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How often do you attack strict neutrals? and why?



  • I personally have never attacked a strict neutral and don’t really plan too. The consequenses are so huge! So i was curious about everyone else’s games. When and why do you attack strict nuetrals in your games and what were the pros and cons of it?



  • Never done it either. I suppose one does it only when one has already got a decisive advantage or if super desperate but I don’t really see a situation where that might apply.

    Or maybe you are gunning for the seal of the imperial psychopath, and attack EVERYBODY on turn 1 😄


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I’ve seen the Americans do it, because they can land in Spain every game turn.

    However, i’ve been contemplating a new strategy for these, as the axis, that I think will work effectively.  I’ll post more later once I map it out.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Before I continue however… I am S.O.L. for a map in front of me for awhile.

    If someone can help me, I’ll put together a GOOD strategy and business case - for strict neutral invasion.  Why and when you should, and how to make it work to YOUR advantage.

    Can someone make a list, of ALL of the strict neutrals, their IPC worth, and how many units are in them.

    IE.

    Spain +2  6 inf
    Turkey +2 8 inf
    Sweden +3 6 inf
    Rio De Oro  -    -
    Switzerland  -  2 inf

    Something that looks nice… maybe even in excel.  But a chart will go a long way in helping me prove out my math, and neutral theory.


  • '10

    I would never attack them.  Why bring the WHOLE world against you?



  • becasue then in OOB germany has control over entire middle-east through turkey at round 4. make a link-up with japs from india


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Not to mention the kind of things you can do with airbases in Spain and Portugal, to stop the allies from EVER making a landing, or even hoping of entering the med.

    The more you force america to spend on one side or the other, the better your chances keep becoming - as the Axis to win.



  • these all sound like great ideas, but who actually has done some of these things? however, the spanish airfield sounds very interesting. but wouldn’t it be too vulnerable? unless you took russia already and could afford that.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Like I said, someone with a map, make a list of all the places and states, and I will make a game case for it.

    There are several reasons to attack I can outline once I have this information…

    And yes, sometimes when I am just stomping as germany, I invade neutrals.


  • '10

    @Gargantua:

    Like I said, someone with a map, make a list of all the places and states, and I will make a game case for it.

    HolKann posted a high res map in the forums:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=19489.0


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    First of all lets divide the neutrals into ones that matter, and ones that don’t matter.

    Central Mongolian
    Tsagaan
    Uruaguay
    Paraguay
    Bolivia
    Peru
    Eqcuador
    Columbia
    Portuguese Guenia
    Sierra Leone
    Liberia
    Rio De Oro

    All the above listed neutrals have NO value, and NO units, and therefor - for all intensive purposes DON’T matter.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    |
    COUNTRY
    Spain
    Turkey
    Sweden
    Portugal
    Angola
    Mozambique
    Saudi Arabia
    Venezula
    Chile
    Argentina
    Afghanistan
    Switzerland
    Dzavahn
    Olgiy
    Buyant
    Ulaanbaatar | IPC VALUE
    2
    2
    3
    1
    1
    1
    2
    2
    2
    2 | UNITS
    6
    8
    6
    2
    2
    2
    2
    2
    2
    2
    4
    2
    1
    2
    2
    1 |


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Let’s consider a new Axis strategy of Neutral invasion, for monetary and strategic gain.

    ***** BASIC NOTES before a final strategy is revealed *****

    GOALS AND BENEFITS of invading neutral countries.

    1. There are IPC’s to be had.
    2. The Axis has BEST access to Neutrals first, without oppurtunities by the allies to capture them
    3. Neutral Restrictions prevent countries like Russia or the US from activating neutrals early.
    4. There are strategic gains from having territories available - LIKE Turkey - a straight drive into the middle east for OIL.
    5. Neutrals can be invaded during the Lull turns - rounds 2 - rounds 4, when there is OVERWHELMING support to take these territories, and lots of axis equipment rusting away.
    6. It DOESN’T REALLY MATTER if you activate enemy neutrals,  infantry are no good on attack, and usually neutrals only get activated by likely 1 or 2 units,  chances say, you are going to stomp those stacks anyways.
    7. Medium stacks are the BEST way to lose LOTS of units on defense.  Medium stacks should not put fear into your plans.

    Let’s make some more base assumptions.

    1. Lets assume  G1 you build transports, feign sea lion, and do the typical navy wipe.
    2. Lets assume  You are going for an economic strategy, mediteranean/middleeastern control strategy - to beat the allies.
    3. Switzerland is worth nothing, so there is no reason to invade it.

    Consider this, on G2
    Neutrals the axis can get access to first. And likely what turn.
    With a 3 transport build, and mechanized components,  on G2 you can likely invade - with air support

    Spain
    Sweden
    Portugal

    G3
    Turkey
    You could send a contingent to South America, and hit Brazil / and or Argentina etc  from Sz85,

    With a potential factory build down there - Argentina, (LOL I know right) against a “less” experienced America, you are going to see a LARGE concerted American Effort, going in completely the WRONG direction.  So you draw them down there, and if they don’t go, you are raking in extra IPC’s.

    Africa is a moot point in the game now…

    More thoughts later gtg…

    Neutrals that the allies will likely get for free.
    Afghanistan + 4 inf
    Mongolia - depending on state of war between Russia and Japan - + 6 inf
    Angola + 1 ipc + 2 inf
    Mozambique +1 IPC + 2 inf.



  • @Gargantua:

    Argentina, (LOL I know right)

    ?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    The thought is, build a minor in Argentina,  and the entirety of the U.S. force will come down there, out of position of anything else.



  • I tried it already:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20754.75

    It wasn’t one of my better games and I doubt it should be used as a guideline (think it was my third Global?)

    I wouldn’t recommend it under the current True Neutral rules unless Germany or Japan seriously sends some loaded transports and a carrier group to contest S. America (and be willing to invest in a minor IC as well).  It’s just too much bonus to the US with all those extra free infantry produced.  Japan could send a loaded transport(s) to take Chile on J3 in conjunction with an attack on Pearl Harbor; if Germany is threatening a Sealion and the US is built heavily into the Europe theater, it might work.  You could also try a combined assault with Germany attacking from Gibraltar on G3 to seize Brazil or Argentina while Japan invades Chile; if you combine both carrier groups together and both powers built minor ICs, it could tie up the US for quite a while.  It will also be a huge drain on the Axis war effort too, for a measly 8 S. American IPCs, but it might be worth it if it takes the US out of the war for another 4-5 turns.


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