsed by Krieghund and Larry Harris too!!

  • @Gargantua:

    1 destroyer + planes.

    Who cares about the rest.

    I HOPE America builds subs. What a terrible strategy.

    Hmmmmmmm I seem to recall a F2F game in Aldergrove with you (Gargantua) playing the Italians. I believe your entire Italian Navy was wiped off the map by the host player’s American sub fleet. At the time you seemed to have forgotten that his subs could pass through the strait of Gibraltar without owning Gibraltar. Hence you lost every Italian ship on the board. Hence I think it is a viable strategy.

  • TripleA

    that and subs can roll a 1 on defense.

  • I don’t think the convoy disruption setup is flawed. It works well as an alternative to strategic bombing.

    I’ve wanted to try using subs in the Med for awhile but haven’t got the opportunity yet. It seems like a great way to remove Italy from the game without very many repercussions. To help it happen the Allies would want:

    1. The Italian fleet destroyed.
    2. Italy owning Southern France, not Germany.
    3. 8-9 subs in the Med.

    Between the UK and USA they should be able to get that many subs down there eventually (even the Russian sub could help out). You would need some surface warships in sz97 to defend while the subs are getting setup but after that Italy is broke so they’re not going to be buying any destroyers. I guess they could start taking Russian territories but that’s going to take awhile.

    You could even keep a small fleet in sz96 and keep some airforce on Malta. Then they can move into sz97 and help defend if need be.

  • I think the spirit of the convoy box rules was to give the German subs a more historical function.  In past A&A games all they have been able to do is attack warships.  Now they can do what they were built to do.  But that is not what really happens in G40.  Usually its the allies employing them vs axis convoy boxes.  What I mean by “flawed” is that the allies can eliminate a ton of axis ipc’s once the axis is landlocked to continental Europe.  Seems like a gamey tactic.

    On the other hand, the system works out well in the pacific.

  • In my past games I think I focused on taking africa too much with Italy. I think controlling the med should be the #1 priority for Italy. If the allies need to build a lot of warships in the atlantic to take out Italy’s Navy then they are either building less in the Pacific or they are are not building land units for D-day/torch etc.

  • @M7574:

    yup.  kind of crazy.  I feel the convoy box concept is flawed.

    and yes, in my games as the allies I’ve parked a fleet in sz97 every game.  watched Italy collect 4ipcs per round the rest of the game.   :lol:

    Get off my coattails rook

  • rook?  :lol:  I may be new to this board but I have played a lot of games vs some of the best of the best.

    Not riding your coat tails, just agreeing with you.  I don’t park subs exclusively though, its always been a surface fleet too.  Need one to protect the transport(s) invading the balkans.  Subs don’t protect trannies. 😛

  • @Gargantua:

    you seemed to have forgotten that his subs could pass through the strait of Gibraltar without owning Gibraltar

    I didn’t forget the rule, I was wholly unaware of it’s exsistence.  I believe it was an Alpha addition.  Yes a mistake.   And no you didn’t wipe the fleet, you wholly damaged it,  And you still failed to control gibraltar, or keep a significant amount of subs in the med.

    And it certainly didn’t stop the Axis from winning that game either, so yea, the strategy is BAD.

    You should have been building men and transports instead of Subs.

    The straits rule is clearly stated in the manual, there is even an example that mentions Gibraltar.

    For the record; that was the F2F game in Aldergrove just prior to Xmas not the game in this post. I (Idi Amin) was playing the UK not the USA. You (Gargantua) played Germany and Italy. It was the USA player (the host and a rookie) who completely decimated your spiffy Italian fleet East of Gibraltar. Control of Gibraltar is a moot point when attacking with sub fleets into the Med.

    Axis victory you say?? Wow what game were you playing in?!? And as far as an Axis victory goes….I recall NO Sealion, Japan having NO navy AND air force, China HUGE, ANZAC/India controlling ALL the money islands, Britain building tanks in South Africa, Russia holding Norway and Finland and Italy with NO FLEET. If you call that was an Axis victory will you please give me a ride in your invisible helicopter sometime?

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