Germany Strategy – How does this sound? (relative newbie)

Axis & Allies Classic
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  • S

    I’ve been playing with my friends for a while now, on a semi-regular basis, and I’m just starting to grasp some of the more advanced aspects of the game… We play Restricted Russia and 2 hit BB (repaired at end of turn), otherwise, standard 2nd editions rules… No bid (although I think it’s probably coming soon).

    I know that G1 and G2 have been talked to death here, and many of you are probably sick of it, but I’d really like to hear what someone outside of my group thinks about this.

    When we play, Russia will usually pull all but 1 inf from Cacusus to Kariella, all but 1 inf from the Soviet far East to Yakut, pull All tanks to Novosibersk (sp?), stack Yakut with 6 INF, and stack Kariella with everything else (including the 2 FIT)… The sub and trn from Kariella will go to the UK sea zone.

    I want to, within the first 2 or 3 turns, deploy enough force to Africa to discourage the Allies from landing until they can do so with significant force (which then can’t land in Europe) and be poised to strafe Kariella with little risk to my ARM by G3/G4.

    G1:
    Buy 10 INF, save $2.

    Combat

    Non-Combat

    Place Units
    4 INF SEu (In case by some miracle both TRNs survive until G2, I can drop 4 more into Africa), 7 INF GER

    African forces are: 2 ARM, 1 FIT, 4 INF, with 2 more INF coming G2, all except 3 INF can hit AES on G2 (Probably looking at GER 3 INF, 2 ARM, 1 FIT (possible BMB) vs. UK 2 or 3 INF (2 from IND via. TRN or 1 from Syria/Iraq), 1 ARM, 1 FIT (India))… According to my #s, I should take with 1 ARM, 1 FIT), and a good chance that I have a TRN left to land 2 more INF in ALG on G3. By G4, I should be able to control all of Africa, with about 3 INF, 1 ARM… The FIT can return to EEu on G3, to hit LEN on G4.

    EEu is strong enough to discourage an R2 attack (8 ARM, 9 INF, 2 FIT)
    I should be able to trade Caucusus/UKR using a couple of INF and a FIT during G2/G3, buying INF the whole time (and a FIT, if the Allies buy something dumb), for a G4 strafe on LEN, and take & hold it on G5 (assuming that Japan is able to force an R5 build in Moscow instead of LEN). WEu should be well defended (8 - 12 INF, 2 - 4 FIT) on G4, GER and EEu should also be well defended. The allies should be forced to choose between hitting WEu (which they can probably take for a turn) or losing Kariella for good…

    I should be able to re-hit the USUK fleet in the UK Sea Zone on G5 as well, with 4 or 5 FIT, possibly a BMB, and the BB (with a TRN as fodder), forcing another “burp” in the WEu/Spain/Finland INF supply lines (possibly giving me enough time to rebuild a FIT or three by the time they’re coming strong again)…

    Obviously, after G1, I’d have to react to what the allies did, and take advantage of any opportunities that exist… I’d like to hear what people have to say (particularly Darth Maximus & Cystic Crypt) about the G1 move, and what I’m missing (i.e. what opportunity is created for the Allies on their Turn 1 move)… I know that leaving the Eastern US transport alive is probably a mistake, and I’m leaving my Finnish transport all by itself (but that’s usually dead UK1 anyway). I don’t think that I’m sacrificing too much flexibility (is the FIT in Algeria a bad idea)? What am I missing?

    Thanks in advance…

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  • C

    I don’t really know what to tell you but I have an answer to you Finnish transport dillema. When you make your G1 British navy assault don’t send the transport. You might take the hits on your sub and maybe a plane but its worth it. Assuming you destroy the fleet during non combat moves transport 2inf from germany or whatever you can spare and ship them down to algeria. This frorces the allies to deal with it (otherwise they can just send transports with guys but they now cant cause their transports would be considered to be attacking yours, and transports can’t attack on their own.) also you now have 2 inf defending western africa which will force the allies to send a greater force and allow your other africa guys to eat up the IPC’s 8) . Another thing is try to make comments to the allies to get them to ignore the transport make them see it as harmless, and if their stupid enough to not go for it, Brazil is yours G2 BAM!!! Oh yes america will hate to have to go all the way down and take back Brazil, Tee Hee Hee :wink:

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  • B

    It’s a fairly balanced scenario. I’m a real numbers guy and I hope you enjoy the following 2 cents.

    1 fighter against 1 transport:
    Win: 72%
    Lose: 14%
    Mutual destruction: 14%

    1 Bomber against 1 transport
    Win: 77%
    Lose: 8%
    Mutual destruction: 14%

    So it is wise to use the fighter rather than the bomber, for 5% more offense you risk losing 100% of your bombers.

    The bomber should land on W. Europe, this prevents the US player from building a transport per round. The US player wants to do this because for every transport he build there must be 2 ‘loads’ built, one to go and one to move up for next round. The US player is already building for existing transports so the most effective way to avoid hiccups is to build a transport every round or 2 every 3 rounds. That lone bomber in western europe makes that rather tough.

    I might have 1 ARM and 1 INF in W europe rather than 2 INF. With 3-4 ftrs, bmr and AA, 2 land units is lots to defend against a single transport with 1-2 air units on round 1. The infantry is slower to move up against the russians so move the infantry first. Of course you lose the attack power of the armour against karelia so its really a coin toss.

    I don’t like leaving the tank in Congo exposed to Brit attack, is it really that important to get 1 IPC and risk losing the armour? That 1 armour with 1 ftr and bomber would give two land units a good go:

    36% likely to knock out 2 units with no losses.
    45% knock out 2 units and lose the tank
    15% knock out 2 units lose a ftr and a tank, sucks but oh well.

    Other than that I like it.

    2 hit BBs I think hurts germany more than it helps Japan.

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  • S

    Thanks for the input, BigBlocky… I see what you’re saying about the Bomber… I hadn’t thought of that… When we play, the US will generally build 2 or 3 TRNs on turn 1… There’s just enough stuff sitting there to fill them up for US2, and 3 TRNs is enough to discourage me from attacking with a lone bomber…

    I’m a bit perplexed about the following:

    <-- snip -->
    I might have 1 ARM and 1 INF in W europe rather than 2 INF. With 3-4 ftrs, bmr and AA, 2 land units is lots to defend against a single transport with 1-2 air units on round 1. The infantry is slower to move up against the russians so move the infantry first. Of course you lose the attack power of the armour against karelia so its really a coin toss.
    <-- snip -->

    I generally try to build up W Europe over the course of the game, diverting 1 or 2 INF there per turn from Germany to defend against an allied assault… I almost never move the INF that start there… All the UK can do is throw planes (2 fighters and a bomber) against me on their turn 1, and the US can only bring 1 TRN with 1 FIT and 1 BMB… Are you suggesting that I move the INF from Western Europe to the Russian front? I don’t like the idea of leaving it undefended/poorly defended… I like to make the allies pay a large price to take Western Europe (at least the first time), and this usually requires a fairly good sized stack of INF…

    I also usually won’t hit Kariella until at least G3… Not enough INF in the pipeline to take and hold until that point, and a G2 strafe usually hurts me as much or more than it hurts them… Do you feel that I should be playing more aggressively in the East?

    <-- snip -->
    I don’t like leaving the tank in Congo exposed to Brit attack, is it really that important to get 1 IPC and risk losing the armour? That 1 armour with 1 ftr and bomber would give two land units a good go:

    36% likely to knock out 2 units with no losses.
    45% knock out 2 units and lose the tank
    15% knock out 2 units lose a ftr and a tank, sucks but oh well.
    <-- snip -->

    I think that you’re right about the ARM in Africa… Without the extra dollar, I should have (barring strategic bombing) enough to buy 12 INF on G2 without it…

    <-- snip -->
    2 hit BBs I think hurts germany more than it helps Japan.
    <-- snip -->

    You may be right about this… I’ve left the UK BB in Gibralter alone in the past, and losing 1 extra INF per attack on my European territories (not really, but it sure seems like it) is a pain… That’s why I wanted to try this out, to see if it makes much of a difference to take it out…

    Aside from generally not losing anything during the initial assault on Hawaii, I’ve never found 2 hit BBs to benefit Japan much at all, unless they can come through Panama / around South America to threaten the USUK fleet… And generally by the time that happens, the game has already been decided… I’ve toyed with the idea of sending one of the Jap TRNs with the fleet to Hawaii (not to land, but to position INF for a taking of Panama on J2 or J3 (my board’s put away, I forget how many sea zones away it is) to try to slip the Jap fleet through to disrupt shipping in the Atlantic earlier, but I have a hard time seeing how Japan can pressure Russia early enough to help Germany without landing 4 INF on J1…

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  • S

    Commissar Adam

    Thanks for the input…

    I agree on the Finnish transport… I only have it for a turn, so I might as well do something with it… If I’m landing a FIT in Algeria, and 2 INF via TRN from Southern Europe, do you think that 2 additional INF from Finland are more beneficial than an ARM? With 2 ARM in Africa, I should be able to blitz around and own the whole continent by G3/G4 (assuming 1 turn they’re both used for an attack on AES)… I think that there’s a good chance of the Southern Europe TRN surviving for G2, as it’s parked with a 2 hit battleship, so I should be able to land 2 more INF on G3…

    I’m afraid that my group has already learned that any German transport, anywhere on the board is dangerous… I don’t think that they’d leave one that’s alone off the coast of Algeria alive… Even if it meant diverting the 2 FIT from the UK and landing them somewhere other than Kariella…

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  • ?

    @BigBlocky:

    I’m a real numbers guy

    How unimaginary :) ;) :D ;)…. (no offense, i just had to do this not too funny pun)

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  • cystic cryptC

    @F_alk:

    @BigBlocky:

    I’m a real numbers guy

    How unimaginary :) ;) :D ;)…. (no offense, i just had to do this not too funny pun)

    ug!!
    a little too cute.

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  • ?

    To “he who forms tight bonds with nazi-like people”…… You have alot to say for a guy who doesn’t seem to play Axis and Allies much. I offered to ‘let things go’, it seems you are unwilling or unable to accept this. As for your no offense comment, if I thought you were trying to be funny or if we were friends I would not take offense. But since we are not friends nor were you really trying to be funny it is offensive, albietly mildly.

    BB

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  • ?

    And that just proves you should always log on so you can edit your post properly!!! A need a coffee STAT!!! :-)

    BB

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  • B

    Shiny, about my comment about W. Europe (WEU) on Round 1. I’m assuming that the brits and US have 1 transport each that can hit on round #1. Only the US bomber can hit and of course the brits have 2 ftrs and a bomber along with 2 INF that can hit. I think you left 2 INF in WEU in your scenario right? It’s such a slight change it’s probably not even worth typing about it but…. Yes, you will have to build up WEU as the allies increase their fleet size, but on R1 you can take the risk to go light with land units and heavy with air.

    My thinking is that if you have a mix of armour and infantry you get the required defence but the armour can move and threaten Karelia the next round where infantry can’t. The drawback is the armour on WEU cannot threaten Karelia this round. Perhaps on R1 it’s not even worth thinking about but later on as you plan an attack on Karelia you might think about moving INF off WEU and replace them with armour so as to get more units to bear later on.

    Again, it has such little impact on round 1 I probably ought not to have even mentioned it!

    BB

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  • YannyY

    Your G1 works pretty well. Not much to change, except you might want to consider not blitzing the tank all the way to the Belgian Congo. It can easily be destroyed by the Uk on UK1, slowing down your Africa offensive (this is assuming the UK player abandons Indian on UK1). UK player would attack Belgian Congo w/ 2 inf 1 Tank and land the 2 Inf from Indian, 1 Inf from Syria, and 1 ftr from India in Egypt. You could attack Egypt, but it would put a decent dent in your Afrika Corps.

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  • B

    OK, I didn’t get the pun RE: Real numbers and Unimaginary and over-reacted. My bad.

    BB

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  • S

    With the modification of not blitzing the tank through to Congo…

    It worked fairly well, for the most part… I lost my BB and TRN in the WMed SZ on UK1, but the US left the other TRN alive to use the BMB to hit an ARM in FWA…

    A Question: Am I allowed to unload 1 INF during combat (Gibralter) and a second INF during non-combat (Algeria). The transport doesn’t have to move from the sea zone, so I think it should be legal. but I’m not sure…

    If I can do that, I will use this strategy again… If not, I’ll have to write it off as a learning experience.

    I took Africa pretty quickly, although I never did pick up the southern tip. 1 UK INF just sat there until late game, killing 1 ARM, 1 ARM, and 2 INF before I decided that the $2 just wasn’t worth it any more… Next time, I’ll hit it with a concerted force, a turn later (2 ARM)…

    I was able to trade Caucusus/Ukraine for most of the game with Russia. Western Europe fell once, at turn 5. I took it back and never lost it again on G6. Took and held Kariella on G6 as well, after strafing from Eastern Europre during G3, G4, and G5. The Allies played fairly agressivly in Asia, slowing Japan significantly (They had about 6 ARM and 3 - 4 INF in Asia when the game ended), but that certainly took the pressure off me as Germany… I was able to take Russia on G8, and the USUK attempted an invasion of Germany on the same turn. I held with 3 INF, 4 FTR remaining… Japan then captured the Eastern US with 4 TRN (4 INF, 2 ARM), 1 BB, 1 CV, 2 FTR, 2 BMB as the US went after Germany instead of looking to defend (I probably would have done the same), taking all of the US $$$… The US took it back right away, but conceded the game, as they had no reinforcements to bring to Europe, I was (once again) starting to threaten an empty-ish Africa, and Japan had a well stocked airbase in Hawaii…

    All in all, a pretty good game. I think that landing the 2 INF to Algeria on G1 was STUPID!!! My BB and TRN were within range of 2 UK FTR and the UK BMB, as well as the SUB from the EMed. If I am allowed to split the INF, 1 to Gibralter and 1 to Algeria, I would open like this again, as the UK FTRs could not reach me without Gibralter to land in…

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  • B

    RE: transport dropping off. A transport cannot drop off 2 infantry into two different territories during combat, you only want to drop off one so that obviously is ok. The rule states that during non-combat any unit that has not moved can move. I’d say the infantry like a fighter could leave the ‘mother’ ship even if the ship had moved it’s full 2 moves and/or did combat. During non-combat you CAN drop 2 infantry from 1 transport into two different territories, just can’t do it during combat.

    A tactict for South Africa. If you can, try taking Kenya with an infantry and take congo with an armour. I know how tempting it is to think “I’ll be up 2 IPC and he is down 2 IPC and I just want to get it over!”. Be patient. Some statistics.

    1 Tank attacking 1 Infantry
    50% You win
    25% You lose
    25% Both destroyed.

    1 Tank, 1 Infantry attacking 1 Infantry
    53% You win with no losses
    37% You win with loss of 1 INF
    5% Both destroyed
    5% You lose

    With a single tank you only have a 50% chance of somthing good and there is a 25% of something very bad. Even if you are both gone, it takes awhile to get more units down there and tanks are precious, heck all german units in africa are precious and must be nursed. That extra infantry decreases catastrophe by a factor of 5 and nearly doubles the probablity of an acceptable outcome.

    As for the German Med fleet, I am a huge fan of bring the BB and Loaded transport against the brit sub. This of course relies on extra units in Libya and having libya attack Egypt with the amphib assult. There is always a drawback, and here it means using both baltic naval units against the Brit fleet around Britain and the german sub in the atlantic attacking the southern bit BB with an air unit. If the brit sub hits and you hit, take off the BB, you transport really can’t be easily attacked unless they want to land their air units in Syria, right next to a stack of german land units.

    All and all it sounds like you did a good job, congrats!

    BB

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