• @JamesAleman:

    Regarding Alpha .+2:
    Please reply with what I am missing. I know everyone can’t be wrong about the apparent balance. Does U.S. as i suspect go Europe first early and then switch?

    Well, you’ve taken the thread a completely different direction. Make a new thread and put down exactly what both sides are doing. ABattlemap maps would help. I’m guessing you’ve got some real head scratchers with the Allies.

  • '10

    @Emperor:

    Countering Germany:
    A nice Russian CV and DD on R1 is a real deterent to Operation Sea Lion.
    UK builds 2DD in Canada and Infantry in UK on UK1.

    I apologize for taking part in the Hi-jacking of this thread, but since it seems to be dead now, i am just too curious to let it pass without asking :

    How can these R1 and UK1 buy be a “real deterent” to operation Sea Lion ?

    Could you explain to me what you are doing with those boat to counter Sea Lion please ?

  • '18 '17 '16 '15 Customizer

    Yes: my playgroup and I only play OOB.

    Because:
    a) I am the only one of us on this forum
    b) I haven’t even looked at any Alpha setups yet and
    c) we haven’t discovered a major issue with OOB

    I also play occasionally with some friends who had until December only known of the original and AA Revised… so to them, the balance issues were probably not even noticed. Even in my typical group, there aren’t huge issues playing OOB because we only get to play about once every two months on average… so who cares about alternate setups. Granted if you play with a bunch hardcore experts who have each turn down to a planned science, the experience changes. Such people, as many of you seem to be, are more seroius about the game. Not that we are not serious, because we are by no means amateurs, but ‘how to make AA more balanced’ is not our crusade.

    My other issue with the whole balance thing is this: whoever said the fight was, or was supposed to be, fair? And what kind of balance are we aiming for here? Starting balance… overall game experience balance… ideal balance after so many turns? To make the game in such a way that both sides have equal chance of victory seems ahistorical. I am not saying the Axis had no chance of victory from the start, because of course they had a chance, but not in a prolonged conflict; which is what the War became and what this game, Axis & Allies, models. The Axis ran wild up to 1941-42… then they started sucking it up once the 2 industrial behemoths entered the war. The Axis’ only real hope of victory lay not in a conquered Allies, but in Allies who would at some point be fed up with war and ask for peace. Historically, Germany and Japan could never have attempted invasion of the United States, hoped to go over the Urals to fight Russia, attack deep into China and do the many host of things in between to even get to considering these things… it just was not possible. The Allies on the other hand had the resources, manpower and logistical capacity to move across the world and defeat their foes.

    My point being here, we should probably look at changing victory conditions, rather than focus on battle winning and unit balance. I suppose people could disprove or discredit me on my statements here because I have neither looked at or played the revised setups… so I can’t speak from experience. But what I have read over the past… well since August… seems to be all about the Axis not having an equal shot at victory. What kind of victory that is, I am not sure. My group generally plays for Total Victory because the game lasts longer that way, and it is much more challenging.

    OOB Axis chances for Total Victory are as good as nothing. Major Victory is still quite a long shot. Minor victory is somewhat achievable if all goes well.

    In a Total or Major Victory sense, the Axis should not have it any easier than a 10-15% chance… if even that much. As for a very ernest look at all this I’d have to do more reading and comparing, but this is what I have to say about it now.

    OOB is good enough for a player such as myself.

  • Customizer

    I am okay with the OOB setup.  Japan may have been a little plane heavy, but when Larry Harris changed the setups, he removed as many Allied planes as he did Japanese planes so it seems to me like the result was the same.

    I do like Japan having more land units in China in the Alpha+2 setup.  I also really like the new NOs and the rules for SBRs and Scrambling.  I always thought it was silly that ONLY airbases on Islands could scramble but not airbases on coastal territories.  In fact, I don’t see why Airbases couldn’t scramble to protect adjacent land territories as well.

  • '18 '17 '16 '15 Customizer

    Some of the rules could be tweaked in my opinion. I haven’t checked out the revised NOs or airbase rules, which I should do.

    For example, China: historically, China was the main theater of war for Japan, and also their back breaker. Therefore China should be difficult to master in the game too. One of the only non-OOB rules we play with in Global 40 is that China is able to purchase and then place it’s units before attacking, just like in Anniversary Ed. This really seems to give China the edge they need against Japan. With stategic Allied help China can really mess with Japan in continental Asia. And it accounts for some of the difficulty that China posed.

    OOB China is pretty weak, so more Japanese units in Asia seems overly gratuitous.


  • actually, until alpha doesn´t become beta becoming official, i won´t change anything yet. it is interesting enough to play OOB and to discover the map´s “secrets”.


  • yeah i feel the same way about alpha.  I have tried pacific and like it but am waiting till europe is finalized because my group prefers to play global


  • What does OOB mean?

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    It’s a TRAP to identify people on the forums who are nOOBs,

    Because they all ask… :P

    OOB = Out of Box.


  • My friend and I find that…

    1. OOB is Allied heavy because:

    • The US gets way too many IPCs after it enters the war.
    • The US builds a major IC in Norway and outputs a ludicrous amount of units because of point 1 above.

    2. Alpha +.2 is Axis heavy because:

    • Italy runs rampant all over Africa and the Middle East, at one point it outproduced the US!
    • Germany runs rampant over the USSR with its extra units (inf, planes) and the major IC in Germany.

    Someone on the forum mentioned that alpha +.1 is balanced, has anyone else noticed this?

  • '17 '16 Customizer

    Well, I have only played OOB since I bought the game. 6 games later and I don’t think the game is broke. I’ve won playing both sides. I’ve been playing A&A for year against one freind of mine. We’re quite good at. Once all the dust settle and the Alpha rules quite changing, we’ll give it a try. One twist we like to put in all versions of A&A is no new IC’s.

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