FMG COMBAT UNITS - Rules: HEAVY ARMORED UNIT

  • '10

    Hello,
          As the first set is about to be released, I am getting a lot of questions from customers in regards to the expansion pieces we are including.  I am often asked “Will you include rules for these”.

    My initial idea was that the house rules of this forum would fill the gap, but many of my customers are not members.

    I have decided that I will include a print out of “Suggested Rules” for the expansion pieces.  The sheet will also include an invitation to this community and direction to the HOUSE RULE forum.

    I have opened this thread to discuss HEAVY ARMOR and expansion rules for their use.

    Please feel free to chime in as the BEST options will be posted in this handout.

    FMG COMBAT UNITS will have two armored units… Although not always “Tanks”

    This topic was suggested by Bob_A_Mickelson

  • '10

    Here was Bob’s initial Suggestion:

    I noticed that you added forum links for your new unit types but neglected to add one for your 2nd tank.

    Here is my suggestion for the 2nd tank. (note that this assumes that you will be using primary tanks for the 2nd sculpts. If your planning on using tank destroyers or even SPGs in most cases then perhaps this suggestion should be disregarded.

    For the record I am suggesting that one tank keep the AAG40 unit stats and the other be replaced with one of these 2 suggestions:

    Light Tank (Classic A&A Stats)
    Cost:5
    Attack:3
    Defense:2
    Move:2

    Can Blitz

    Heavy Tank
    Cost: 7 or 8
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3

    Can Blitz

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I prefer to call these Heavy Tanks or SPA ( self propelled artillery) and these would be:

    4-3-2 and cost 8 IPC.

    You can only build one of these at a time and can never have more than 6 at one time.

    They can have a special ability like if they hit an enemy armor class unit must get hit ( artillery, tank, mech), the cost might increase if you add this but perhaps not because of the 6 limit.

    Too many units employ a greater defensive potency in these games, but WW2 if anything demonstrated the efficiency of offensive lethality. WW1 was where inventions favored the defense.

    Thats why it cant be a 3-4 unit.

  • '10

    @FieldMarshalGames:

    Here was Bob’s initial Suggestion:

    I noticed that you added forum links for your new unit types but neglected to add one for your 2nd tank.

    Here is my suggestion for the 2nd tank. (note that this assumes that you will be using primary tanks for the 2nd sculpts. If your planning on using tank destroyers or even SPGs in most cases then perhaps this suggestion should be disregarded.

    For the record I am suggesting that one tank keep the AAG40 unit stats and the other be replaced with one of these 2 suggestions:

    Light Tank (Classic A&A Stats)
    Cost:5
    Attack:3
    Defense:2
    Move:2

    Can Blitz

    Heavy Tank
    Cost: 7 or 8
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3

    Can Blitz

    We have used these light and heavy tanks in our 1939 games with ILs map. Worked out good as listed here. Might be a good idea to limit the number of heavies as IL suggested.

  • Customizer

    In my opinion having a limit on the number of units a side can build seems to imply that the unit is over powered. Thats why limits are imposed. So rather than imposing a build limit, such a unit should either have its stats lowered or its price raised.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Well the glitch on allowing that is once a player gets rich ( after capturing a capital), he could spurge on these units and the game has no chance for recovery. These units are introducing new values and to allow the mass production of them makes them less “elite” or “special”

    The issue is nations should all have the opportunity to buy these and that be an equal one in order to facilitate their use in games. To make them expensive puts them out of reach and to make a no limitation on them places them as common units… they are nothing of the sort. Heavy Tanks are time intensive and technologically dependent units. These are not like “Liberty ships” rolling off the assembly line. At Kursk, Hitler waited for months just to get a few hundred of these specialized units and had to stockpile and postpone Kursk till he had what he figured was enough to punch the soviet fortified lines.

    I see two types of units: common and specialized. FMG is making replacement standard units, and also a number of these “special or elite” ones and a limitation of some sort seems correct and proper.

    A land unit that attacks at 4 is a major undertaking for the game, especially since its costing less than 10 IPC to build.

    The Waffen SS, Shock Armies, etc represent elite armor units and as such in the war these were very limited in terms of quantity so i don’t see why they should not have some limits and cost is not a barrier to purchase.


  • I agree with IL here. Production limitations are the way to go or the game will get out of hand quick. What about production limits based around some sort of achievments. Like you can only build heavy tanks if your ipc level is over a certain amount? If your ipc level drops below a certain level, you cant build. also what about maybe takes 2 turns to build?

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Well the tech tree needs to be reconfigured to include these units. Heavy tanks is the ultimate tank design and not easily done without heavy tech investment.

    Trucks could be a technology as well, most logistics were horse drawn and only mechanized armies had this capability.

    A perfect excuse to get rid of “advanced artillery” which was not even a significant war technology till much latter ( 1980’s)

    All the special units can become technologies. I am a bit surprised that jet fighters was not done as an alternate fighter sculpt.

  • '10

    Light Tank (Classic A&A Stats)
    Cost:5
    Attack:3
    Defense:2
    Move:2

    Can Blitz

    –-

    Heavy Tank
    Cost: 7 or 8
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3
    Move:2

    Can Blitz

    My personal house rule will be this, except the heavy tank will cost the same as a fighter since they are the same stats, only reversed. I won’t have any limitation system either, as I think the cost itself will be a limiter of sorts.

    And there will also be the decision making of whether it’s more worthwhile investing in planes or heavy tanks (or other units) depending on the situation.


  • Light Tank (Classic A&A Stats)
    Cost:5
    Attack:3
    Defense:2
    Move:2

    Can Blitz

    Heavy Tank
    Cost: 7 or 8
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 3

    Can Blitz

    I like this, though slight modifications might be necessary depending on nation specifics.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    All nations should have the same values for these units. The rules must apply to all equally or you need alot of playtesting to determine balancing issues.


  • Maybe we could change the type of dice we use so that we have larger gaps between heavy and light tanks. Maybe we could use d8 or 10


  • Sorry IL, by “nation specifics” I meant the type of units that end up being manufactured by FMG. I believe some might get an extra variant of tank, mech etc. By all means make the same units have the same stats.


  • I’d keep the regular armor the same and give Heavy tanks the following stats

    Move: 2
    Attack: 4
    Defense: 4
    Cost: 10 ipcs
    Special: can blitz

    At 10 ipcs the would cost about enough that I don’t think there would be a need to place a limit on the purchases per turn.


  • I agree with dannyboy. That seems like a good system.

  • '14

    @The:

    Maybe we could change the type of dice we use so that we have larger gaps between heavy and light tanks. Maybe we could use d8 or 10

    We are using a D12 system and it works really good!!

  • '10

    I like the idea of the light TANK being like Classic AAA (3/2/2 5 IPC)  and the Heavy TANK representing the New rules (3/3/2 6 IPC)

    Some times you just have that extra IPC!  It has been said on this forum that the 6 IPC tank was the death-nell of Armour in AAA.  This may save it?


  • These rules seem pretty good I really like Dannyboy’s ideas I was wondering thought where the heavy tanks would start on the map?

  • '10

    @spartan:

    These rules seem pretty good I really like Dannyboy’s ideas I was wondering thought where the heavy tanks would start on the map?

    This has really turned into a “Light Tank” rule, rather than a “Heavy Tank” rule.  This gives an option for a less expensive less powerful Tank.  All starting Tanks would be considered Heavy.


  • I dislike the idea of having the heavy tanks simply have the stats and cost of tanks. The point is they are better than normal tanks.  I think the 8 IPC 4/3/2 is a good idea, and they should be unlocked by a tech.  Starting all tanks as heavy tanks is not historical.  The Italians and Japanese never really deployed heavy tanks, and the allies did not use them until the end of the war.  In 1940 the Germans were not using heavy tanks and, I may be wrong on this one, neither were the Soviets.

  • '14

    @dadler12:

    I dislike the idea of having the heavy tanks simply have the stats and cost of tanks. The point is they are better than normal tanks.  I think the 8 IPC 4/3/2 is a good idea, and they should be unlocked by a tech.  Starting all tanks as heavy tanks is not historical.  The Italians and Japanese never really deployed heavy tanks, and the allies did not use them until the end of the war.  In 1940 the Germans were not using heavy tanks and, I may be wrong on this one, neither were the Soviets.

    I agree…

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yea light tanks should be: 3-2-2-5, Regular 3-3-2-6, and Heavy 4-3-2-8

    another option is your heavy tank is a SPA or tank destroyer so allow it to ‘hunt’ enemy land units ( if it hits the targeted unit, it is removed)

    You should be required to buy a number of tanks of each type before you go to a higher level. You start with light tanks, and if you build say 5, you can then build regular and after buying 5 more of these , can buy heavies. not tech dependent, just build dependent.


  • @Imperious:

    Yea light tanks should be: 3-2-2-5, Regular 3-3-2-6, and Heavy 4-3-2-8

    another option is your heavy tank is a SPA or tank destroyer so allow it to ‘hunt’ enemy land units ( if it hits the targeted unit, it is removed)

    You should be required to buy a number of tanks of each type before you go to a higher level. You start with light tanks, and if you build say 5, you can then build regular and after buying 5 more of these , can buy heavies. not tech dependent, just build dependent.

    I like this idea, but what pieces are you using for light tanks?  I have both sets of 1940, 42, and I ordered FMG Italy and plan to buy all the nations but it looks like light tanks are not being produced for some nations.


  • I agree with the Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor rules, however, the heavy armor of WWII were as their name implies: Heavy.  This meant that they were very slow moving and were mainly used as a defense by Hitler.  Therefore, I think that their stats should be 4/4/1/8, and they take 2 hits of damage and can be repaired at a friendly IC. 
    Also, I think that all nations but Germany should start the game with Light tanks as the placement.  Italy’s tanks were so inferior that Rommel was disgusted with them.  The Japanese and Americans needed light tanks to go through the tight jungle terrains.  The UK and French tanks were easily overwhelmed during the German invasion of France in 1940, as they were lightly gunned and intended for close infantry support.  The Russians had to adapt their tanks into what was considered the best medium tank of the war.  But that was not until like 1941, during the German invasion of Russia.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    light tanks should be: 2-3-2-5, Regular 3-3-2-6, and Heavy 4-3-**(1)**2-8  ( note: correction)––SPA can be 3-2-2-5

    Right, in addition heavy tanks cant blitz in combat.

    This may mean a reduction in cost back to 7, but that is unclear.

    I would make all but a few France tanks LIGHT.

    Most of the German tanks would be MEDIUM, or if they are light i would give them +1 attack for the first two turns representing advanced tactics.

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