German opening -taking Paris and planing to invade UK


  • Hi all

    And thx for all your input 🙂 I put them all together and now I think
    this must be almost perfect. There are 2 pictures:
    Attack and after attack, the result are done with AAbattle cal.

    Any of you played this opening or have any comments  🙂

    Best regards henrik - and thx for you feed back
    …and by the way I made the dumps in Photoshop 🙂

    Attack move
    http://img696.imageshack.us/i/classicgermanopening.jpg/

    After attack
    http://img708.imageshack.us/i/classicgermanopening2.jpg/

    If you skip invade UK, transporters at 113 could attack Yvborg or Baltic States
    to participate in tha “Barbarossa”


  • I’ll be making a similar opening move in a game this weekend, except I’ll be leaving the UK BB and CV in SZ 111 intact and taking out the destroyer (hopefully) in SZ 109 and I’ll definitely take out the 2 CR’s in SZ 112.

    The BB and CV cannot flee out of range of your planes and subs in round 1, so you can finish off anything you miss in the first round, and still have all your planes intact.  I’ll let you know how it goes.


  • also planning to buy 1 carrier and 2 transporter?

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    :S

    Want to play online?  You are going to get worked with this opener, unless your opponent is of the same skill level as yourself.

    By all means good luck however.


  • to much uk fleet left unkilled for me!  :mrgreen:


  • @Panz3r:

    to much uk fleet left unkilled for me!  :mrgreen:

    Hear hear!

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Which ones are tacticals, which one is the strategic?  I guess it doesnt “matter” but I like to know since the strategic has more range and thus, could have more or less possibilities depending where you put it.

    Also, I am pretty sure they will be making the scramble rules for Europe 40 the same as Global 40, so you should probably start accounting for scrambled fighters from London in your calculations

  • Customizer

    If you are using OOB rules, then look at the thread Sealion 1.0 as a template for Sealion.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20231.0

    You can take Paris and still wipe out the fleet.  I’ve modified this somewhat since I posted this to improve the odds.

    It is even more doable in this ‘alpha 2’


  • Hi Jim 010 + rest  🙂

    Very intresting set up, I can see, Germany have to take out the UK fleet in R1.
    I have made a dump of German R1 sea moves, couldn´t find the modifications
    for German first move ….looks nice!!

    http://img820.imageshack.us/i/jim010sealion.jpg/

    Thx  🙂

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @jim010:

    If you are using OOB rules, then look at the thread Sealion 1.0 as a template for Sealion.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20231.0

    You can take Paris and still wipe out the fleet.  I’ve modified this somewhat since I posted this to improve the odds.

    It is even more doable in this ‘alpha 2’

    I am confused as to what is being said in that thread, perhaps you could lay it out in a different format?

    For Example:

    1. SZ 110 is being attacked by….

    2. By using LL rationale, I expect to have the following equipment after the battle.

    3. Your builds were…

    4. Your round 2 plan is…(or round 3)

    I’m confused as to what round you attack, and what you attack…specifically.  I am also interested in what you think your opponent might do to stop you or recover.

  • Customizer

    Got your PM.

    For sz111 - hit with 1 more sub

    For sz110 - hit with 1 more sub

    Skip sz106

    Hit Normandy with 1 inf, 1 art

    Hit Paris with 5 inf, 4 mec, 1 art, 5 tanks

    Hit yugo with 5 inf, 3 tanks

    If you have to lose planes, and I think you would lose maybe 1, then lose fht.

    OF course occupy Fin and Bulg.

    In turn 2 you buy 9 TT.  All 8 tanks come back to West Germany along with 3 art and 11 inf to load for the next turn.

    You could buy 1 CV and 2 TT on turn 1, but then you have to hold back the CA and move it to sz110 in NCM.

    Odds for taking London in OOB with this are 80% if Germany loses no planes and UK gets everything back to London.

    Cheers

  • Customizer

    I’m confused as to what round you attack, and what you attack….specifically.  I am also interested in what you think your opponent might do to stop you or recover.

    Not sure if you have seen the original thread, but if you go there, I have outlined everything as you asked.  Only difference is I no longer hit sz106, so my odds are improved in sz111 and sz110.

    As for counter moves, UK must buy 9 inf round 1.  If I buy the TTs on round 2, UK must buy 10 inf.

    Hitting the German fleet in sz112 is not a winning battle for UK, and UKs fhts will have been stripped, boosting the odds of a successful Sealion to 97%.

    I’ve had players try to block me, but there is no way of blocking me, and there isn’t enough fleet to put in sz110 that Germany can’t eat through it and still land.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yes…that’s OOB I believe and what is an “1 AP”  Is it a typo?

    (Purchase 1 SS, 1 CV and 1 AP you said.)

    SO you are talking a round 2 attack on London, which is kinda pushing it I think, but I guess it’s possible with what you outlined.  Hard to tell, I do not have the OOB Global map for Battlemap and I refuse to open my game boxes (they’re worth more factory sealed…I have some of every game released, the whole collection to date all factory sealed).  But looking at the Alpha 2 map (most recent incarnation of the rules) I guess it’s possible.

    Thing is, I’d like to see the game so a major nation’s capitol could not be conquered within 3 rounds, given normal tactics and dice. (normal tactics being such that you do not move your units out of the way and leave the capitol undefended allowing your opponent to blitz in unopposed.  I mention this because I did this with a friend in a 5 player game, he ceeded Russia and Germany jumped to super power immediately (All that unspent Russian cash + free territoires, he moved everything to SFE and stacked it there. lol.))

    I wonder, with what you have mentioned being there, and with 100% build in London, would +5 starting infantry in London even be enough?  Would it be better to have +3 infantry +3 armor maybe?  I do not want to buff England too much, it should be crushable by round 5 (1 round after America enters the war, give them a chance to get units there to defend England too) and every ground unit you add will eventually have to be killed or would be used against you, thus giving England more cash.  What if we moved some starting units to England from say, Canada where they do nothing?  It’s not as much as I am thinking we need, but at least it is not “more” right?

  • Customizer

    @Cmdr:

    Yes…that’s OOB I believe and what is an “1 AP”  Is it a typo?

    (Purchase 1 SS, 1 CV and 1 AP you said.)

    Not sure if your addressing me or Wagner.  But I believe AP is a transport.

    SO you are talking a round 2 attack on London, which is kinda pushing it I think, but I guess it’s possible with what you outlined.  Not turn 2 - turn 3.  And there’s little to be done about it.  Not to mention, UK HAS to respond to it, while Germany is not commited until it buys the TTs on turn 2.  Hard to tell, I do not have the OOB Global map for Battlemap and I refuse to open my game boxes (they’re worth more factory sealed….I have some of every game released, the whole collection to date all factory sealed).  But looking at the Alpha 2 map (most recent incarnation of the rules) I guess it’s possible.  Its worse with Global, and its just as bad with Alpha 2.

    Thing is, I’d like to see the game so a major nation’s capitol could not be conquered within 3 rounds, given normal tactics and dice. (normal tactics being such that you do not move your units out of the way and leave the capitol undefended allowing your opponent to blitz in unopposed.  I mention this because I did this with a friend in a 5 player game, he ceeded Russia and Germany jumped to super power immediately (All that unspent Russian cash + free territoires, he moved everything to SFE and stacked it there. lol.))

    I wonder, with what you have mentioned being there, and with 100% build in London, would +5 starting infantry in London even be enough?  It would be.  Would it be better to have +3 infantry +3 armor maybe?  I do not want to buff England too much, it should be crushable by round 5 (1 round after America enters the war, give them a chance to get units there to defend England too) and every ground unit you add will eventually have to be killed or would be used against you, thus giving England more cash.  What if we moved some starting units to England from say, Canada where they do nothing?  It’s not as much as I am thinking we need, but at least it is not “more” right?  Agreed

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yea, I get that Germany can drop 6 to 8 transports in a single round if Germany thinks England is too weak.  I just woulda hoped the Alphas would make it impossible to sucker punch England…it seems a bit ridiculous.  Of course, Germany has to get 8 VCs and that means London, DC or Ottowa I believe, so maybe it was intentional.  Still, shouldnt be hard to move the Ottowa VC to S. France or W. India to make it, theoretically, possible to get from the land.

  • Customizer

    Yea, I get that Germany can drop 6 to 8 transports in a single round if Germany thinks England is too weak.

    What I don’t like is that it is repeatable everytime and very much in favour of the Germans regardless of what UK does.

    Still, shouldnt be hard to move the Ottowa VC to S. France or W. India to make it, theoretically, possible to get from the land.

    I think boosting UK inf to make Sealion a 50% AT BEST (as you suggested), and bidding for VCs is the way to go.  Not this nonsense of ‘alpha’.  Rediculous to redo the set-up and rules AFTER we have all paid $100 for the game.  I don’t like spending good money on a product so I can play test it for Avalon Hill.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    My thought of 1940 Europe changes would be thus:

    1)  Move the Infantry, Armor from Quebec to England

    2)  Move the Infantry from Ontario to England

    3)  Add 3 Infantry to England

    4)  Add 1 to England starting income from 29 to 30.

    Other than that, from the OOB setup, I think you should be fine.  You’ll have 7 Infantry, 1 Armor, 3 Fighters in England before your first round.  With a starting income of 30, you should be able to get 10 infantry on Round 1 for a total of 17 Infantry, 1 Armor, 3 Fighters and an AA Gun.  Hopefully, that would prevent Germany from being able to hit you on Round 3 (since you should have 27+ IPC still for at least 9 more infantry before they can land.)

  • Customizer

    That would be enough for me not to bother with Sealion.

    I’m fine with Sealion being a vialbe part of the game, but it should be a 50% success at best.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I think it would force you to remain until Round 5 or 6 before SeaLion would have 70% or better odds for Germany, which I think should be the goal.  You want America and Russia in the game before SeaLion can be a success in most games, I think.  Otherwise, it’s way too powerful.  As for making it 50/50 by turn three, I don’t think that’s wise either.  There is too much sway in the AA Fire. I’ve had AA Guns kill 5 of 6 bombers and I’ve had over 300 AA Gun misses. (In one game I tallied them, forget which it was, but it was well over 300 misses for the entire game.  It was an Anniversary game I know that.)


  • I have follow most of the the advice from Jim010 set-up
    and it look like this:

    http://img838.imageshack.us/i/jim010sealionv2pic1.jpg/

    The result of R1 German attack I played with myself, and I feelt
    the German not was lucky.

    The result
    http://img543.imageshack.us/i/jim010sealionv2pic2.jpg/

    I must say the situation for UK is very worring, UK have to
    buy 8 INF and 1 ART, even fly the tac-figther to London and
    sail 1 INF and the ARM home from New Brunswick, maybee loosing
    the TT

    Cant wait to play this one on my littel brother!

    If German attack with:
    4 INF
    3 Fighter
    3 Tac bomber
    and the the fleet
    against UK
    10 INF
    3 Fighter

    The odds for Germany victory is 57,5 % victory - capturing London

  • Customizer

    Looks like you are looking at a turn 2 Sealion.

    Odds are WAY better for a turn 3 Sealion.

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